The only relationship that is like being married
is
actually being married.

You can be in a committed partnership but not be married
but
it isn't the same thing.

Kim Kardashian isn't the best model of marriage.

She and her latest spouse lived together for a long time pre-marriage. Time'll tell on that deal.

It is awesome that your parents are still together after so many years even though they were not married until recently. What a blessing. Is their relationship supportive and loving or is it volatile? (I only ask because it is tough having a long relationship that stays romantic and kind).

Anyway.

Being married is great but a huge commitment. Huge.

Although the book, Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders may make a point to people who believe in marriage and the vows that are initially well intentioned and truthful, l feel that in your situation the best book to Read, Study and continually Put Into Daily Practice would be, Love Busters.

Love Busters would aide you in knowing how to properly address complaints and differences of opinions in a manner that leaves both spouses feelings intact.

LTL

Thanks guys. Well my parents marriage id say is wonderful. My mom is mentally and physically sick. And my dad takes good care of her. But it seems shes developing dementia and has schizophrenia so she fights with my dad a lot its hard to see that when im having my own issues.

That is not what Buyers, REnters and Freeloaders is about at all. She needs to start with that book so she understands the dynamics that have led to the lovebusters in their marriage. There is an entirely different dynamic at play here.

Agreed, halp, let us know your plan to eliminate your love busters, and we can support you in that. That will help you and your kids create a stable family whether it's with this guy or the next one.

I can relate to you a lot, I got married at 21 and had my OD at 22, even though I had picked a man who had a drinking problem and was not someone who would be able to put a marriage and family first. I tell my teenagers the same advice in that book, to date 30 people before deciding to settle down with one, so you have all the information on what's out there, and don't settle for someone because you figure that's the best you can do.

But you've decided your man is a keeper, that's great, will give a lot more stability to your youngest, and maybe this stuff can help you transform your current Renters' agreement into a Buyers' one. A marriage that would last a lifetime, now that is *so* much more important than a kickbutt wedding!

I do feel that she should read and become well versed on B,R &F, yet as Dr. Harley continually points out, analyzing the past spends useless time that could otherwise be well spent on changing the Current Behaviors causing the ongoing problems.

Love Busters will address the current and ongoing patterns that are destroying their relationship.

Trying to educate someone about how futile living together before marriage After they have willingly chosen that past is trying to close the barn door after all of the animals have run out the door.

Learn how to complain respectfully and don't just make unilateral sacrifices to attempt to make up for your past behaviors.

Have you read The Basic Concepts on this sites tour yet?

Please read that and pay extra special attention to the POJA, Policy Of Joint Agreement.

Then continue to post here to get feedback on how to make the necessary adjustments to learn the concepts and POJA till it becomes second nature.

LTL

"Trying to educate someone about how futile living together before marriage After they have willingly chosen that past is trying to close the barn door after all of the animals have run out the door."

I disagree completely. This is the book Dr Harley recommends to those who are living together. I can tell you haven't read it by your posts here and I even wonder if you listen to his shows? The dynamic they have created exists NOW and unless they understand the difference between a buyer and a renter they can't change their relationship.

This has nothing to do with "living in the past" since this dynamic exists TODAY.

How about taking the time to research the subject before you give advice? Have you read this book?

I wonder why Dr. Harley wrote the book, then.

It is important to realize that renter relationships do not cease to be renter relationships simply by avoiding love busters. It takes a determined decision by by both parties to move on to being buyers. When you are buyers, then you see the incentive to control love busters. Renters see love busters as a valid tool for controlling their partner.

It is obvious from the initial post in this thread that halpme and her partner are renters. This is not a disrespectful judgement; it is a classification based on how they interact. Reading "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders" will help them to understand their relationship's dynamics, and give them a blueprint for becoming buyers, if they so choose. All buyers want to be married, just like all property owners want their names on the deed. Eliminating love busters alone won't bring them to a healthy relationship. They will still be renters, subject to moving on to a better rental arrangement whenever one comes along.

Hey guys sorry Ive been busy trying to be the perfect little wifey. I cleaned the whole house, did all the dishes, did all the laundry everything I made breakfast and dinner last night. Im listening to lovebusters right now. I know he's a keeper I dont need to read a book to know that, neither does he. I mean if i have time after i read this one I'll try to read the renters one. I hate to say it... but marriage isnt a HUGE deal to me. I think marriage is special and I only want to be married once. The generation we live in now (my generation) doesnt take marriage seriously at all for the most part. Ok hows this. My boss is 40 years old and he was married 10 years ago and it lasted 5 months she blew his truck up no joke. But now he has a gf my age and they've been together for almost 4 years they live together and have a great relationship. I know what everyone is saying though that without marriage theres nothing to keep people together. BUT I dont want someone to solely stay with me because of a legal binding agreement. I want us to work things out because we love eachother deeply not because of a legal contract or breach of contract ya know. I know a girl a few years older than me whose married and her husband has cheated on her SOOOOO many times because they're married and he knows she isnt going to leave him ever and will always work things out. Not that my guy would do that he knows im bat$hit crazy lol. Honestly guys my issue right now isnt that I want a ring on my finger right now... maybe somewhere down the line in a few years. I have to get something off my chest though guys Im going to post it in another box so see below.

Btw we arent going to find better "leases" so to speak. We're both the best the other is going to get. LOL truly. Ill add yall on fb and ya lol. But sometimes really bothering me. So I've gone out of my way to do everything right and nice. We're not separating at all anymore. He let it go he's talking about our future now. He asks me where I want the tv hung and other stuff ya know. But I'm upset because today is his uncles 59th bday ok. They're having a small get together at his moms house today ok, his mom, and sister and him and the uncle thats it. Brian (my guy) told me friday night (after drinking) that today he wanted me to go to his moms for the bday. Today hes like Im just going to go alone I dont want drama with you and my mom and my sister and my uncle wants to smoke a little bit. So I was like ok fine whatevz. I wasn't really mad I started doing dishes from breakfast. But I said to him "hey what happened to you? you used to have my back when your family didnt want me around and you would tell them tough crap if they wanted to hang out with you they had to accept me." And he was like "well your a young hardheaded wont back down disrespectful girl and my mom is an old hardheaded stuck in her ways disrespectful out of it old lady and i dont want to deal with drama from either side i love both of you im not going to entertain your guys' ongoing drama with eachother." I dont want to put him in the middle but it kinda hurts my feelings. His mom is such a two faced disrespectful lady and she expects me to bite my tongue ALL THE TIME. I literally want to scream. And then Brian is like hey..can you help me make fries? So I made fries for them for their little get together. It really grinds my gears peeps. This f'n lady man. My bf and I had ended involvement with her like 2 months ago and you know what she did...? She knew we were broke and moving to a new home she wrote Brian a check for $5,000 to end the rift. She tried to buy our respect and friendship. It worked with her son but you cant buy me. Shes so rude and mean to me but expects me to forget everything because she gave us money. I almost wanted him to rip up the check. And then I'm kinda irked because on Friday night Brian went to dinner at his sisters house with her husband and his correctional officer co worker but I had asked him earlier that night if he wanted to do something and hes like I cant I have a ton of hw and I have to do computer installations. Yesterday he had jobs planned but they cancelled so we spent the day cleaning but he was like no we cant do stuff I need to catch up on all my stuff. So today Sunday he goes to his moms for a bit i guess and hes like no we cant do anything today because when i get back I have to remote in into some computers and blah blah but next weekend we should be able to. Guys ahhhhhhhhhhh I want to scream. gnjghrlehgrilehgy784wty thats how I feel right now. Im trying to be understanding and let go and not be controlling. Because he never goes anywhere or even to her his family and he has no friends but its frustrating. And omfg his mom and his sister are my friends on FB if they cant stand me why cant they grow a pair and tell me and unfriend me? I want to say that to Brian but I dont want to go off on him and get all aggressive. Sorry for the tangent.

Halpme: You came here asking for advice. What we have told you is based on the experience of Dr. Harley in saving many marriages from situations that were extremely dire. Many of us have *lived* those situations! You are free to ignore the advice offered to you that comes from Dr. Harley's decades of experience. But to do so based on chosen ignorance, that is, not reading a short book and justifying that lack of action on a bunch of anecdotes, is foolish in the extreme.

The suggestion to read "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders" is offered as the best advice we can give you. Nobody says that renters can't love each other deeply. You need to educate yourself on these concepts and not assume you understand them when you don't. If you want to remain a renter after that, well, at least you will know what to realistically expect from your relationship.

Halpme, you are perfectly free to ignore the advice here and substitute your own folk "wisdom;" it is all the same to us. I would just point out that your best thinking led you to this terrible place and it won't solve your problems.

I wish you the best...

And you know what our downfall is... we dont really have fun together much anymore. Im so uptight nowadays I feel like we have a family so I need to be mature. I dont like drinking or smoking or going out and f'ing off ya know. I dont do bars at all or dancing nothing like that. I tell him I want to go to church and do child friendly activities i consider it selfish to not bring all the rugrats all the time. Oh yah and he doesnt go to church I mean i dont either but he's agnostic. He pretty much told me hes never going to church except to get married but thats it. Guys honestly is it ok to go out and do this stuff? I just dont want to be seen as a bad mom by other people or by my own kids. If i see moms at a bar on fb lets say im like what a skank or unresponsible mom. But Brian wants to go do fun things with me. The last fun thing we did was for my sons bday June 13th we went to wild water and i was tipsy so I actually wore a bathing suit and got on huggee water slides.

I just dont want or care to be married right now. Im ok with that. One day we will get married but not today. And yes guys once I get done listening to this audiobook I'll look into the renters one and listen to that one too.

No one here is pushing you to get married. You are being advised that you are in a renter relationship and that renter relationships have a lot of drawbacks. They are fine as long as everyone is "happy" with how things are. When life goes a bit downhill, the renter mentality is to bail. Renters often fight and argue. Or they sacrifice for each other.

Buyers work together to reach solutions that make them both happy. Buyers adjust to each other and build compatibility. Buyers negotiate rather than fight or argue.

A marriage in which one or both are renters or freeloaders is an unhappy marriage. A great marriage has two buyers who have good will toward each other, negotiate to reach mutually acceptable solutions, are in love with each other, and avoid hurting each other.

You will learn a lot of helpful information from the book Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders, just as my H and I did.

Ok but for example... his parents have been married like 30 years ok. His dad hooked up with my guys half sister (the moms daughter from a previous marriage), he cheated on her with coworkers, he beat the crap out of her, he beat the crap out of my guy and his sister growing up. Its funny because his mom gave me the mentality to not give up but now shes upset im not giving up. But just because they're married does that mean she needs to put up with all that crap? She has!! And he still treats her like crap, he goes and buys brand new cars just because without consulting her and puts his hands on her and everyone is just fine and dandy with it. My bf doesnt care and his mom doesnt care. Yet Im this horrible [censored] for speaking up for myself. Idk I dont want to have that type of marriage. We're definitely buyers I want to say... I just had issues with controlling him. But I will read the book!!!

I have no idea what these anecdotes have to do with the price of tea in china. No one has said getting married ensures a perfect marriage. We are saying that shacking up virtually guarantees a disastrous relationship. They are tenuous, fragile relationships that are characterized by abuse. Marriages are not characterized by abuse. 80% of domestic violence occurs in relationships that either are shacking up or did so before they married. Domestic violence is amazingly rare in marriages.

You keep pointing to bad marriages for some reason and seem to ignore your own bad relationship. There is a REASON why it is bad. And if you want to know why you will read the article I posted and read that book.

If you want to remain ignorant that is fine with us, but you have been given the tools to understand why your relationship is so unstable and volatile.

Just because you've seen a lot of bad examples of marriage doesn't mean you can't have a great one.

If you have had a habit of threatening to leave this man, then it's not at all clear that you're committed to this man. I'm sure that's how he perceives it.

That's the renter mentality everyone is referring to. There's a part of you that's had one foot out the door every time things didn't go your way.

If you are so desperate to find bad examples, why don't you start with your own situation? It makes no sense to point to others when your own is a disaster. You might have a point if your relationship was successful, but it's not.