Don't know where to put this, so I am putting this here. This will be long, sorry. A little backstory, my wife and I have always been extremely close with an amazing bond. We are basically the Brady Bunch with three kids from previous marriages. We have had our share of fights in five years, but from mostly outside influences. She works out of the house full time remotely (dial in), and I go to a job. Her ex husband doesn't pay child support and is 30K behind, and I have pretty much become their father. They call me Dad. My ex wife is pretty difficult, but we have found a way to make it work. For like two months, she has been taking our kids (her biological) to another church for youth group on Wednesday nights only as our very small church (we are associate pastors there) doesn't have one yet and we wanted them around other kids as our oldest son was having some issues. I wasn't a fan of being separated even for one night and told her so. The kids only knew two people there and it is a big church with a big youth group. Ultimately though, they are her kids.
The trouble started a week ago today. My wife was dealing with a call from an attorney for her ex who is trying to get his child support reduced (how can you do that when you don't pay ) My wife then proceeded to ask the kids if they wanted me to adopt them. A little bit later, I went to the dentist and came home quicker than I thought, and she asked me if I wanted to go to the store with her (keep in mind, there have been plenty of times she has said no, so I didn't think it was a big deal if I did), and I said no, I would like to stay here and watch the soccer match. She then got offended and walked out with one of our daughters. She came home angry and the fight was on when I asked her why she was upset with me when the real person she is mad at is her ex. She closed the fight out by saying she was getting a divorce when she gets paid. She has said the "D" word before, but so have I. We always have found our way back pretty quickly because of our bond by talking through the issues. This time she went deep underground into withdrawal. I mean NO COMMUNICATION.
Saturday night, I decided to make this a hous of peace and not fight and just say, "OK" when she rebuffed me. Sunday, I noticed she wasn't getting ready for church. I asked her why and she said she was taking the kids to choir camp. I told her they didn't need to be there till three, so we can go to church and then ride together. She said, "No, you won't be going." I said, "ok, have a great afternoon.", then got ready and went to church. On the way home, I got her some stuff for repairs on the house, then flowers and a card trying to change the stalemate. She got home and asked who the flowers were from (she loves flowers, but knew full well who they were from), and took the card into the bedroom with the letter I wrote to her, read it (I guess), and returned it to the counter, told our daughter she was taking a nap and went and shut the door. She stayed asleep for three hours. During this time, I logged into our home computer and found a rental application for a rental house up on the screen with an email from a realtor (it was a female in case you were wondering) that she enjoyed meeting her family!!! Really, because her husband wasn't there! Now, let me preface this, I have NEVER had a reason to not trust her. She is probably the most honest person I have ever met. I decided to sit on this info and gather more. I tried to be nice and took her some water. She accused me of waking her up because I was being selfish by not letting her sleep. I just said, "I'm sorry you feel that way, but that wasn't my intention", and walked off. Didn't get angry, but she wanted me too.
Yesterday, I got home, folded some laundry, did the dishes, and made a list for the store (trying to change one of her gripes about not helping around the house or seeing what needs to be done). Went to the store, came back, put up the groceries and then folded some more laundry. I went into our home office and tried to make small talk and she did for a little while. Then she said, "I need you to leave me alone, I'm trying to work." I said, "OK", then left the room. Our daughter walks in and starts talking to her and cutting up with her and never says to her she is working. Our daughter then slips up and says, "Mom, what do we still need to do to get the house?" I could feel my wife's laser eyes at her through the wall. I still didn't say anything. She then "corrected" herself and said, "You know, get the house in order?" It didn't get any better. LOL. Anyway, I was mad, but didn't show it. When I felt I was about to explode, I went to get some take out for us for dinner. I got home and found that she had put the rental application online through the realtors website. We ate, then watched some movies. I asked her if I could lay next to her on the beanbag and she said, "sure". We sat next to each other all evening but didn't touch. I made sure I wasn't doing anything to make her angry, but instead comfortable. We went to bed, and thinking there was some progress, so I tried to talk about some things and she got really angry. Said she was done and that any change I made should have been done five years ago. I said, I know exactly why you won't talk to me, I know about you and the application on the other house. She went ballistic and accused me of snooping. We always agreed to have open access to each others things to prevent secrets. She found some stuff on my phone a few years ago (porn) and I agreed it would make us better accountable and also because I wanted her to trust me. When she said I was snooping, I started to get angry and almost retaliate verbally (like I used to), but instead, just said, "I'm fighting for our marraige." and walked outside. I walked in and she was on the computer doing something, and I looked and she had moved emails from the realtor into a folder she thought I couldn't see. She then proceeded to sleep on the couch and left the bed for me.
Now, I am not ruling out an affair, but have found no evidence to support it (texts, emails, facebook chats, or the like). i have access to it all and can't find anything, other than the other house. I'm not sticking my head in the sand, but until I find evidence (none so far, and she is not tech savvy AT ALL), I can't prove an affair. I'm staying in faith that she will not follow through and trying to live in peace and make our home a place she doesn't want to leave. I have told her repeatedly I am fighting for our marriage, and that I love her. But she is stone. Won't return any of my texts unless it is a one word answer to a question. I have texted her that I am planning a getaway for the two of us and she hasn't said no. I also have to start thinking about the worst scenario (her moving out). What do you guys think?

Aggie,

Two things pop out.

You wrote, For like two months, she has been taking our kids (her biological) to another church for youth group on Wednesday nights

This could be where she has formed an emotional attachment to some member of that church. In my experience there often seems to be males that just hang around big churches and pounce when a good looking woman comes along. Since your W is there every week there may be no need for email or other communication, kinda like the way work affairs start.

The other is the renewed involvement with her ex may be dredging up hidden feelings for him, or memories of how the ex was better than you when she compares him to you.

God Bless
Gamma

Aggie,

Is there some way of getting a spy into the other church?

Is your W living in your home?

God Bless
Gamma

Yes, my wife is still in the home. Said she is moving out in three weeks though. Until last night, she slept in the bed with me. Her ex husband is a POS that doesn't see his kids and hasnt but twice for 1 hour in six years. He told her he shouldn't have to pay child support because her and I are able to support them on our own. She has been abandoned by her dad when she was a kid and he didn't pay child support on her and her five siblings either. She has abandonment issues also. Forgot to mention that.

As far as a spy, I'm not sure how to do that as everyone we know goes to a church.

I'm confused and it may be because your story is so long. I apologize. Did she ever confess to the rental application and give you a reason for it? Has she asked for a divorce and if so, what were her complaints about you?

yeah, last night when I confronted her about it she said that she hid it from me so that she could avoid these next few weeks of fighting. She said she was going to file for divorce when she got paid. The complaints she had were, I didn't help around the house enough (didn't see things that needed to be done and just did them, etc), and the finances haven't been good (and that isn't just me). I have started doing better in the area of helping around the house over the last month or two and she even complimented me on it. The finances had gotten better until this month when we had a bunch of expenses come up.

Update: I just called her mother and she was told I hit her and that she isn't happy. My wife has a bruise on her shoulder, but it isn't there because of me abusing her. Honest. Why would my wife make that up???

Most women in affairs accuse their spouse of abuse. We see it here really commonly. Particularly the ones who were really honest pre affair. Their conscience has to be snuffed by demonising you. You will have probably noticed a great deal of depression because she WAS an honest person and occasionally she realises how bad it is and this is difficult for her.

It's very unusual for a woman with kids to move out without even trying unless there is another guy in the wings. Her anger at you snooping and the abuse accusation is all very, very textbook.

That remark to her mother was your warning shot. Get a voice recorder to protect t yourself from false accusations and have it on at all times. Don't leave your home and hire a PI.

It was pretty silly to tell her you were snooping before catching her. However a PI should get the goods in two days. You'll probably also want to look for a secret, probably disposable phone and secret email accounts or apps.

At least you know what days she sees him. I'm sorry you're here but men who get with married women are losers. You have a good chance of running him off like the cockroach he is.

It's just not realistic to believe she is going because of some dishes and laundry. Especially if she is not even negotiating or willing to resolve it.

If her mind is made up, it's because it's on somebody else.

We also have some real abused spouses posting here. You can tell the difference because they NEVER accuse their spouses of abuse. We always we have a very hard time convincing them that they are being abused even though it is very obvious to us. Usually they are in serious danger.

If she calls the police on a false charge, you're toast. She will tell them how her mother coaxed her to be brave and tell the truth. You will be carted off to explain yourself and the locks will be changed in your absence.

She won't have to wait until she's paid. She won't have to pay out on a rental. Probably OM didn't think she was serious when she asked him for financial help and has gone back on what they agreed.

So now she needs you to be the one who goes.

You'll be out on the street, paying to provide the love shack for her and her (unemployed or married) OM.

Women in affairs start off thinking they can just leave, but sometimes when they do their financial sums they realise it's not going to work unless they cry abuse.

This is so true.

When and how did you leave your previous marriages? Were those marriages ended due to affairs?

This DOES sound like an affair, I am sorry to say. Playing the abuse card is standard material. It is her way of setting the stage where she is the poor victim who had to escape her vile abusive husband, to detract from the fact that she is really leaving to pursue an affair.

You need to start recording conversations and events, and keeping good records of things as they unfold, to protect yourself from these allegations.

Was she spending a lot of time with anybody before this decision to have overnights apart? That is such a weird decision, to be away from your H to go to church. What kind of denomination doesn't put marriage first?

It's like stealing a car to get to church!

Update: she is totally irate that I called her mom. She is saying that she is now moving out and that we are officially separated. How I act over the next few weeks decides if she is going to file for divorce or not. So in other words, if I don't get in her way, and let her do what she wants, she won't file. Hmmmm.

I will answer the other questions later.

Interesting that her marital status needs an 'official' designation. Is she expecting an official marriage inspection? Perhaps a visit from the marriage ambassador?

Or does she have a boyfriend and a conscience to appease?



Textbook. Oh dear, why do they never do anything original?

So basically she doesn't want you talking to her relatives because she can't keep the lies she is telling everyone straight if you all compare notes.

She will also need you to comply in a sad faced announcement of a separation that you both mutually feel this is right. Well she can't very well tell people that she is leaving you over household chores and because you rang her mother.

That would sound crazy, wouldn't it?

As soon as you comply and make it convincing she break the deal and will have the divorce lawyer and her boyfriend on the phone. "Make him give me maintenance cash too? Why certainly honey if you think so. He did abuse me after all."


You just need to uncover her affair and expose it. That will run the rat off back to his lair nicely. Once he is gone, this whole problem of an impending divorce goes away too.

Aggie,

Welcome to marriage builder. Your next steps are critical and need to be done in a timely manner. Don't disappear from this forum because you are going to get the best advice from right here.

You need to understand that your wives demands are not laws in you house and should not be rewarded. She is basically demanding that you make it easy for her to divorce you and connect with some other man. Your need to exposer her yesterday using the Exposure 101 thread. But, before you do that you need to snoop, I think the youth camp is more then likely the place to find the truth. A "spiritual" man that love kids is just her speed. Let there not be a youth camp event that you are not at with your kids. You will also need their contact information because they will be part of your exposure group.

The more time you wait the more time she has to falsely expose you to all your friends and family.

Quick update: I have searched everywhere on her phone, our computer and her iPad and I find nothing that even hints at an affair. More later...

Does she have a facebook account? Social media? Do you have a list of suspects? If so snoop on them via social media. Pretty hard to keep things secret this day and age. Have you bought a gps for her car and a VAR as well. Don't know if it was suggested but a PI is also a good route.

If there is an OM, and it certainly sounds like there is, she either only contacts him currently when at that new Church group, or she has an alternate unknown method of contact, such as a burner 2nd cell phone.

A VAR in her car may gather some information for you very cheaply.

Also, having someone she doesn't know or a PI attend that Church group may reveal who she is becoming too friendly with.

But definitely keep a VAR on your person when in direct face to face contact with her so you can refute any abuse claims. A soft leather eye glass container makes an excellent unnoticeable hiding place to keep one in your shirt pocket.

LTL