They might handle it better than me.

Blindsided,

It's not that big of a deal, so don't fret so much. Your kids will probably enjoy a 'vacation' with grandparents. Like kilted my wife and I used to send our son on a plane for a week's visit with her parents for several summers and all of them really enjoyed. He was about the same age as your oldest daughter at the time. If you can't get your truck repaired, just call them every night. And, look at it this way - it's two weeks for them to be away from the POSOM!

Tom

I'll see how they do the first week and decide if I should go out, but at the same time it would be hard on them if I did go out and not take them with me. Although I will say that the end of this month is end of contract for me, and I have not heard anything about that happens July 1. So I may end up having the time off, but I just don't know yet.

On a totally different topic - and this might be verbose - I was talking to a new female acquaintance about this whole ordeal I am going through, and I was telling her about some of the stuff my mother did when I was staying with them. She told me how similar it was to her own mother, who is has a narcissistic personality. So I decided to google it and do some reading, and what I found was simply astounding.

I have never been to a therapist for anything until the marriage counselor those three visits. I have known for a very long time that my parents are very dysfunctional people. My mother was born deaf and had a very old-schooldisciplinarian father (children should be seen and not heard) who would use physical punishment beyond spanking even when she was a little girl. Add to that the fact that she was deaf and was never treated as 'normal'.

My father lost his mother at age 6. He and his brothers were raised in a boys' home because their father worked too much. They would see him on weekends. My father is not an emotional person, except that he is very quick to anger, and expresses it violently sometimes - throwing things, yelling, etc.

I'll spare you all the details of my childhood but suffice to say there were welts on my legs from leather belts, followed many times by an apology for snapping and punishing out of sheer anger. I do not recall my parents being very affectionate. Maybe when I was little, but certainly not as I got older.

When I stayed with my parents last year when I was separated, I tried very hard to create as little a footprint there as I could. I didn't want to be there, they did not want me there, and my mother immediately began to make attempts to CONTROL me. Then when I did not do as she wished fast enough for her, she would resort to passive-aggressive behavior - she would hide their DSL modem so I could not use the internet. I used it for watching netflix, to stay in my room and out of their way, and also to look for work. I looked for jobs daily, and as you know, that is all pretty much done online now.

I began to realize that a lot of my behaviors are probably the result of having a controlling mother, borderline narcissistic, perhaps, and very pessimistic. Because of the constant negativity (now you see where I get it) from her, my self-worth is usually very low. I was seldom told that I could succeed at anything I wanted to do. She always referrers to herself as a "realist" and told me things like "Oh, that's really hard, I don't think you could do that." In fact, when I was in my mid 30s, I went skydiving, and the next time I saw her, she actually said "I didn't think you would do it." Negative. Never believed in me, ever.

So I developed this problem with my self-esteem, and was sometimes angry. More so when my life was falling apart. That part is under control now, though. Even though I have all these problems with my mother, my natural personality is more laid-back and happy/positive. It's only when people around me scapegoat me and accuse me of things that are untrue, and blame me for things that aren't entirely my fault, I get depressed easily. I fall back into being that angry [censored] that I was in my teens. The guy I got rid of when I was in college and didn't come back until my new wife and I moved in with my parents.

I think that when I was exposed to my mother's negativity and controlling tendencies, those old defensive behaviors came out a little bit - the frustration and anger toward my mother - and my (x)wife saw THAT guy. I think from that point forward she thought I was that guy all the time, which is not the case.

One thing that congealed this theory for me was last Friday when I went to pick up my girls from my parents' house. I had not seen my parents since October - 8 months. I kid you not, I was there a half hour and my mother started trying to control me again - I was saying something about my xW (an opinion of all things) and she started pointing out how I was WRONG about my own opinion. My blood pressure must have gone through the roof. I have been pretty calm and collected, and anger-free (despite what you may think from my writings here). I HAD to get out of there. She makes me feel worthless, and I swear she HAS to do that to make herself feel better.

I think my upbringing in this environment also has a lot do to with the various ways I have dealt with the fact the my wife was always unhappy and how I withdrew from her rather than made more of an effort to get to the crux of the issue. How I externalized our problems and thought that the stress of the business and my not having a job were the causes of our problems. How I handled the separation and divorce - I isolated myself from it rather than deal with it. When she blamed me for the things she blamed me for, without taking any responsibility herself. I spiraled into a depression and felt utterly worthless.

I don't know how many armchair shrinks are here, but I thought I would share these revelations to see what you have to say. I can also say that knowing all of this (which I already sorta knew in an unspecific, undefined way), I would be able to be a much better husband and father. I DO want my family together.

On the other hand, I am wondering if my xW has some of the same tendencies that my mother has, because she does blame me for everything, and she has and does treat me like crap rather than be supportive of me. As you know, men tend to define themselves and measure their worth by their work and ability to provide for their family, and I am no different. As much as I'd like to think otherwise.

I will close with this: Of the emotional needs that Dr. Harley has described, I can tell you without a doubt that my #1 is affirmation. I don't really need a lot of it, either, just a reminder now and then that I am appreciated. But the opposite of it destroys me.

Cheers.

Blindsided,

Well, a better and more experienced person than me would need to comment on you post, except to say that I believe that it's never wrong to do some self reflection.

On the other hand,I believe that, and I say this believing that you're a God-loving person (NOT God-fearing) God helps each of us through other people - and not directly interceding. I think you have a lot of people here who are trying to intercede on your behalf, but maybe you're not listening enuff! Just want to relay a simple thing that happened to me today. Went to my volunteer thing today, and even tho very cloudy took my sunglasses and left them at a store I was at. This evening went to the grocery store taking my bike and safety glasses I wear when riding, and wouldn't you know it, put them on the handle bars of the bile before I went in, and took off without putting them back on. Got half way home and realized I didn't have them. It then started raining a little, not hard but just irritating, but I decided to retrace my route to see if I could find them while using my choice of profanity at having lots two pair of glasses in a single day. Got back to the store after not seeing them on the route back, asked a clerk if anyone may have found them, and yeah she handed them to me explaining someone brought them in, but the lens is detached (they must have fallen off my bike when I took off). Okay, felt a little relieved, but was out in front of the store trying to reattach the lens when a guy got out of his truck nearby, walked up and handed me a pair of glasses saying "Would you like a pair of these. I get them free at work". Unbelievable! I thanked him and he just took off, but I now have a pair of tinted industrial wrap-around safety glasses that are better than either pair I lost today! Go figure Blindsided. So, my experience today prompts me again to realize that none of us are truly alone, This is just a simple little thing - am sure Donald Trump or many others wouldn't worry about losing a pair of glasses - but to me it was pretty powerful.

Tom

I can relate to your experience, actually. I have had little things like that happen that don't seem like much on the surface, but are profound when they happen, because they seem to happen when you need them to. Any other time and you'd think "well, that was lucky".

I appreciate everything that people say on this site, and don't think that I am not listening. I might push back out of frustration or whatever, but I listen. I am hoping sometime I can come here and tell you all that it worked and that have my family back. I can say without hesitation that if that were to happen, I am far better equipped to be a better person and treat my xW the way she needs.

Similarly, I am trying to put the xW/POSOM's NY trip in a positive light by thinking that maybe the time together will reveal some things about this guy that makes her think twice about what she is doing. Maybe being back in our hometown gets her thinking about our early days, and clears the fog a bit. All I know is that the peripheral evidence that I am hearing about and seeing is that her relationship with this guy is not what she thought it might be. It is apparent that she is not really happy. I am going to make more of an effort to Plan A and reach out a little more. I'll send her pictures of the girls when they are with me, mention silly things they do, include her in my experiences with them a little bit, that sort of thing.

Had a very productive meeting with my engineer this afternoon. We have decided that it is time to bring investor money in and create the company as a legal entity - a huge step. I went through the remainder of the design with him and his confidence level has increased a LOT. We are very very close to having parts made and prototypes built - a couple weeks probably.

OMG it is pointless...

So I go to drop the girls off at the usual location - the parking lot away from the store entrance not he south side. Always the same place. I get a text from her when I am on my way:

"Getting groceries. Message me when you're here and I'll come out."

Okay.. I assumed that she would come out when she was DONE, like usual. She will message me that she's at the checkout or whatever, and she comes out AFTER she is done.

I get to the lot and her car is not at the usual place. I drive around and finally find her car at the north end of the lot, and the POSOM's car is parked right next to hers. I am not up for a chummy meet and greet, now - or ever. I think we can all agree on why.

I pull around to the other end of the lot - the usual place - and I text her: "I am at the usual spot".

"Can you pull up to the front" she responds.

At this point, I don't know what she means, really. She doesn't specify which door, nothing. I don't know if the POSOM is with her. I respond "You can come by here, yourself'. Again, I figure I am cooling my heels until she is done and she will drive around. She didn't respond with "I am not done shopping and I want to meet you by the door and get the girls." Oh, okay, well that's not a problem. Didn't get that far. I am the mind reader, remember? She said nothing after that.

Please understand that I am not trying to be difficult. I am not interested in meeting her incubus, that's all. He is not part of my equation and never will be.

I am sitting in my truck waiting for her to finish, and I see her wheeling a cart up from the entrance. When she gets to us, she is furious. She flings the door open and grabs the girls, kinda violently, and plops them in the cart, grabs their stuff from me and turns on her heel and starts to take off. As she is stomping off, she tells me "That's why, right there. That's why."

Alrighty then. So no Plan A tonight I guess. I didn't den say anything, except that she could come to the usual spot. See how pissed she was that I did not bend to her will? I swear to you people I think she has a narcissistic personality like my mother. The more I learn about these things the more all the pieces are fitting together, and the more I feel like I am not the only a**hole in this situation.

I didn't do anything wrong tonight. I do not need to meet the POS incubus, and there is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise.

And just for reference, I am not angry or anything, so keep that in mind if you feel like flaming me. I am cool as a cucumber right now. Just shaking my head at this.

I guess you're all ignoring me now. You all want me to do certain things that are extremely difficult in my situation and you want to hear nothing but positive status reports, I get it.

I had a meeting about my employment status yesterday, and I emailed the xW that I would be taking the girls for one week and her parents would get them the following week. Of course she has a problem with that because she's probably still mad at me for Sunday evening, and she loves to be passive-aggressive. No consideration for our daughters - just that "her parents don't see them very much", as if their own father sees them enough. I honestly believe that she regrets having kids, as they are in daycare or with me the majority of the time. She has her days free, and every Saturday and every other Sunday. She has taken many weekend trips with POSOM while I haven't been out of the immediate area in at least two years. Now she is off to NY for two weeks with no parental responsibilities.

/rant.

Are you wanting people to feel sorry for you?

You are in the situation you have created for yourself, you are not following the MB plan and don't listen to advice.
What is anyone supposed to tell you?

You should not use texting as your method of communication with her - because it is too easy to infer or make judgements about tone and meaning.

You could have simply driven up to the front door of the store, and she could have taken your daughters in to finish her shopping.

You decided to play some kind of game with: "You can come by here, yourself" If I were in her shoes, I would not have taken this well either. It seems like you're trying to make some kind of a point. You didn't make it clear that you were willing to be patient while she finished shopping. Its not clear that you weren't being snarky. It is clear that you're sending some type of hidden message with "yourself".

If you insist on communicating by text, you need to learn how to PLAN A BY TEXT.

This was YOUR failure, not hers.

All I read was I guess you're all ignoring me now. Then I stopped. The rest is probably the self defeating stuff I like to post.
Head up keep it up

That is not accurate. As I said before, we have a routine. Those times when she is in the store shopping before I get there, I wait in the parking lot until she gets done, and vice versa. Never in our history have I dropped them off at the door so she could take them inside. She was already inside shopping - she TOLD me this before I even got there. When she asked me to come up front, I thought she was DONE shopping and going to her car and that she wanted me to drive to her. I simply specified that the usual place was fine.

She wants to rub my nose in the POSOM's presence. She has been bringing him around to punish me for something she is obviously still mad at me for - probably "making" her cheat. I don't need to meet this POS, now or ever. He was in my house getting comfy on my sofa with my kids int he next room, with my WIFE, who was NOT single and struggling to raise 2 kids alone like she told him. She lied to HIM too. Not sure if I mentioned that.

There was no game-playing going on. I misunderstood her request. If she had remained calm and been more specific rather than stoping around like a child, I would have taken them to the door like she asked.

You are reading way too much into it.

I have a lunch date tomorrow with a coworker. The other day the gorgeous woman who cuts my hair told me that if she didn't have a boyfriend, she'd date me and she was not joking. I am apparently becoming more appealing to women and that can be nothing but my changed attitude, like I have been trying to tell you all.

Blindsided, the majority of this post is about your xW. You talk about how she is probably still mad at you, she is passive-aggressive, regrets having kids and takes all kinds of trips while having no parental responsibilities. You focus on what you think she thinks and what she is doing, however, you have no control over either.

Honestly you will start to feel better if you focus on you and what you do instead of her. Live your life by your values, establish your boundaries and enforce them. It doesn't matter what she thinks or does. You are divorced and she is free to make her own choices (she was free to do that when married too).

You try to control her actions because you don't like what she is doing. I can understand that. The problem is, the harder you try to control her, the more she will resist.

You say you want to have a relationship with her again someday. If that is to ever happen, she needs to see different behavior from you. You aren't giving her any reason right now to move in that direction. As you may know, the definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expect different results.

The advice you have been given on this forum is spot on. Right now, you just don't want to accept it or listen to it. That is ok as that is your choice. Just know that by choosing to continue to interact with your xW the way you are will continue to cause her to stay away from you.

Things will never be the way they were with your xW. That is a good thing as it did not work that way. Embrace the opportunity to possibly have a better relationship by focusing on you. You can't have a better two without a better you. Once you stop resisting things will flow effortlessly.

What would you suggest I do going forward? Keep in mind that I am not meeting the POSOM under any circumstances. That is my one caveat.

I TRY to Plan A, when I get opportunities, but those are few. Plan B is out of the question until I can afford to hire a personal assistant.

? This is your problem right here. You are already divorced, you have already missed your window to Plan A, you have already LBusted too much, etc...

Plan B is your best option to ever try and re-establish your marriage and it is your best option for you to move on and recover yourself. There is no valid reason I have seen you state on this board why Plan B is impossible. Continuing Plan BSNM is going to keep you right where you are.

I know I'm hard on you but its because you are stubborn, don't listen to anybody (it seems as though you feel you know best) and worst of all you keep sinking repeatedly and fail to change anything and follow the advice. You are so frustrating to deal with because its like you don't realize your actions are making everything worse and worse and you refuse to acknowledge that.

There is no one to act as an IM for a plan B. I cannot magically create a situation where that will happen. NO ONE. understand? This is not me "being stubborn". There is not one person or church or day care or family member or friend.

You need to leave her alone.

I've made a decision. Plan B. With her and the girls. No contact with any of them. POSOM can raise them.

I'm done.

I would suggest you just Plan B the wife, not your daughters.

And get treated for depression so that you can be a father to them.

By the way, this is a complete repeat of something you posted before.

I once had a coworker that used to stop by my office every day. He had experienced a bitter divorce and said many of the same things about his ex that you do. I would suggest to him that he needed to move on in his life. He would say he was going to do all sorts of extreme things. He continued this for over 20 years. I even directed him to Dr. Harley's materials. Nothing mattered. I ended up retiring. He is probably still at it.

Is that the life you want? If not, then resolve to recover. Plan B your wife. Develop a relationship with your children that stands on its own. Stop feeling sorry for yourself, and get on with life.

That, or go find some poor sap who is willing to listen to you complain for the next 20 years.

I cannot Plan B the xW by herself.

THERE IS NO ONE TO ACT AS AN INTERMEDIARY. UNDERSTAND??

I cannot wave my hands in the air like Jesus and make miracles happen. I have to see this creature if I want to see my kids. I WOULD LOVE TO PLAN B this lying, selfish POS. I tried to do that in the beginning.Therefore, I have to cut ties with all three. I cannot do this any more.

Also, I am not depressed any more, as I said. Just very tired of dealing with her tantrums and constant belittling, just like we are still married. If I am to "move on", I need to get the f*** away from her.