I didn't see in your story how your W met the other man. I know he lives close by but how did they meet and how did the affair begin?

I believe they met through their children. Their teenagers were dating each other.

How does her getting a job and hiding the money build trust? Sounds like the opposite to me.

This makes me think of two posters from the past. The first is Bigkahuna who rented out his house and moved his family away. His marriage is now recovered.

The second is Mike who killed the affair but refused to move. Two years later he was still being triggered by his surroundings and accidental sightings of OM. Although he did not divorce, Mike did not seem to be happy or recovered.


I know that you do not want to move...but staying in the scene of the crime will keep you stuck in the hurt betrayal and make it impossible for you to recover.


Your wife seems to be aware of your spying so it is very possible that she and OM have just gotten smarter at hiding. It sounds like OM is pretty self righteous, so I would be surprised if he is not still pursuing your wife. He certainly has plenty of opportunity given that the conditions that made the affair possible have not been eliminated.

My story is very similiar to yours and really hits home. Seriously, you need to find a way to get your family out of there.

You cannot control OM and he is free to drive by your house and attend any school function that he likes.

The only thing you can control is yourself. So take control of your life and make it impossible for OM to make anymore contact.

When my wife had her affair, we did move. It was not convenient. Moving never is. But it was essential to our recovery.

The most important thing you have to do is to protect is your marriage. Your financial stake in your house should not take precedence. When you allow your financial worries to trump your marriage, you send a message to your wife that she is less important and that you don't care about her. She HAS to get away from this guy or the affair will not end! That is the simple truth. So choose: Stay where you are and get a divorce, or move and recover your marriage. There is no other advice we can offer.

I did listen to your call with Dr Harley over lunch. Dr Harley mentioned many benefits to moving besides just ensuring the affair is over and won't reignite with this guy. Triggers was a big one, and this OM is the ultimate trigger for both of you. He even mentioned how the colors in a room or the way the grass in your yard looks can keep you in the same patterns of behavior you are used to.

He also predicted that you would probably never get out of the depressing situation you find yourself in unless you moved.

I know you say you can't / won't move because of financial considerations, but I ask you this: What would you give up to repair you marriage and have the feelings that you are currently feeling fade into the past? It seems you have been trying it your way for awhile now and it isn't working.

I also heard Dr Harley suggest that you see an attorney and explain that you were considering leaving but did not want to abandon your children. Did you ever do this? He suggested that you may have to move yourself if your wife refused to join you.

Have you listened to your own show recently?

The reason why her getting a job has helped build some trust is that we now leave the house at the same time each morning, her entire day is accountable, and when she arrives at home at the end of each day my children are home. I know exactly how long it takes for her to commute.

We spend the evenings and weekends together. She takes one of the girls with her if she goes to the store, etc.... She really has no free time anymore in which she is unaccountable, so in the sense that Dr. Harley recommends the WS account for every minute of each day, she is doing so, and it does build trust.

As for the money she earns: I have learned a lot about her emotional needs (as Dr. Harley suggests a BS do). Her biggest needs are financial support and family commitment. At the critical point in our marriage when the affair began, we were hitting rock bottom financially. My business was failing, all our savings was used up, and ultimately we had to file bankruptcy (that would have been a good time to dump the house). We even resorted to food stamps for a short period.

My wife was raised very wealthy. When we first married, we had an agreement that she would not work, and would stay home to raise our children. My financial failure was a major love buster. I now have a decent job, but it's still not quite enough to get by. She uses her income to pay for all our groceries, the children's extra curricular activities, clothing, as well as entertainment and traveling.

Even though I don't see her money flow through our joint account, I do see how it is spent.

As for taking the hit on the house: Like I said, we are underwater big time. In retrospect, I wish that we had dumped it when we filed bankruptcy. I have no savings, I have no discretionary income, I cannot file bankruptcy again for several years. I can't rent it and even come close to the meeting the mortgage. It is what it is, and I have to work with that for the time being.

The OM and my wife met when my daughter and his son began going to the same school. My wife would wait in the parking lot for school to get out and he would do the same. They began having conversations, etc....

As for the affair going deep underground, maybe, but highly doubtful. I know she fooled me for a long time, but then again I wasn't paying attention, and I had complete faith in her.

Yes, I did listen to the show again. Since financial support is a top emotional need and losing the house would once again put us in financial distress, I am not willing to do it. The massive new debt would put us back to square one.

My wife has told me that she feels I am now meeting her emotional needs, with only the exception that I am trying to be too affectionate to fast, and talking too much about our problems.

I recall Dr. Harley talking about pushing to hard or being too needy and making the WS resentful. I think this may be what I have done.

After I found out about the affair, I would switch from trying to be the best husband possible one day to being a walking nightmare the next, and I have only recently been able to stop with the disrespectful judgments and angry outbursts. I admit that I want to fix our marriage "right now", and I have been so adamant that when I don't see progress within a few days I would go off the deep end emotionally.

After listening to the show again this morning I realized that I really never stopped the love busters. Off air, Dr. Harley recommended that I NOT leave until I had gone at least one month without committing a love buster. I was never able to do it.

I did not contact a lawyer; I can't afford one. I have spoken with the children about living with me elsewhere and my 18yr old said she would like that, but the other two will not.

OK I can see why you feel that builds trust. Especially if you verify her whereabouts as you say you do.



Financial Support and Family Commitment are not intimate emotional needs though. It is not uncommon at all for a spouse the is withdrawn to list non-intimate needs highly, but do understand that providing FS and FC will not make her fall in love with you. Intimate Conversation, Affection, Recreational Companionship, and Sexual Fulfillment are the intimate emotional needs that trigger love.


I still say you are focused on the wrong thing here. Financial commitment may be important to your wife, but according to you, the OM won her heart by simply having conversations with her...




But do you have access to the bank account to see what is deposited and what is spent? You are missing a step here if you don't have this transparency.



But don't you see you are trading keeping the house for a failed marriage? You can't have both. I know you want to find a way to have both, but you simply can't. You've tried that and it isn't working.


Investigate that bank account you have no access to.

Let me correct a couple of things for you:


There's nothing in the world wrong with wanting your marriage fixed immediately. Who doesn't? There's nothing in the world wrong with wanting your emotional needs met, and wanting to not be subjected to love busters, and have a happy lifestyle.

And there's nothing in the world wrong with expressing this desire. Any normal person would feel this way.

But if your chosen response to this feeling is to fight (to become demanding, disrespectful, or angry), you are going to make it less likely that you will ever get what you want, and make your problem worse.

Instead of becoming demanding, disrespectful, or angry about your problems, complain about your problems: make thoughtful requests and complaints to your spouse. Get rid of all attempt to force her to respond.

Demands, disrespect, and anger are ONE POSSIBLE RESPONSE to frustration. They are a very counterproductive response. You can learn a new response if you will invest effort into learning and following this program.

Another correction:

Do you own the book Love Busters? Have you read it? Have you followed the procedures in the selfish demands, disrespectful judgments, and angry outburst chapters?

Here is an article that may help you:
How to Negotiate When You Are an Emotional Person

Consider that you've never been able to do it because of the environment you are in. I don't think I could be consistently calm either if the OM was living a quarter mile away.

I know you don't want to hear that you have to get out of there. I do emphasize with your situation. I don't even know if I would be able to do it either if I were in your shoes, but I can see looking in from the from the outside that it's what should be done, especially after hearing Dr Harley explain it so well. He is the expert after all and has a lot of success under his belt.

Markos, Your edits are so true. I have seen in myself an inability to follow Dr. Harley's principles, and I must say it has been very difficult. I am really trying, but I need to try harder.

One of the things my wife tells me is that I am very demanding and controlling. I want what I want right now.

My pastor told me that it would be a marathon, not a sprint. I've heard the saying before, but it is so true...

I have read Love Busters a couple of times. I have followed the procedures on selfish demands, disrespectful judgments, and angry outbursts. But I haven't been steadfast.

My wife and I have begun having those intimate conversations. We do not give ourselves 15 hours a week undivided attention. We spend much more time together than that, but not without children. We try to have dinner out by ourselves a couple times a week, but that is really it.

We have only made love three times since D-day. My wife has medical issues that have kept us from being intimate in the last few months, but she had surgery last month and soon will be cleared for sex again. I have told her how important that is to me and she understands, but it has been very difficult.

Of course it is. You are still Lovebusting her and are not giving her at least 15 hours of your undivided attention. Why would you expect sex to be easy?

Oops.


I posted a link to an article that can get you started on one of the things you need to be doing to make it possible to do this.


Of course it is different when you don't follow the training program Dr. Harley describes to establish the new habits. Habits are easy. Establishing habits without following the instructions to establish them or without even reading the instructions is difficult!


What did your wife write on your love busters worksheet for this past week?

(Hint: if you guys aren't filling out worksheets, you are deceiving yourself and aren't following the procedures. If you don't even know what the worksheets are or how to use them, you don't know what the procedures are and need to read Love Busters more slowly and find them.)

I also recommend that you take FightTheFight's MAGNIFICENT advice. He is not steering you wrong here, and can help you IMMENSELY if you will listen to him and follow the recommendations he is giving you.

Pay close attention - this is as good as having Dr. Harley himself here posting to you.

I have read the books, done the worksheets, but she refuses. She says it is another one of my demands.

I will read lovebusters again. I will "make the choice" to work at following Dr. Harley's procedures and get it right. I will also focus my attention on the emotional needs that she will allow me to meet at the moment. Intimate conversation being the primary.

I am attempting to make some weekend plans so that we can get away by ourselves for at least a couple days. Should I ask her, or should I just make the plans and hope that she is in agreement? I worry because she always seems to find an excuse to stay at home on weekends. She is putting all her focus on the children.

That's her giving you feedback - you are making a demand.

And why do you not move?

Better to lose money then your mental health and marriage.

Move and rent out your house till you can sell it.