Hi Everyone-
Long time no see! Things have been going well for my husband and me, until this morning when I saw all the images that had been downloaded on his computer

We have been in recovery from infidelity for 9 years. I had an EA and he had multiple PAs which were part of a sex addiction. We've been in counseling, 12 step programs, and were posting here frequently in the beginning. Things seemed to be looking up--- it was a very long process--- but now I feel like we're right back to where we started. It is so frustrating.

I confronted him this morning and he says that is has nothing to do with me. He still loves me; he likens the porn to looking at art. He says it is part of him, like a hobby, that started long before he knew me and he doesn't want to give it up.

Obviously I know all about Dr. Harley's stance on porn so I think my husband's position on the topic is dangerous. Also, since my husband has a history of PA's, I'm worried that porn is the top of a slippery slope. My husband disagrees.

It is true that my husband comes to me for sex and I have not found him to be indifferent or his drive to be any lower than usual. So, my husband's point is that it doesn't affect "us" so why not let him look?

If I hadn't found the images on his computer, I wouldn't have known anything was wrong. He is affectionate and kind to me.

So... should I let it go?? I am certainly not "enthusiastic" given his history, but I don't know how to explain to him how it's hurting our marriage.

Thanks everyone-
Saturn

Saturn, is that really a serious question?

I'm pretty sure you know the answer.

Saturn,

If he refuses to give up porn then you should consider preparing for separation.

He needs to let it go. The default position in the POJA is to do nothing and that is exactly what he should do. You are not enthusiastic about his porn and you never should be! The most harmful thing you can do to your marriage is capitulate on this issue. That is how incompatibility and resentment is created.

Is your H on board with MB?

It seems he hasn't given up his SSL and IB....crucial to recovery, if you ask me....

Thanks guys-

Please help me find the words to explain to him how it's hurting us. Since he is not pulling away from me, and his attention and sex drive is normal, he seems to have the facts behind his point that it's irrelevant to our relationship. He says he loves me, he finds me beautiful, and in no way does he compare me to the woman in the images.

As Mel already pointed out, his "facts" are irrelevant because you are not enthusiastic about it. That in and of itself is reason for him to stop.

here are the words: "I am not enthusiastic about you watching porn." You don't have to get lost in the weeds with justifications. Just tell him to stop it.

Here are some good radio clips of Dr. Harley explaining why porn is harmful, the contrast effect.

Radio Clip on Porn
Radio Clip on POJA'ing Porn

Thank you very much, BrainHurts, for the radio links- I appreciate the time you spent searching for them for me! You guys are wonderful

I told my husband last night that I wasn't enthusiastic and that I felt really depressed about his porn use. He replied first by apologizing for hurting me, and then went on to point out how far we've come in our relationship these past few years. He emphasized that he loves me and would never have another affair. He repeated that it is just like art appreciation, it is not sexual and he is not using it to the point of interfering with our relationship (he is right; I hadn't noticed a drop in his attention to me.)

I waited, then asked "does this mean you'll stop looking at porn?" He was quiet for a while and then said that he was a flawed man and to please not give up on him. He wouldn't say much more than that.

My gut feeling says that he will continue, but be more careful in hiding it from me.

I spent quite a bit of time in CoSA (a 12-step program for spouses of sex addicts) and this group really frowns upon snooping or monitoring the sex addict's behavior. They consider it a waste of precious energy and encourage spouses to pour that energy into self-care instead. So I'm not sure what to do at this point. I feel like my husband is on the top of a terrible downward spiral... although things are good now, I have a feeling this is a warning that we are in for rocky times ahead.

Thanks for listening-
Saturn

Have you ever considered using Marriage Builders? I am really surprised that you have been here this long and haven't recovered your marriage. You don't use the POJA; you don't use most of Dr Harley's principles.

COSA doesn't know how to save marriages, MB does. Do you want help in your marriage or not? Yes, you are in for very rocky times if you refuse to stop the porn. Just stop the porn. Hold your husband accountable as MB suggests.

Dr Harley addresses your problem in this article:

What to Do When Your Spouse Has an Addiction to Pornography

What's their success rate? Or is it more of a place for unhappy people to share?

See, the no snooping thing makes no sense to me. You're left taking the mercy of an addicts word on what you decide to do with the rest of your life.

It would also be very difficult for your husband to break with his addiction if you were so complacent. Just apply it to something you yourself struggle to have self control over.

See if I'm on a diet and I'm serious, I would ask people to keep an eye on me and not hide anything. That's because when there''re eyes on me it increases my self control and makes the temptation inaccessible.

If however there's a room I can go into in unmonitored and do as I please - well I may resist the chocolate cake on the table for a while, but eventually I'm going to take a bite. No one will know. One bite won't show on my hips. Then it turns into Michael Rosens poem about the chocolate cake and I decide I care more about the cake then I do about the people trying to help my diet.

An addiction is so much more powerful a temptation than having a liking for cake. You'll get nowhere giving him the privacy to indulge in it whenever he wants.

Dr H is not just a successful marriage counsellor he also really understands addiction. He ran the states largest chain of addiction clinics. He knows that you don't have a second love when you are an addict. You only love the addiction.

So without an agreement for it to stop, you'll never have a marriage. He's great at tips for motivating addicts too.

Hi MelodyLane and indiegirl-

Thank you for your comments. I think CoSA's policy of "no snooping" comes from the realization that addicts will go to amazing lengths to feed their addictions, and a normal person would exhaust him/herself trying to keep up. CoSA is an excellent program for maintaining the emotional health of the spouse of an addict, and most of its policies align beautifully with MB. I think "no snooping" is the only place where there is a difference.

I know my husband is using porn, and is unwilling or unable to give it up. My next step is to figure out how to "hold him accountable" as Melody suggests. I have already had the discussion with him that this hurts me, so I now need to figure out what my boundary consequence will be.

I am reserving separation/divorce for an affair, which has not happened, so I need something a little less extreme than that.

Thanks,
Saturn

Saturn,

If he refuses to stop then separation would be your only option.
But he probably already knows that you won't leave him, which is why he continues irregardless of the pain it causes you.

COSA's policy of "no snooping" is terrible advice for addicts and for marriages. Bad behavior always thrives on secrecy and porn use is no different. I would point out that your husband doesn't need SA to stop his addiction. What he needs is to remove the opportunity to watch porn. Dr. Harley is a clinical psychologist who managed a chain of treatment centers and he would tell you this.


You have no boundaries, though. A boundary would be: he stops or you separate. He doesn't need to give it up because you haven't ever held him accountable. You won't snoop, you won't remove his ability to watch it. So here you are YEARS later with the same problem. Unbelievable!


This is conflict avoidance which I think has characterized your marriage. This is why you find yourself NOT in a recovered marriage years after the fact. Your husband won't take it seriously until YOU do.

Please read. Conflict Avoidance is the Kiss of Death

He had multiple affairs because you never held him accountable. What you describe above is a clear case of enabling. Like Harley says, "its hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler."

If you won't snoop, then how do you know he is not still having affairs?

That is some crazy logic: "don't snoop because I might find out the truth and it would exhaust me!" That is not a solution. That is a plan to bury your head in the sand and enable the porn user.

The problem with that logic is that you can't resolve the problem if you don't HAVE THE FACTS. Complete transparency and a plan to completely eliminate the porn use are the only ways to resolve the problem.

Hi again MelodyLane-

You raise some excellent points. Back when we were recovering from his PA's, we put transparency in place. I have all his passwords and he has mine, full access to his computer and cell phone (that's how I noticed it!) He is accountable for his time- there are no vague "I have to work late" nights, etc. I'm pretty sure there is no PA, but I'm worried that his return to porn is getting the ball rolling again.

I will dust off the old "Plan B" I prepared years ago.... sigh.