I've been reading MB for about 2 years. Tried to use it to save my marriage. I should clarify that MB didn't fail, we failed to work the program and quit. We have had SH phone coaching but H wouldn't continue. I have always been the insister/organizer of counseling, dragging my H for help after crises, We've been separated 4 times. Argggg my head spins.

I really need some help. I am so confused and alone.

Background:

Married 26 years. No children. Marriage has always been up and down, sometimes quite far down. My H has been concealing things for many years. I'd never heard of gaslighting before MB but I have sure lived it. Thank God for the clarity it begins to work within my tired brain, explaining so may things that I couldn't untangle and that made no sense.

My H is handsome, charming, successful, funny and very flirtatious. He can make a connection in about 10 seconds. He loves to have women love him. He really likes women and takes advantage of a woman's natural tendency to care for, comfort, empathize and admire.

There have been so many OW in the marriage. There have been no PA's (confirmed by polygraph) but the intrusion, comparison, drain on emotional energy and the obvious emotional connection with so many other women have all but destroyed the marriage and my trust, love, and wellbeing.

We have fought this fight now about 6 years. It was 6 years ago when a serious EA became known to me, and I found out about 6-7 OSF's that I didn't know about. There was another EA-Flirtaion about 2-3 years before and I was so blind sided, shocked, humiliated, scared, sad and grieving that I handled it very badly (hadn't found MB yet). Also, there was never any honesty about the thing and I couldn't get my H to tell me anything and he insisted he was innocent and it was all her. Emails confirmed (from her end) that she had a serious jones over my H and it was pretty graphic. These emails were to friend of the OW in our church not my H, but this friend gave me some of the emails when I asked her if she knew what was happening. Well, according to my H the whole thing was a misunderstanding, the OW's fault, no big deal, totally innocent and just my H joining in her delusions (to quote him). He took no responsibility at all and really talked his way into being her victim. He was even made a Elder afterward when this same woman had an EA with our pastor and the church broke up. Astonishing.

So, this has been going on along time. There are many OSF that H has used as marriage counselors (they're all divorced thought...Huh). He calls other women, visits other women, etc. and basically I feel I had become unnecessary to his happiness along time ago. I didn't know any of this, at least its magnitude, and I had already found out that what I said and felt didn't matter and so I never mounted any real defense. Like the frog in the hot water I learned to accept being ignored, shamed, humiliated, neglected and hurt I had been told that my happiness was my responsibility and I should make myself happy. I sure tried but I thought what a failure I was since my H always seemed to be able to derail my happiness and I thought there must be something very wrong with me.

When I finally started getting the proverbial clue my H made every effort to discredit me, to imply that I was somehow not mentally or emotionally stable, he used a medical condition that I suffer with to add credibility and weight to his concerns that I wasn't quite right. He doubled his efforts in the OW pursuits to cover his tracks, engender support and get his needs further met without the hassle of working with me. He destroyed all but 2 of my friendships by contacting them for support and he used my sister as a sounding board for 20 years. I could never figure out why he didn't seem to ever want to work anything out. I see now that he worked things out outside the marriage and had enough people that told him he was right, wonderful, and even brave to so caringly face his burden of marriage to me.


Every counselor we had became his advocate. I finally read on MB someone's explanation that the marriage counselors side with more powerful personality. Well, I experienced that with 3 counselors and it is so damaging and adds so much gas to the fire of the WS's scorched earth best-defense-is-a-good-offense strategy that the BS is consumed. That almost did me in.

I think you've all heard this before.

I have had it and here's what has me down.

We have been trying, struggling, and hanging in there.

Recently I caught him in 2 lies.

We talked about cashing in our IRAs for a property purchase. I said no. He did it anyway. When I got the settlement check form MY IRA I was furious. He kept claiming that he didn't know the money was from my IRA. He claimed that he TOLD me was cashing in the investments from XYZ company and I should have known and he thought I was find with it and what's the big deal anyway....why am I so hung up on money.

I asked him to clarify two things. 1) Did he know he was cashing in my IRA? 2) How did he manage to cash in my IRA without my permission. He went ballistic, talked in circles wouldn't answer, blamed me for not knowing. Next day I called the broker asked her WTH and how did this happen??? She told me she was so sorry that she assumed I had given permission that my H told her I was on board. I asked her if he knew this was my IRA and she said he asked about my IRA specifically. This cannot be resolved because my H will not admit that he lied. I wrote down all the things he said so I could remember since he denies things. It doesn't matter, the evidence is wrong, I'm wrong for writing it down, blaa blaaa. There it is like a big fat cancer in the room. It bothers me. I like honestly.

Now, he has told me that he is careful with his dealings with other women, and that he's "nervous as hell" every time he speaks with a woman. This is one thing we got from MB. It is a begrudging concession since my H insists that he has NEVER done anything wrong. He has ratcheted down his involvement and phone records do confirm this. However, he really does resent it.

Coupla days ago he told me that he emails pics of my cat to his clients with other stuff, just for fun. This goes over my head for about 24 hours and rattles around and then I ask myself WTH?? He has never done that to my knowledge- what CLIENTS is he talking about? We share an email account for our business so I check and there are the pics to a woman he did work for.

Just one woman- not clients in plural. Why the 1/2 truth?? I asked him why and he goes ballistic, talks in circles. Blames me since I should have known who he was talking about, claims it was innocent and he thought I'd think it was cute since my cat is so fine all the world should love him. He didn't think this was on the edge of propriety and had no idea that it might [censored] a wound for me and look like he was trying to develop a personal connection to this woman. This is his MO. I know some may think I'm oversensitive. Actually I'm asking.... am I??

We had such a fight and he was so abusive to me verbally that I cried for hours. I think he goes ballistic to get me off the scent, so to speak. So yesterday I wrote a note asking him how often he spoke to this woman, what gave him the impression that made it seem OK to send this pic in a professional context. I needed to know and he needed to know. I couldn't let this go and act as if it was nothing, it represents a continuation of him reaching out to OW, I think. BTW, He would not find it cute if was acting cute with men on email professionally or personally. He crumpled the note up and refuses to answer and questions.

The OW is one thing and he thinks it's the only thing but I am wrung out over his disrespect. How can I love, live with, work with someone who will not be honest, who will not answer questions, who sees me in pain and will not move to alleviate that pain. He has the answers and says he is innocent so why not answer and end the thing? It feels like the worse kind of dismissal and degradation. I don't know what to do....

Thoughts?

Hi LuvsOly, welcome to Marriage Builders. It sounds like you have been through a nightmare with your husband. The basic issue, of course, is your husband's independent behavior and his continuous lovebusters. He lies to you and he has horrendous boundaries around women.

I am sure you can see that you can't change him and if he refuses to change, then your marriage is hopeless. I would start making plans to separate as outlined in this article: When to Call It Quits - Part 1

In the meantime, I would send your post to Dr. Harley [Steve's father] as a last resort and get his suggestions. The instructions are here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

Thank you ML,
I have read all the post about when to call it quits. I think my sitch might be worse than most....the other marriages sound kinda dreamy.

I will write to Dr H.

I would like some feedback on gaslighting and what it does to your thinking.

We have so much property, financial entanglements, and joint business that divorce sounds monstrous. I really haven't any reserves of strength left.

I feel like leaving but I have said that I wouldn't separate again unless it was permanently. We have been separated 4 times.... 4 times!! So, I am at that edge where this decision is one I shall live with and it is daunting to me.

My head spins and I wonder if I am the problem? Do I expect too much?

You'll have to be (AND STAY) separated and in NC for some time before you can wrap your head around the abuse you're enduring.

I wouldn't put too much faith in those poly results, either. Even what he's already doing with the EA's is enough for you to separate over, but it wouldn't surprise me if he has a psychological disorder that's serious enough that he can lie his way through a poly and pass.

Rather than focus on what you don't know, focus on what you're already aware of. Your WH has been abusing you for years, isolating you from anyone who might help you, and trying to make you and everyone else think you're crazy. And as if that wasn't bad enough, he's a serial adulterer, as well. Whether he physically let the little horsie out of the barn or not, he's cheated on you over and over and over again.

Definitely contact Dr. H. Start making plans to separate, for real this time.

What led you to go back 4 times already? How long were you separated each time?

Neak

I see what you're saying and I've read and re-read ML's exposure article.

He does NOT admit to any wrong doing. NOTHING. This is a very hard nut to bust open; even though I feel all this betrayal. I guess it's the nature of the gaslighting to make you doubt yourself. He is EMPHATIC that he is innocent. And really, saying to him that it makes me unhappy so stop is not a motivator to him.

He finally answered my questions about the woman whom he emailed and I'm satisfied that he hasn't anything going there. I do not know if she is someone who he liked and wanted to make a friend with. He claims no, but of course, there is the email which tells me that he wanted to send he something "cute". It's all so mind-bending.

Here's my current question:

I reinvested my IRA and now we have another problem. In order to buy
this other property we would have to cash flow it from current un-invested money (since the IRA is off the table) We have the money but if we are headed for D or a Separation then I don't want to complicate it further by this purchase. This is a house owned by a friend. My husband feels great obligation to her (she's a neighbor) since her young H died last year unexpectedly. It miffs me just a tad that keeping his word to her is so important to him. Now I also don't like saying I will do a thing and then not do it. She will be keeping the earnest money and can find another buyer, not so easily for the property has problems and financing would no to be possible without her doing a lot of work she cannot afford to do. I am sympathetic but I can't see a way around it.

Today at lunch my H told me that the title company has the papers waiting. I have been stalling for about 4 days and saying to him that I just didn't know if I wanted to buy the house. I know he thought that I would come around soon enough. Today I told him that it was my position was that if he wasn't absolutely committed to me and doing the MB program (which we purchased in June and have started only 1 lesson) then I would not sign the papers. (Last week during a fight over the MB lesson he told me to shove M/B Up my A**)

He said he was committed. I said, but you have said that before (last year) and quit and just last week you told me to shove it up my a**, so I don't believe you and what could you do that would give me assurance that you'd continue. He had no suggestions.

While walking to my car I said that I'd like to have the coaching from SH since It was obvious to me that we need the structure and accountability. He said he didn't want that *&$%#@@*^%5. and that the coaching was *&%&*&*. So, I said, well I have your answer then and drove off.

I am quit certain he will buy (or try to buy) the house anyway without my consent and signature, which he has said he COULD you. My question is would I be out of line if I was to remove enough of OUR money (say 1/2 of it which would be mine in a D)to a safe location so he cannot pay for the house. This will send him into a purple rage. It's what he would rightly do if I pulled a stunt like this. Should I do this or is the fall out too terrible to contemplate.

thoughts anyone???

Consult a lawyer asap. Tomorrow morning, unless you can get some good legal advice from someone on here. DO NOT SIGN FOR THIS HOUSE!!!!

Why would you be ok with the other emailing situation just based on his word? It's to his benefit for him to get you to believe whatever he says.

And again. DO NOT SIGN FOR THE HOUSE!!!!!

Are you saying that your husband cashed in YOUR IRA without your consent? And so now you are wondering if it would be fair to move half of your money to a safe location?

I'm with neak, please schedule an emergency meeting with an attorney first thing in the morning.

But meanwhile, it may help your resolve to read this ---> What is GasLighting?