All I can say, we are probably all bothered by it, but the past is the past, and can't be changed, even if it bothers you, try to leave it alone. It's not worth fighting over, and she will think differently of you for it. We all made mistakes!!

I forgot to say that I am not ignoring the replies about not bringing up the past. I asked for help and that suggestion has been offered several times, so I am trying it.

Also, thanks for the mention of Historical Honesty, BH. It is one of the first things I read. Dr. Harley says in it that dishonesty is what destroys marriages. Since bits of the truth would sometimes get uncovered when my wife and I talked about the past, it made sense to me to continue talking about it even though it was sometimes very painful. Not talking about the past seems like denial, which I've never been big on. But I am trying it.

You said in your first few posts that your wife has been a good and faithful wife for many many years. She has been very remorseful about her past and is terribly embarrassed about it. Do you think she has made Just Compensation to you all these years by being as good a person/wife as possible?

One of the things that Dr. Harley talks about it is when we wrong our spouse, we are to EARN our spouse's forgiveness through Just Compensation. That means we make the present and future much better than the past. She has never ever again made the mistake of having sex outside of marriage AND she's sorry she ever did. There is nothing further this poor woman can do to make up for what she did before she married you.

If you talk about it more, it will make her feel terrible all over again. She's already embarrassed and ashamed. Why would a man who loves his wife continue to rub her nose in her shame? I guarantee that talking about it will not you feel any better either.

Now you know the truth about what she did before she made vows to you. If you are a Christian, then you understand that having sex outside of marriage is a sin against our own body. She actually hurt herSELF when she did that. She also hurt her future husband, but she probably didn't think about that at that time. Who thinks about the future wisely in their foolish years?

So why didn't she tell you the entire truth much earlier? She was embarrassed and ashamed. It was probably enough to her to know that you understood you were not her first, that there were others, and that with at least one there wasn't a connection; it was just a sexual encounter.

She can never undo that. She is remorseful and she has been a wonderful and faithful wife. Don't you think she has paid enough?

LongWay: I said I have decided to try not talking about the past anymore even though that seems like denial to me. I think indiegirl made the comment that not talking about the past is counter-intuitive but effective. That struck a chord.

You make a good point about just compensation, but you jumped to a conclusion that I am rubbing her nose in it by talking about her past. I'm not. When we talked about it she would be more and more open and honest, which helps rebuild trust.

For that same reason, I contest your guarantee that talking about it would never make me feel better.

Sir, Dr. Harley clearly states: We do NOT speak of mistakes of the past!
We move on. We meet each others emotional needs and build our love bank balances so we fall in love and stay in love and enjoy life and marriage!

It's nice that it made you feel better that your wife has been honest with you about her past. Did it make her feel better, too?

When your wife is honest with you about embarrassing details of her past, Dr. Harley would strongly recommend that you avoid punishing her with disrespectful judgments. Perhaps you aren't doing that, and you are being loving; however, the way you describe your disgust and unhappiness over her behavior before she married you many years ago makes me hope that you are not doing the same with your wife. Honesty is a lot easier when the reaction is respectful.

Well, indeed. That's why Dr H is so vocally opposed to deception because it is one person trying to steal the other person's right to make an informed decision or have input.

No matter how sorry she is, or how humanly understandable her reasons, it took away your right to make a decision about what you were OK with. Maybe you would have decided to walk away - maybe you would have done so if you had found out while the marriage was still very young.

You still get to make that decision to walk away now in fact. It's just that there's nothing in your posts to suggest you are going to; you want to know how to feel better and you seem to accept her reasons for doing what she did.

Perhaps you would have been similarly forgiving on the eve of marriage (Perhaps more so because you had no reason to feel tricked before committing) or perhaps you only do so now because of her behaviour over the years, as longwayfromhome points out. Or rather it's the investment you have put in over the years and what you have built together. That doesn't make it suck any less that you didn't get to make an informed decision in the beginning, but these are the cards in your hand.

Now, I actually respectfully disagree with longwayfromhome's post on one minor point. She wasn't a good wife for the period he describes because she was being deceptive. When you look back over that period, no matter how good it was, it is coloured by the deception that was in existence for that period. You can't decide to pay someone JC without them even knowing about it. But it rightfully points out that there must be something positive there - you wouldn't be here if there wasn't something good enough to save.

So you can (if you choose) have that same good period, but without the deception. Starting now. Now you DO get to make the decision and if you want to; move forward, leaving the past in the past.

It will neither be easy or quick. You are rightfully grieved. However over time pleasant experiences will over-colour the negative thoughts.

My advice would be to ensure that current honesty is place with everything, there is an open book policy with everything, including little stuff, and make sure that 15 hours UA time is happening, and that it is pleasant time filled with pleasant experiences.

Ok, I'm going to talk from the wife's point of view, as someone who had trouble with radical honesty. Indiegirl, you have absolutely no idea how hard it is to be radically honest, especially with someone as morally superior as this poster. In a way I feel like that about my husband. How can I be honest about feelings that are less than good when he sees them as despicable... Your reaction is the EXACT reason why she never told you. She knew she would lose something she could never, ever gain back... Somehow she felt close enough to trust you and possible got tired of having that between you. She opened the door to her heart.

I don't know what the answer is. I continue to be more and more honest, but it is truly very hard when you feel like you are second best or damaged goods in the eyes of someone you love more than life itself. I have to continually, hourly, minute by minute tell myself I need to be honest but sometimes I still don't share. It is hard not to be protective when you fear his disapproval of who you TRULY are... It is so incredibly hard and you feel so vulnerable and your reactions even though they are perhaps justified just reinforce the decisions NOT to be radically honest. It is SO SO SO hard for us. If we believed you would still love us no matter what we said: whether we disagree with you, whether our values haven't always been your values and may not be your values today.... then and only then would we be truly honest.

First of all it is hard. No one said honesty was easy. That's why we start learning it as children and never seem to stop.

I also agree that it is hard to be radically honest if you get disrespectful judgements in return. However I have not seen that here. He hasn't called her any names and has instead gone to some lengths to accept her reasoning. He thinks her reasoning is pretty understandable in spite of the fact it has seen him living with lies. He isn't ending the marriage he is trying to find a way for it not to bother him.

It's not OK to call someone 'morally superior' - THAT is a disrespectful judgement.

In fact I think all 'you can't handle the truth' deception is disrespectful.




That's unconditional love. Dr Harley advises against it.

Deception kills love. SO no matter how hard it is, drop it. And the longer you lie the worse the fall out will be when the truth emerges.

I feel for this man's wife. If she had spoken up earlier he wouldn't have so much of a period of deception to recover from. She's been a good wife for many years and his love and approval are clearly important to her. That doesn't make lying a wise option. Lying throughout that period was needless folly.

Wow. Thank you very much indiegirl and hopefulwife. That was a very honest, vulnerable post hopefulwife. I feel that complete honesty is called for even or maybe especially when it is hard, but I realize not everyone does.

Oh I do, it is hard. I just finally told my husband that I have been "faking" it in our lovemaking for 15 years. I didn't want him to think I was not a good lover. I faked responding the way that I thought I should.

Now I didn't have sex with anyone other than my husband but I do think bad things. Indie girl my husband IS morally superior. I'm not meaning that disrespectfully. I mean is a man of integrity that I cannot seem to be. I often daydream about running away from being a mom. I don't enjoy it. I haven't told him that completely. I've told him that I don't always even want to be a mom and that completely horrified him. He's right. Being a mom is a high calling. I don't know how to change what I feel. So I am morally wrong. I'm sure old fashioned wouldn't think much of me either. And we can sense when you are faking your acceptance of us..

Hopewife, you may have been living in your own head for too long.

I know that whenever I am dishonest the thing I'm hiding gets very big and black and grows wings. But in the light it is teeny weeny.

It doesn't sound like you are the dreadful person you believe yourself to be. Just food for thought.

I forgot to give some specifics in response to indiegirl's reply.
Your observation hit the nail on the head about the deceptions:
The only thing I would add is that deceptions also make me wonder if there are more deceptions.

My reasons for staying committed are as you supposed:
Plus the deep, warm, loving feelings of connectedness we gratefully share when times are good.

In the same way indie asks you to reconsider your self condemnation, I ask you to not be so sure what others think. I obviously don't know you, but based on what you have offered, I do accept you and think much of you.

One of the powerful things about honesty is (as Dr. Harley explains) that is allows for a clear understanding of the issue or problem, which in turn allows for coming up with sound solutions. Your honesty about being a mother might lead to your husband helping out more, or setting things up so you get some time to yourself. Who can say? But without honesty, the problem goes undetected which means there can be no solution, and things will likely get worse.

There were days I didn't want to be a father because I felt incompetent and overwhelmed. So I talked about it and got some helpful ideas. Are there any parents that can say otherwise?

You need to make it clear that they need to come out now if so. They will not be a feature of any further conversations if there is more,;you just need to ensure this next phase of marriage is going to be skeleton-free. Thank her for her bravery in the other revelations too.

Can you give us an idea of how transparent your life is now? Do you have each others passwords etc? Do you spend much of your hours together? Is anything hidden? Do you see each others spending etc etc.

My feeling is you don't have a big current problem. You also now know your wife's major weakness. I'd say it is mainly related to her past weakness based on how much of a catch she saw herself her to be. It's a super duper common problem - girls are under tremendous pressure to behave as though they are as sexually driven as men are. I've had many a debate on the dating forum with men who say they wouldn't consider a woman who was not.


I don't see her weakness in this regard cropping up much again, perhaps she may have a tendency to avoid looking bad in your eyes using deception in other ways - I don't really think so though. It's uncomfortable to be aware of a weakness in your spouse and it feels like a vulnerability but you are actually more knowledgeable and watchful regarding your marriage now.

I'm confused. Where is the deception? Did she lie to you about her past or did you two not really talk about it? If there are deal breakers then you should have voiced these before marriage. I can imagine your wife is upset also. I know I would if my wife suddenly started asking me questions about my sexually past and then was resentful towards me for something other than inhumane activities (child molestation). Not exactly the same but could you imagine someone being angry and resentful towards you for voting as a Republican a couple times?

He asked her before marriage and she gave him a deceitful answer because she knew it bothered him.



I seriously doubt that anyone gets married without asking about their deal breakers.

We did really talk about her past before marriage, and she knew back then how super important wholesomeness was to me. But she deceived me--she only told me some of the unwholesome things she did.

You're kidding, right?

Yes, it's not easy but I thanked her when she told me more. And I have insisted that everything be out in the open. Thanks for the reminder about transparency now (bank accounts, passwords, etc)--current honesty.

Many guys (maybe most guys) are just after sex, and definitely pressure women to have sex. BUT NOT ALL GUYS DO. There is also the pressure of "nice girls don't." I'm certain it can be a difficult situation for women. But what about the common knowledge that a woman being too easy means most guys won't "call you in the morning" much less be interested in a long term relationship?

One of the hardest things for me is that right after our breakup she wound up in bed with someone new, even though she still loved me. She claims it felt so good that I never pressured her for sex and that sex wasn't the primary interest. But even though she had what so many women claim they want in that regard, she went right back to what they claim they don't want. What does that say about what we had/have? And after all the unwholesomeness, how can there be any real intimacy in what we have?

Women don't have the instant sex trigger of testosterone. Usually (not always) a woman needs to be loved and feel safe and in competent hands to have their own reactive desire triggered and enjoy sex. However we live in a society that treats women without the instant sex trigger as defective.

Go read hopeful wife's post again. A normal feminine response to sex is described but she felt she had to be 'good lover' to impress him - i.e. enjoy sex on autopilot.

It can be really hard for a young girl to understand why she isn't like the women on TV and films. Men in films kiss a girl one moment, she is naked and orgasming the next. Women think their own natural reactions of needing more makes them unnatural. They think if they don't fake desire they will be marked out as freaks.

It's a different dynamic to having a natural desire which you decide is something you can supress until the time is right.

There are plenty of men who refuse to date a women unless she is 'sexually compatible' - i.e. appears to have a testosterone-driven drive which exists in all situations.

It's possible your wife had never even heard of guys like you before meeting you. There is a whole community of people who buy into the sexually compatible myth.

I can see why the promiscuity AFTER she had met you hurts more, but I get it from her perspective too.




You have what it takes to unlock it for her. It's hard to describe; but for women, having non-intimate sex is like a non-action. The activity is the same but it is the difference between eating food without taste and the best Italian food ever made.

If Italian is your thing.

I agree with Indiegirl totally.

Let me tell you a story. Back in the day when I was an avid horseback rider, there was one horse that had an awkward gait and was always running with its head up or down like a goat. I thought this horse had no potential and did not like riding it. Then, one day, my friend rode that horse and I did not believe my eyes. It looked like it had just come from the Olympics. I have never seen such an elegant combination. It was not the horse that was defective. I was obviously not good for it.

Do not make the mistake to think that you did not marry a wholesome girl. Your love to her and her love to you made you and her blossom. You had what it took to be able to be that wholesome girl. Some people bring the best out in each other, while others make you wither with their toxic presence.
You DID marry a wholesome girl and she was a wholesome wife to you. She must love and trust your wholesome side a lot to have been able to tell you even her mistakes of the past that she has buried so long ago. You can choose to think that you could have married someone more perfect, but you may also choose to think: �I am glad that I did not know, because I would have missed out on this wonderful and wholesome person, because of some dumb things she did.� That is up to you.

Surely, you wanted to marry a wholesome girl, because your goal was to maximize your chance to have a wholesome marriage with a wholesome wife. And that is exactly what you got.

You are doing the right thing. Although you may temporarily feel better by talking about it (that's why you repeat it), you will feel bad in the long run, as you have also noticed.