I probably need some help in what to do for plan a then. I am inviting her to lunch, asking her to go for a walk for breaks at work (since she is only 2 streets away), and I plan date night (although she feels we can't go every week). I guess she feels we can't spend the money on date night OR she doesn't want that much time away from kids. No since arguing about it so I can just make a tentative plan, invite, and see if she will say yes or no and if no... tell her maybe another time or ask would there be a better time for her.

The sad thing is... I don't fully know her true emotional needs. The first questionnaire she filled out a long while back she filled out wrong so it made no sense. I believe she has finally filled it out again, but we haven't gotten to it in counseling... I think I am going to ask her for it tonight.

I mean... I know the things she likes to do... but going to a movie where you cannot interact... does that meet an emotional need. I believe for her she may say it is recreational companionship... mainly because we both enjoy, but I thought recreational companionship was where you could interact as well and communicate some during the process... or at the minimum just be interacting together.

Anyway... I need to get that list and then look at how to meet them.

Let me go ahead and now list what I think her top 5 would be:

1) Admiration
2) Family Commitment
3) Honesty and Openness
4) Domestic Support
5) Affection

I am almost certain about top 3, but above that I know Sexual Fulfillment is probably last and intimate conversation is probably second to last.

In some ways she is like a guy... meaning doesn't much need for affection or intimate talking... or at least appears that way. Sure during courting days... and maybe that would come back.

But I remember reading I think where there are 3 Dr Harley want you to do that are considered the intimate ones right off the bat even if not top 3. Gotta go back to book.

Anyway... last night she came downstairs with me for about 30 minutes. 20 minutes of it was going over our budget and bills... is this meeting a need? Maybe Financial or Family Commitment. We do have to discuss and make agreements on what we need to pay / do. So could use help on if that 20 minutes is part of UA or not.

She did start conversation off with... I am sorry today was so rough. I just said I am sorry it was as well and then immediately went to asking her how soccer was for the boys and how the rest of her workday went... basically moved it off of anything that would lead to relational discussion. I can tell you in the non-distant past I would have taken her invitation and opened up in conversation that would have probably led no where... but I am avoiding that now.

Anyway... I am sure I will be back for more thoughts on how to meet needs.

I hear you on the DJ.

I have been listening to some of the recordings. I may need to become a member so I can search more specifically by topic. It is hard to be able to listen live so I catch the recordings as I can.

Here is a sample schedule I came up with for 15 hours:
*******************
Day No Hours Notes
1 1.75 (.25 Walk, .5 hours with just us at gym, 1 after kids in bed)

2 1.25 (.25 Walk, 1 after kids in bed.)

3 3 (.25 Walk, .75 lunch, 1 hour exercise at gym, 1 after kids in bed)

4 1 (1 hour after kids in bed)

5 1.75 (.75 lunch, 1 after kids in bed)
6 5 (Date Night)
7 2 (2 after kids in bed slightly earlier. )
*******************

I am not really super happy with it, but it showed we could get the time. Now she then said... when will we do laundry, clean house and all of the other things that have to get done? (We both work and kids have sports 4 to 5 days a week).

Since I didn't want to get into a debate or argument or fall into a DJ I simply said... we can be creative and figure it out and left it at that as she just briefly looked at it.

She also said she couldn't see us having date night 1 day every week, but 1 day ever other week. I didn't want to get into this either, but I believe her reasoning is two fold... money is tight and we currently have no family to help babysit and two she likes have all family together a lot so I believe she feels us being on date every Saturday or Sunday night would short change the kids. Now I don't totally agree we would be short changing them as I believe our marriage needs to be solid and that will do more for the kids than anything, but again I didn't think we could handle that conversation at the moment.

What I am not happy with about it is my wife is EXTREMELY tired and fades FAST after 9:00PM. Usually by the kids are totally put in bed and asleep it can be anywhere from 8:00PM to 9:00PM. So at night if our time starts at 9:00PM I am literally getting the worst part of her... she is tired... she doesn't think straight... she literally starts going glassy eyed. I on the other hand am normally solid until about midnight... but the point is... most of the time at week is late and I don't see any way around it.

And the other option is either taking kids out of sports or getting someone to take them while we go out, but I know she likes to be there for practices and I totally get this... so short of removing kids from their 1 sport hard to see much more time during week. My guess is many have made the hard decision to either remove kids from activities and gotten sitters during week or something.

Anyway... point is I could use some help in figure better ways to get 15 UA.

Also here were some random thoughts on getting 15 hours:

- Try to have 2 lunches together a week or 2 lunch breaksj together
- Try to have 3 or 4 walks a week.
- Have 1 hour after kids in bed at least 5 times a week
- Try to have exercise together at gym at least once.
- Consider taking 1 extra night of swim off so we can get the kids to bed early and have 2 hours of time.
- Make date night 5 or 6 hours... although longer than really desired it helps offset week
- Try to call one another at least a few times today... even if just for a few minutes. Not really lenghty UA time, but helps keep connected through day. Along with emails.
- Would much prefer larger blocks of time instead of the chopped up .25 walks, but is a start.
- When we lower counseling appointments we could increase lunches to 3 a week.
- We could plan a second short night out where someone watches kids and we go to coffee house or do what we want. Say someone comes to house at 7:00PM and we head out and come back at 9:30 or 10:00.

Keep it simple. Ask her how her day was. Start up a conversation about something she likes. Take an interest in her work. Take an interest in her. Compliment her. Buy her favourite treat. Download her favourite movie. Run her a bath. Take care of a job she hates. Leave her a jokey little note somewhere she will be surprised.

You can make *a* lovebank deposit without having her UA time at all. Think of it as drive by needs meeting. You won't be able to spend hours together pouring huge amounts into the lovebank until you get it started with a few little pennies. A constant stream of pennies. Think like her. What can make her day better?

You can indeed meet an RC need outside of UA time.

Domestic support on my list and it's an easy peasy one to meet in a slightly more intimate way than just doing laundry. If someone makes the home welcoming to me or just brings me a hot cup of something when I need it I appreciate it so much!



Perfect.

Asked her to lunch today and she said yes and that she wanted to go to her favorite place. So took her there.

Asked her about her day and asked her about the house she saw online that she would like us to look at and did a little dreaming. Talked about kids and work.

Early on she wanted to ask a question that could have led us down the wrong path.. she said... "as much as I am scared to ask this question... but are you really wanting to stop going to counseling"

I simply said I would really rather just enjoy our lunch together and not talk about that during lunch... she immediately said ok (not angry or anything) and then I immediately asked about her day and how soccer went with the boys last night and about the house she saw.

She feels that way because she is in withdrawal. She will have more desire for you to meet the intimate emotional needs when she is in love with you.

There are 4 intimate emotional needs that need to be met regardless of how she or you rank them. They are: Intimate Conversation, Affection, Recreational Companionship and Sexual Fulfillment.

Fill your UA time with these 4 emotional needs, regardless of whether or not she says she wants them. These are the emotional needs that cause people to fall in love.

You need to be planning 15 hours of Family Commitment (FC) each week as well as the 15 hours of UA. This will take care of her need to spend time with the kids. They will not be short changed. Here is a sample schedule I posted on another thread:

Sunday: Church, (4 hours FC)

Monday: mom babysits, dinner and shopping (4 hours UA)

Tuesday: gym night (4 hours UA)

Wednesday: dinner out with kids then play in the park (4 hours FC)

Thursday: gym night (4 hours UA)

Friday: game night with kids (4 hours FC)

Saturday: take kids to the pool (4 hours FC)
Susie from church babysits, eat out and go for a drive (4 hours UA)

I come with a heavy heart to share my wife has said she is going to walk away from marriage of 16 years with 3 children 5, 7, and 9. We already had a counseling appointment today for 90 minutes and she said she was going. Here is the gist of it and also the email I have sent to my church leadership. In there you will see what she says is her number one struggle from me:

<<
I am sharing based on how I heard things and how I understood it.

- She shared that she knows that her choice goes against God.
- She said she would meet with any or all of the people I have contacted (leaders).
- She said she understands that no one will give her a pass and no one will say it is God's will that she walk away from marriage.
- She said she agrees with my theological and my belief we should have strong boundaries. She just doesn't agree with application and feels she does have strong boundaries.
- She said that she is at a point where she is willing to accept the consequences of divorce and disobeying God... because she can't see it getting better.
- She said it is not what she wants and she knows it is not what I want and she knows it is not what God wants, but....
- She said she knows she should stay and work it through, but there is a hopelessness of it she is feeling.

I asked what it will take for her to stay and fight:

- Ultimately she kept going back to we have been in counseling for 15 months so she sees it as not able to improve... (so in the end I feel there really isn't anything I can do to persuade her to stay and fight.)
- Counselor told her that was a good question (what will it take) and asked her again.
- It comes down to she wanting to be trusted 100%.
- She seems to understand why there is some difficulty with trust, but she feels there hasn't been 100% trust for our entire marriage.
- I said that there has been growth by both of us, but my primary growth was with 3 core love busters many men struggle with. Counselor and wife both agreed there has been tremendous change there. Counselor confirmed there has been other growth as well in other areas. HOWEVER I know my growth had NOT been focused on just trusting her 100% yet... so I told her that is what I want to focus on.
- She said she wants to know that when she is talking with the swim coach or with her co-worker or with her boss that I trust that she will not allow anything to happen and she does have a boundary up... she is just friendly. She wants me to be able to ask questions about situations... but not with the purposes for "having to know" to "checkup" or "make sure she isn't doing anything wrong".
She said she felt like we reached out to Pastor and Wife and she feels they gave us all the tools to fix things and 6 months later we are not fixed so why would now be any different?
- I / we met with Pastor I believe 3 times over 6 months and she feels since I didn't continue to keep accountability or keep meeting with someone whether it be with Pastor or Elder that why would it happen now.
- She said she was talking to one of 3 ladies at least once every day and she said each and every time they kicked her butt and said she cannot walk away from this marriage, that it was not Biblical and that she needed to stay and make the marriage work. She was upset I was not involved in daily accountability and didn't do the same.
- She feels like I don't want people to know of anything that may make me look bad. (Yes... I don't want to look bad... who does. But I am willing to share anything and share my thoughts regardless of how it makes me look.) My marriage is too important.

So what can I do...

- Wife left the room and Counselor and I talked. He said... you have to come to accept that Wife has certain aspects of her personality and the way she interacts with men that you have to be OK with and trust her. He said we still hold the big things up like having one on one lunch with another man and other bigger examples, but the other things that make me feel uncomfortable I need to come to being ok with. He said he believes I can, but just like Wife has to show she is trustworthy and build that trust with me I have to show her I can accept these aspects without mistrust before she trusts in my actions. Of course none of this matters if she is not around for it to happen.
- I asked Wife to find the grace to allow us to continue working and allow me to work on that specific desire she wants... and not walk away. She did not say she would.
- I leave counseling today with no idea what is going to happen next.
- I don't know what I can do other than actively and willingly let her know that I am not going anywhere and willing to work on what she says she needs from me.

What Do I struggle with... (openly sharing what makes me look bad)

- To make it clear I have just as many struggles as my wife... probably more.
3 love busters I struggled with and have almost eliminated are (wife has confirmed I haven't been doing these for a while):
Demands
Disrespectful Judgment
Angry Outburst
- For years I allowed bitterness and resentment build up and this I know has hurt my wife as I know she didn't feel loved by me. It doesn't take away the actions she was taking that was doing the same to me, but I did NOT handle it right and allowed bitterness and resentment. I feel I have let this go and Counselor has told me he feels I have as well.
- I do have a struggle with trusting my wife. I think this is number 1 issue that I need to overcome for my wife... the one thing she clearly needs from me. In general I am a person that can trust others unless you break it or continue to break it. However in the area of matters of the heart I believe I have this self preservation or protection mode that puts me on high alert. Meaning once I have been hurt by my spouse I believe I get into this protection mode of not wanting it to happen any more. So I sort of feel I have to stay on top of it or to make sure we don't get back into that situation. I have valid reasons from certain actions to have trust issues, but I believe due to past pains going back to childhood and the protection mode I go into... it leads to things coming across too strong and simply as not trusting at all. I know Wife must feel totally untrusted and she is feeling like it can't change.

What do I need...

- I need 2 Godly men who feel led by God to be my accountability partners. Men who will be honest with me and challenge me and not allow any biblical compromise. Regardless of whether wife stays or goes I need this. I can't do this alone. And possibly in a men's group if one of these 2 men are part of one if wife is not at this point willing to attend a couples group.
- If Wife is willing... I pray that several of the women here will be willing to stand with her and support her on a regular basis as well... not compromising Biblical principles. To help give her the strength to be willing to continue the marriage.
- I need this spiritual battle over and my family in tact, my wife loved with her needs met and my children protected and loved by the two of us as one.
- If wife is willing... is there a life group we as a couple can go to and be open with and get support of other couples. I don't believe she is willing at this point, but I want to know of a group that would be accepting of us and willing to help be there with us.
- I feel so far from God right now... my own sins, my struggles, the pain... I need help in feeling his love.
- We need your fervent prayers... Wife does not see a way to reconciliation... she is tired... she is hurting... I am as well.
Thank you for your prayers
>>

So that was the email to my church leadership.

What can I do (without wifes willingness) to try and make this work. I don't think my plan a was working or going well enough. I struggled with trusting her and I know it comes out. Is there any hope?

I have been a Christian pretty much all of my life. I have always been an active church member, and am presently a church elder. I know a great deal about church discipline and it's application to Christian discipleship.

And I would never try to use that mechanism to solve conflicts in a marriage!

Do you really think your wife accepts her actions as being opposed to God, or do you think it is more likely that she is tired of you trying to deal to her from a stacked deck of moral superiority? You can't keep playing the God card on your wife.

MB offers you a plan for recovering your marriage. It isn't a smorgasbord. You can't pick out the pieces you like, and then turn to your church leaders for the rest. You might end up feeling like you did everything to save your marriage, but that is just deceiving yourself.

Is she still working with OM? Do you have spyware in place?

Plan A has nothing to do with displaying trust. Plan A is about being the best husband you can be. It is about doing things that make love bank deposits and not doing things that make withdrawals. You have been unsuccessful at increasing your account balance in her love bank, and remain seriously overdrawn.

I suspect that your attitude toward her has much to do with her giving up. She needs to see you as an equal partner. Instead, you keep assuming the role as the head of the household. Trying to act as the authority over her has drained her love bank. She is at the brink of rejecting the entire marriage model you present, because she sees no place in there for her, and thus no hope.

You need to try a real Plan A. Knock off being judgmental. Be fun instead. When your wife is in love with you again, she will enthusiastically resolve the relationship issues. But she will not be willing to work on these issues if she sees nothing in it for her. As I said before, I am a Christian, and so is my wife. We have a very strong marriage. We have recovered from multiple infidelities. But I have to say, if I were your wife, I would feel like running from you, too. You are way too pharisaical in your approach to things, and you are just not any fun to be with. Change that.

Eureka,

My wife has not had an interest in looking at Marriage Builders. Unless the counselor has told us to read it she hasn't. She did read His Needs / Her Needs and that took her 3 months to go through.

I however am very interested in marriage builders and the concepts so I am reading and trying to implement everything I can as fast as I can. I have read His Needs Her Needs a while back, but going through Love Busters now... which I wish I had read first back in March 2013 when we started counseling.

I have shared with my wife about Love Busters and what I see that I had been doing wrong with Demands, Disrespectful Judgement, and Angry Outbursts. She has said that in the last month to month in a half she has not seen any of those three. She clearly stated things are EASIER. Further down I will try to expand on what I believe is the core issue for her.

I didn't reach out for them to discipline... these are people she trusts and respects. We have know most of these people for 15+ years and they care about us. Maybe it comes across that way, but I don't want discipline... I want support to help us through the tough time and encouragement to continue forward as I am a 100% willing partner to work on whatever changes I need to make. I don't expect them to solve anything... but when we have people that love both of us and our children and there encouragement means a lot.

All I can go by is what she says... and she says she knows this isn't what God would want... BUT for her things are bad enough that she is willing to accept HIS forgiveness and the consequences than to deal with the struggle. SO I MUST determine what it is that is the struggle and FIX it from my end.

I think she is tired... I think she is hurt... I think she has switched off. I am tired... I am hurt... I just haven't switched off.

Our CORE issue has always been boundaries with the opposite sex. I have explained to counselor what my boundaries are (and they are in one of my first couple of posts). Counselor has stated he really didn't see any problems with my boundaries... but in the end my wife does NOT agree with them.

I am trying to really examine what it is that I do in regards to boundaries that has made it unbearable for my wife. One of her struggles is not being able to explain her thoughts OR I have simply had difficulty getting it or understanding it or even hearing it.

My wife is extroverted, very gregarious, very outgoing, playful person, and not very mindful of things. She will call other men baby, darling, and maybe some other names. Most men quickly become her friend and she tends to gravitate to men. She will tell you the same. She finds women catty or too much drama where men are less like that.

I lean to the introverted, attention to detail, and not considered outgoing UNTIL I know you and then I can be your best friend and loyal friend. I am very mindful of things. I have what I consider strong boundaries and don't go out with other women and don't call them pet names and the like.

Now... you mention "moral superiority". It is very possible I may have come across that way to my wife... especially with the disrespectful judgements I made in the past. Yes... I think strong boundaries are better than week... but I have learned that the way I shared this especially when it came out as demands or disrepectful judgments probably does make me seem "morally superior".

We both came from broken homes... my parents divorced and her parents did... her mom did 5 times I believe. So we have a stacked deck in that we have not had wonderful examples. But I don't believe the past has to control or dictate our future.

Let me expand on boundaries... although most everyone I know has said they don't see any issues with my boundaries... I believe she simply cannot do them to the extent I do, because of her personality...

AND let me put my heart completely out here as I think I have some deeper issues. I have been hurt many times with broken trust in the past. Not just some by my wife, but in big ways in childhood and early adulthood. I think I am allowing fear to control me.

So what if many people think my boundaries in general are good... if I am putting too much on my wife or making her feel like it is impossible for her to be her where is that going to get me.

She said she gets knots in her stomach when she is at work and she wants to eat lunch in the cafeteria and there are her coworkers (male and female) and she wants to sit and eat. I have managed to make her feel she is completely untrusted and doing something wrong by sitting at a cafeteria table with mixed company.

Or another example is she is going to meeting at 1PM where she and her project manager will be leading. She needs to meet with him at 12:30 to discuss the meeting before they meet with all staff. They have not had lunch and the natural thing to do would just meet at the hospital cafeteria, order a sandwich, discuss meeting and then head straight to meeting. Although I consider that ok as it is one of the "exceptions" rule. BUT... would it have made me "feel" uncomfortable. Yes... and I did tell her probably would have. She said although she knows she wasn't doing anything "wrong" and that she has no inappropriate thoughts or conversations she was sick to her stomach of it possibly happening if the PM wanted to meet quickly.

Another example. We had a teenage boy live at our house... a youth I mentored... back 7 years ago. I also led a boys small group. With Kelly's outgoing nature she always was hospitable and welcoming to the boys. After a while as we got to know the boys we would give them hugs when we saw them and so would my wife. I recall very vividly one day giving warning to my wife to be careful how she acted with these young men. Their hormones are raging and she is attractive and with her personality they may react. I think it is wise to be cautious of this, but what motivated me and what it made my wife feel like was terrible. She said later she would be sick to her stomach about giving one of our teen boys a hug. We went to his wedding and she was nervous about giving him a hug to congratulate. Why did I even give her any sort of advice about being cautions... BECAUSE I was a teenager he fell into the trap of falling for an older woman and through my interaction with that woman and that woman's interaction with me I had fallen in love with (as best I could at 17). Basically I lived what happened. Here comes my protection mode... I believe I was so fearful of that happening to me... my wife attractive... the young man was... with my wife's personality... I saw the possibility of something bad happening. So is it wise for my wife to be aware of the possibility of a boy having feelings like that for her... probably... BUT it made my wife feel UNTRUSTED and for years she felt bad for just being herself.

So... my fear and need to protect my heart has lead to behavior that has caused my wife to feel sick to her stomach and that she can't even be herself... like she has to stifle her personality.

I have proven I can change things about myself... by making changes to the three love busters. Now I have to focus on my ability to not let my fear / protectiveness of my heart to make my wife feel she can't be herself... be in her own skin... be who God has created her to be.

The light went on for me Thursday as to what I was doing... but now I have to work on not letting fear rule me and my actions. Yes... My wife has issues she has to work on... she is not perfect... but if my actions make her feel like she cannot be the person God created... her personality... then how can she be with me.

So now... she feels like I have known this all along... but I haven't... it just came clear to me Thursday. What did come clear was my 3 love busters and I attacked it. But because she thinks I have known this all along and because it has been an issue for almost entire marriage... that I should have fixed it. I can't debate her about it and I cannot argue with her about it as that is not what I should do.

What I did was when we talked today was to let her know that I NOW see that I am doing something that is causing her harm. I don't remember her ever saying she felt like she could not be herself and if she ever did that I was sorry I did not hear it or acknowledge or recognize it. But I do see that now. I asked her if she would give me 3 months to work dedicated on this issue and not go anywhere. I am a willing husband to work on my issues. She said she could not promise anything at the moment. I think she is researching the steps to divorce right now.

I think I am going to call Dr. Harley for direct counseling on this issue and what I should do. I would love for my wife to be around while I work on this so she can be a part of it and see it progress and give feedback.... but if she does decide to move out I don't know what the heck we do... plus the kids.

What steps should I start taking... other than obviously working on this fear / protection mode thing that leads to what it leads to.

No... I had tools in place an nothing was going on other than a business question. I can't find any evidence of anything going on.

Let me ask a question... Everyone here knows of people (MEN and WOMEN) who are very gregarious, very outgoing, everyone's best friend as soon as they meet... opposite sex and same sex acquaintances. Sometimes I feel like these people are doomed to being considered weak boundary people.

Or maybe I really don't get what is a proper boundary and what is not... I have to say that I probably have a skewed view on what they should be since I have such a fear and need to protect my heart. I believe when I try to really look at my inner thoughts... that I see those who are very gregarious and outgoing as more likely to get into trouble and affairs. My wife being one of them. Please help me have the right views. I know many things I believe are on track, because they are inline with much of what I have read her... BUT either my implementation or my internal view of it is off... it should not cause my spouse the pain she described.

I know you made a very long post, but let me pick this out for a moment.


What you did here was to lecture her. While your intent may be noble, the approach you took here was a love buster. My guess is that you do this A LOT and don't even recognize it.

I should know because I'm pretty good at it myself.

I appreciate your comment very much... I most definitely have done this for a long time... and I determined that issue about a month ago and have worked diligently and my wife has said she has seen my demands / disrespectful judgments / and angry outburst become almost non-existent.

I know I can make changes... but being able to see them is the first step. I couldn't see the above until I had read through part of Love Busters.

I didn't see how she was being made to feel until Thursday when it was the first time I ever heard it. Now one of her issues is NOT communicating her thoughts / feelings with me at all... she is now doing that. BUT am I a dollar short and a day late.

Thank you for your feedback... I agree as I look back... whether what I was trying to convey was wise or not I was never doing it right and it looks pharisaical.

At this point... how do you plan A when she is planning the steps to walking out the door. She is still in the house for now and don't know what she plans... but she has quit saying I love you back... she now just says all right. So should I continue to say I love you when I leave? Or end a call with her???

I suggest taking her out to dinner at a nice, quiet place. Let her do all the talking, and you mostly just listen. Don't talk about your relationship. Make the evening as fun as you can. Is that something you can do?

We had been having date night probably once every 2 weeks. Tonight is family night, tomorrow we go to my parents for 2 days, we come home Sunday to my daughters swim practice that usually she takes her to so I don't know if I could make it work. In the past when it was this busy she didn't want to as things were so hectic, but the only night this would work would possibly Sunday night. I can line up a babysitter and offer it and she can accept or turn it down.

She has clearly withdrawn the I love you so she is in full withdrawal mode and in her mind I believe is gone and just doing what is necessary for the kids.

At this point I need to hit plan a hard, but I need more advice and more details on this. I have seen a number of things about it, but I need as much as can be given to me.

I know family time has always been important so I am going to try and make this a very fun family night... games or something we can all enjoy.

But will try to see if she will go out Sunday. My fear is she will, but only for the purpose to tell me what she is going to do for separation... I don't think I can willingly help her do that.

Thanks for the responses, keep them coming. I am scheduled to spend time a little time on phone with one of the church leaders to talk about my personal struggles I need to end. Either way I am stopping it cold... but I need help in support in doing so.

Predictability is death, here. Do something that surprises her and shows that she is number one. Line up a babysitter right away. Family night is secondary to making some quick love bank deposits, as is visiting the in-laws. Don't make Plan A fit into your schedule. Fit your schedule around Plan A.

The only reason I have time to post to you right now is because my wife, who is a children's librarian, is late getting home from work. Her library is holding a teddy bear sleepover and she is busy taking pictures for the library's web page. You had better believe I'm keeping an eye on those teddy bears. They had best not try anything!