Wow, everything is about you, you and you. Do you realize that? What about your H, what about the pain, isolation, loneliness and humiliation he is having to bear?

Do you even understand any feelings he might be feeling all while getting sarcasm and blame from you?

You are right I am not seeing that and I have been more and more every day. I appreciate all of the advice, I do not think there needs to be such extremes, such as telling me I'm dangerous and shouldn't have my kids and they should uprooted from their whole extended family and moved to a different state. I will talk to DR Harley soon and then continue reading his books and following this plan to regain trust and work on our issues, but I am not going to reply to any more of those comments.

That is your opinion and you can have that, I am assuming most of the comments are from people who have been hurt and are still pretty bitter and I get that. I came on here with the advice of my mom who has her PHD in psychology, but I am seeing there is a reason I have never been big on public forums.

I was not the betrayed spouse. I had an emotional affair, just like you. I'm not telling you anything that I haven't had to face myself. What I have told you is not out of bitterness. I'm pointing to the way out of this mess, because I've been there, we followed Dr. Harley's plan, and we recovered. We stick around the board to help others NOT because we're bitter, but because we care and we want to help.

We know how to recover your marriage. It's up to you if you want to do the work.

Have you had a chance to write that No Contact letter yet?

This is one of those vital steps that cannot be skipped.

With all due respect, you are the only bitter person we have seen on this thread. And it is to an extreme degree because you do not have an objective view of your situation. This is why these posts are so hard for you to read. Your head is still very much in the fog, which makes it very difficult for you to hear objective observations from outsiders.

You don't like the forum, of course, because they won't tell you what you want to hear. And quite frankly, no caring responsible person is going to tell you what you want to hear.

You have been very destructive to yourself, your husband and your children and we are not going to gloss that over for you.

Okay, so you're now to the predictable stage of calling everybody bitter. Happens every time.

For the record, the only courses of action advised on this board are those that were developed by Dr. Harley in his practice. He did successfully counsel marriages for decades, with a specialty in infidelity, is actually a psychologist (he ran a large chain of mental health clinics in Minnesota), and is actually qualified to help people recover from infidelity. When people show up pushing their own ideas and personal opinions, conflicting with Dr. Harley's successful plans, those opinions are edited out by the board moderators. What you're hearing is not the personal opinions of bitter people - you are hearing the counsel of Dr. Harley, from those of us who have used his successful advice to recover from the damage our own personal opinions did to our marriages.

Nothing bitter about Dr. Harley - neither he nor his wife Joyce have ever been unfaithful. But it turns out that, of the 20% of marriages that are actually lifelong successful and happy, the things those people do prevent infidelity, recover from infidelity, and ensure a happy marriage. MOST people (80%) take a path that ruins their marriages.

It's your life to live - if you want to be part of the 80% that follows their instincts instead of paying attention to what works and what doesn't, be our guest. For the sake of your children and your husband and yourself, though, I would encourage you to give some real consideration to what you are hearing instead of stooping to disrespectful namecalling so you can justify ignoring what you are hearing.

Remember, we are here to help. Take a look at some of the dates next to the names of the people that are posting to you. Take a look at some of the post counts. Some people here have been doing this a long time and have seen many marriages succeed and fail. And they've been listening to the expert, Dr. Harley, during that time and studying hard so that they can help themselves and other people.

Out of curiosity - you've been here three days now. There've been two broadcasts of the Marriage Builders Radio show - two hours of free help from an actual successful marriage counselor, Dr. Harley. Have you listened to either one of them? Bought or borrowed a single Marriage Builders book?

I believe I've asked twice now if you have the book Surviving an Affair, and I don't think there's been an answer. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. Please note that trying to recover from an affair using Dr. Harley's other books but ignoring this one is typically not very successful.

Would you answer this?

Bitter?

Oh sweetheart, it's so easy for betrayed spouses to evict all bitterness and embrace happiness. Either the bitterness starts behaving itself, stops hurting you or you get the garbage bags, divorce lawyer and locksmith on the move. Then you change your contact details and never have anything to do with them ever again, making room for a nicer, more caring person. Who thinks it's crazy to cheat on you. Simple steps to happiness.

We'd like you to be happy too. You're headed for disaster. Dr Love will dump you and no decent man will touch a cheating wife. You have a chance to avoid all that. Drop the bitter, angry, venomous act before your BH does. He doesn't have to accept this, he remains eligible to date others - you don't.

So what did you think of Dr. Harley's advice for you on the radio program today?

Sounded pretty positive to me!

That's because you were perfectly vile to him, blew your cover completely and now he's on to you, like everybody here is. If your own family haven't figured it out yet - give them time.

Your H astutely noticed (as did we) that your affair is very much on. You are being a giant PITA to him for that very reason and he is too smart to fall for it. He knows that a 20 mile detour isn't going to stop the A and that you probably have a secret A phone too. He used the word "vehement" not remorseful to describe your attitude and I would say he was right on the money about you.

When a WW is being vehement, dramatic and calling everybody bitter, she isn't concerned about a simple course of study. No she is concerned about the playah professor she is misfortunate enough to have an attachment to.

Don't worry, Your DH won't be gone long. He will be consulting a lawyer soon who will be advising him how to get full custody and how to keep a WW's unsuitable boyfriends away from his children.

After he has divorced you, cute young things will be lining up around the block for him. Committed men who are good fathers, who tried to fight their wife's affair are rare creatures. His dates will think they have found the last nice guy alive.

Meantime nice men will be backing away when they hear your story (or find you out). The not so nice men will use you as the playah prof did. Your H will be able to afford a comfortable family home with his second wife's aid or support. If you continue your education and get a job he might even be able to get alimony from you in the meantime.



You had better get used to that, but probably in a smaller place than you are accustomed to. Betrayed H's are advised to have nothing to do with WW's they divorce ever again and not to provide them with anything they don't have to. You won't even be able to get him on the phone. The children will be dropped off at a relatives for you to pick the up on set days. Then you will be on your own.

How long do you think it will take Professor Playah to dump you when he realises you are a needy single mom instead of someone just looking for a bit of fun?

Indiegirl did you listen to the radio show... I'm a little bit confused about how the advice on this forum has been VERY different from what Dr. Harley suggested... The affair part was barely discussed on air. He talked more about her husband's mental illness and that he needed treatment since he has threatened to commit suicide two different times. He is also pretty explosive. Not saying this justifies the affair.

They are also working on a plan. She sounded very reasonable on the air and how she didn't want a stepfather for the kids and such. They are working on a plan for her schooling to change. But part of the problem is that her husband has NEVER been a willing partner in negotiation, probably partly because of his severe depression/mental illness.

I'm going by what she herself has told us. She isn't willing to leave school and commit to PoJA. If her schooling isn't PoJA'd she has chosen school over her marriage. Under PoJA, even without any affair, it is acceptable for her H to ask her to not go to school against his wishes. She chose school. It's her choice of course, I just don't think it is going to work out happily for her.

Even if her marital past has influenced the decision to not choose recovery - that still leaves her with a pretty big problem. No H to help her raise her twins and no likelihood of meeting a nice guy willing to overlook her past.

Also, even if she was willing to leave school and do recovery 100 pc her H doesn't have to recover with her. He doesn't have to negotiate with her. So he's off.

He can freely choose to leave at any time and not recover from this A. Which he has chosen to do. He isn't willing to 'negotiate' which is awfully smart of him. He must be a very quick MB study to have understood this so quickly.

Recovery conditions are non negotiable and it would be absolute folly to negotiate recovery with a WW.

That is because the affair part was discussed on the forum. Dr. Harley reads these threads. So why discuss what was already discussed? Dr. Harley is picking up where the forum left off. He also zeroed in on her husbands mental state, which was very helpful. [he is a psychologist and we are not]

I thought that the show was very helpful and it sounds like they are getting on the right track now that he is back.

I am not sure what is up with that Indigirl chick and I'm not too concerned with it to be honest. I guess anger at random people online trying to better themselves is her way to go.

As for the constructive advice of others. I am sending the NC letter right now with my husband. We have been discussing school and so for our POJA is for me to go to a different branch and change my scheudle so we have more time together. This happens in August. We will try to put the twins in daycare 2 days a week so we can have more evenings together and we are scheduling 2 hours a week to sit down together and go through DR HArleys basic princiles again. We have the workbook and his needs her needs and love busters but not the surving affair book as DR harley said they would send it to me. Feel free to post on my husbands board to ask him about all of this!

We did the opposite schedule thing to avoid daycare their first couple of years of life and I was also breastfeeding the twins until 14 months. As DR harley said it is not working and it may time for a change. I have been putting off finding a daycare because I am really nervous and protective being a first time mom of twins, but I think it may be time to change some things to make our marriage first and not the kids 24/7. I am feeling more hopeful and I think there is a chance we can get past all of this and be stronger and better partners and parents in the future. I am still up and down and so is he but I think changing schedules and scheduling OUR time and never breaking it will change a lot. I am training for my first triathalon in July right now, and I am debating even doing it because of the time it takes. I may try to have my husband to train with me.

I thought it was good too, my husband may be going on himself soon. I told him to post if he does.

DDless, has he listened to the radio show yet? I thought Dr Harley made some great points about his getting help with his depression and his outbursts.

"I am still up and down and so is he but I think changing schedules and scheduling OUR time and never breaking it will change a lot. I am training for my first triathalon in July right now, and I am debating even doing it because of the time it takes. I may try to have my husband to train with me."

This would be a great issue to negotiate with him. Your marriage is on life support and needs all the time you can give it. The most important part of the program is committing 15 hours per week of undivided attention time meeting the top 4 ENs of affection, conversation, rec companionship and sexual fulfillment. That is the minimum time it takes just to maintain a marriage. And Harley recommends that time is spent out of the home on dates alone. If he would agree enthusiastically, training for your triathlon together might be a great way to meet some of that time. Does he like to exercise?

I think this will be a great opportunity to practice your POJA, get enriched by sharing your points of view. Be sure you both get involved in looking and finding a great daycare. It might be a great experience of itself.


Yes I agree, it might not be a good idea, but if your H is enthusiastic about training with you, then it can turn out to be great. Remember UA time is your priority.