Hi, I'm a new member trying to understand how to apply the POJA.

My SO loves motorbike riding - it lets him let off steam and relax and is his number one favourite thing in the world to do. However, when he spends the whole day riding his bike and then has no time for me I feel neglected. I don't think it's fair of me though to ask him to give up doing something he loves so much and has such a passion for, and I think if I did he would just end up resenting me. He even talks about how much he is looking forward to teaching our kids to ride when we have them. Would it be in the spirit of the POJA for me to ask him that if he spends the whole day on sunday riding with his mates then the whole day saturday he must make time for me? Or is this just a "I'll do what you want if you do what I want next time" scenario? I don't see how one of us can end up not feeling like we've lost out in this situation. How does one find common ground here? It's not the bike riding per se that I don't agree with, it's that he will make sure he schedules time for his hobby but he doesn't put the same effort into scheduling time for me.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

The POJA means you find leisure activities that you enjoy doing together. Do you not enjoy motorcycle riding with him? If you did, that would be the best solution. But if you don't, the solution would be to find activities you BOTH enjoy.

You called him your "SO" and that is a red flag because people who live together typically have very independent lifestyles. They don't take the time to create blended lifestyles because the relationship is very temporary.

Basically, anything that comes before your relationship will come between you and it sounds like motorcycle riding does that.

Thanks for your reply. I have never tried motorbike riding, which I've told him I will try, but even without trying it I don't think I'll like it very much. So, just to clarify though, even if we find another activity we both enjoy (and say for example do together on a saturday), should I still tell him I don't appreciate his IB, or is it enough that he makes time for me but still goes on a sunday to ride?

I called him my SO because we are still only dating, and not living together. I also wouldn't dream of asking him to give up his riding while we are dating, but it won't be fair to pretend to be ok with it and then when we get married to turn around and say, btw, enough of that. He would then just feel like I've lied to him to get him to marry me.

Can people who are in MB and applying the POJA actually have independent activities that their spouses don't like? We are both used to living alone, and I know if he asked me to give up my gaming I would resent him. Is it a fair exchange then to allow each other a day off to do things apart, as long as we also schedule time together?

How much time do you spend together a week providing undivided attention?

MB recommends you to be each other's favorite recreational partner? I take it, that you aren't? Is that true?

BrainHurts,
We are in a long distance relationship right now, but every night we chat on the phone for a few hours and over the weekends we try to watch a movie together on skype. Apart from this, no, his motorbike riding is his favourite pastime, which he does with his (male) mates, and I suspect even if we were living in the same city it would still be his favourite thing in the world to do.
As mentioned before, it's not that I mind him riding his bike, it's just that on weekends when I would like his time, he will do all his chores and other obligations on saturday and then squeeze the movie (and me) in really late on saturday night so that his sunday is free for riding. I feel that he is prepared to make time for his bike but at my expense. At the same time, I don't want him to stop riding as he really loves it. I get the feeling sometimes that it's "out of sight, out of mind" - so when we aren't together he doesn't see me as a priority. In all other ways he is the most fantastic person and so kind and loving.

I've got to say, I don't think he is the best fit for you. Your interests are different and he has a 'this comes first' attitude to his hobby. I don't know but I don't think you are as married as that to your hobbies are you? It's fine for him to be but it does impact on his suitability for you.

Dr H says that you should spend 15 hours UA time alone together when married and 15 hours time together as a family. Counter in work and sleep - that doesnt leave much. You can pursue your own interests but you shouldn't 'love' it more than your spouse or spend much time on it. I don't think it is fair to ask him to quit either (he is single), but equally it's not fair for you to accept this future.

You should find out what your respective 'can't give ups' are before marriage - religion, politics, hobbies etc and ensure your future spouse shares them. Otherwise there is no PoJA.

Since you haven't even met, surely it's OK to take the exit ramp wothout a backward glance?



'Loving' is what people do for you. Not what people say to you. That wouldn't be good enough for me.

Read Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders. You need a buyer - someone who prioritises you above every distraction.

Hi Indiegirl,

Thanks for the reply - just to clarify, we have met, we just don't live in the same city. We see each other about every 3 - 4 weeks. Plus he's trying to find a job in the city I live in, so that's showing love and commitment?

But to get back to my original question about trying to understand the POJA - is saying to him that it's ok for him to continue his motorbike riding as long as he spends an equal or greater amount of time with me than he spends on his hobby in line with the POJA?

That is definitely the right book to read. It will help you understand how relationships develop while dating, and what should happen if a serious, long term commitment is in the future.

I applaud you for thinking about these things while dating. While you want to marry a buyer and be a buyer yourself when you marry, it is important to realize that all dating relationships start out as a meeting of two freeloaders, and progress through the renter stage to ultimately become buyers in a successful marriage. It is OK to be a freeloader or a renter while dating. Everybody progresses through these stages. What you need to be concerned about is when that progress becomes arrested. Dating is an interview for marriage, and not achieving buyer status is a failure of that interview.

So, I wouldn't be alarmed that you have different interests now. Rather, I'd be concerned if you don't see developing new joint interests that can some day be a foundation for a life together.

Not if you're married.

When you are married, your spouse needs to be your favorite recreational companion. If he enjoys his motorbike more than he enjoys being with you, then no, he should not be doing it.

Dr. Harley says that you can have your own recreational activity as long as:
1. Your spouse is your favorite recreational companion
2. You are getting your 15 hours UA
3. The activity is not done with a member of the opposite sex

Trying to trade activities, like you seem to be thinking of doing, is not POJA. "I'll let you ride your bike if you will spend saturday with me" is a very Renter way of thinking. Instead, the POJA would say that he can't ride his bike if it bothers you, instead you find an activity that you both enjoy doing together.

But, you are still dating. You should be Renters at this point, not Buyers. What I would be looking for, if I were you, is if there is a growing willingness on his part to put you before his hobby. You might even ask him, eventually, that if you were married if he would be willing to follow the POJA, even if it meant giving up the motorbike. If he is not, then he is not marriage material.

Mmmmmmm, not reaaallly. Giving you priority with his time would show love to YOU more and there is no way of showing commitment except with marriage.

To me, his trying to get closer to you is showing that HE loves you and is thinking of you as a long term prospect. Which obviously is what you want to see but it's not the whole bowl of fruit.

The problem is, his wanting to be with you is based on the current deal - that you seem OK with being sidelined for his hobby and that a future, with kids, would heavily involve said hobby.

He may say: "Oh to hell with biking; maybe you will like it but it is OK if you don't" when you come clean about your feelings (see the articles on Radical Honesty). Men also need less UA time than women, so he may give you more time once he realises you need it. If so, marvellous. However it is a potential fly in the ointment and one I wouldn't ignore.

I'm not sure what Dr H says about long distance relationships but if you write to him I am sure he would give you some great tips.

This is a great way to put it; you are looking for buyer potential which does gow over time. If he increasingly turns to you rather than biking, then great; if he increasingly turns to biking rather than you, then not. No need to put the hard word of 'you must quit' on him during the litmus test which is dating.

Also; try it. You might actually love it. I have tried and loved some surprising things that I didn't think I would like so it might be worth a shot.

But be honest if you don't

Have you read this? It's about long distancing dating and applying POJA while dating.
Choosing the Right One to Marry #2

Tell us what you think.

Thanks for all your replies

Yes BrainHurts, I did read that article. We only really tick point number 5, values - and are really different in our energy levels and social interest (I'm low energy, extreme introvert, and he's high energy sociable extrovert), and marginally different in intelligence and culture. But even so, whenever we are together we both have the best time. I've given up looking for Mr Perfect, and need to realise that men don't need to "tick all the boxes" and meet all the criteria of my Mr Perfect list of attributes - they just need to tick a few major ones and at the end of the day, just be able to make me happy.

Ok so update - bf was here over the weekend and I spoke to him about his bike riding and just "teased" him that he loves his bike more than he loves me - and he immediately said that he would give up his bike in a second if he had to pick between me and it - so that's great. He's even talking about marriage.

Actually the more time I spend with him the more I appreciate him. The biggest problem though is not the bike - it's that I earn more than him I have my own house and other property, and a really awesome job, and his job and salary isn't comparable to mine (although probably better than average). When he moves to my city he will only be able to afford a small apartment or small house. Since I have old fashioned values I want my man to be the head of the household - but since he won't be able to provide me with the same size house that I have now (and the space for my dogs), he would have to move in with me if we get married and not the other way around. I don't feel like I can let a man be the head of the household when it's my house. What does MB's say about that? Any advice on how to negotiate things like living arrangements in this situation? As some background, I also have been in two really bad relationships - one a few years back that was physically abusive as well as emotionally abusive (and took me a long time to recover from), and the most recent where the guy was just really controlling and manipulative. After the last one I now feel that I'm not willing to give up myself and give up my needs and control of my own finances etc again (it was so bad that although the guy earned less than a third of what I did he still told me how to spend my money, how to dress, what was allowable for me to do in my spare time, how to do my housework etc).

I'd read up on the financial support need. Its a common one for women. He may be willing to meet it - he seems stuck on you!

Why not move to a new house that's neither yours or his?

Hi again,

so an update - please help! As already mentioned, my bf and I have a long distance relationship and only get to see each other every 3 or 4 weeks. Things have been going really well lately and he's mentioned that he wants to pop the question, talk of rings etc, so it is pretty serious.

About 2 weeks ago we were deciding on our next visit, and planned it for this coming weekend - he was going to come to my town this time mainly because I'm going through a really tough time (I'm renovating my house and my builder ran off with all my money so for the past year and a half I've been living in a building site) - I asked my bf to come here to help me with some building problems among other issues that I could really use his support for. He agreed that he would come here this weekend and bought his ticket.

Then saturday he tells me that he forgot it was his friends wedding this coming weekend and that he isn't going to come. Furthermore, this friend of his is his ex fiance's brother, and his ex is going to be there at the wedding.

I'm really hurt because I really needed him and after telling me he would come help he is just dropping me. Also I'm not happy because he didn't even invite me to the wedding and give me the choice to be there with him - I would really have wanted to be included. And lastly I'm not happy that he's going to be around his ex.

My questions - am I being totally unreasonable to not want him to go to the wedding? And, how can I ask him to keep his commitment to see me this weekend without making demands?

Did you tell him this? What was his response?

No, you are not being unreasonable, but I don't think he can read your mind, either.

This is a POJA problem, and you need to educate him. He is dictating a solution. Don't be a dueling dictator. You need to tell him that you are not happy with this, and want to find a solution that both of you are happy with. In all likelihood, he would be fine with having you go with him to the wedding, but figures that breaking his commitment to you to go there is only compounded by additionally expecting you to travel to him.

You need to have a calm conversation with him about this, and strive to find the win-win solution.