OK I see - it doesn't have a success rate because the point of it is to support people who wish to stay in a bad situation - success is not the goal.

If that's true it is VERY incompatible with MB. This is not a marriage at all costs program. This program believes that aiding your spouse's weaknesses and remaining in abusive situations is not going to help anyone be happier.

Have you considered Plan B? It is a controlled separation where you don't return to the marriage unless the conditions for a happy marriage are met.

Hi again indiegirl-

Thanks for your comments. The success rate of marriage where one spouse is a sex addict has shown to be best when a combination of 12-step programs and counseling is used (a study of 100 couples over a 7-year period).

http://www.jenniferschneider.com/articles/couples.html

That's an old study but pretty comprehensive. Anyway, yes I am brushing off my Plan B. I didn't have to use it last time- my husband complied nicely with the MB program (he even used to post here to get help, back in the day...)

Thanks,
Saturn

But your marriage is not successful, that is our point. YOUR HUSBAND STILL USES PORN! Those of us here who used this program are in successful marriages. Dr. Harley has numerous porn addicts over on the private forum who are in recovery using these concepts.


The issue I see here is that you don't use Marriage Builders principles in your marriage. I am not sure what he is complying with if he doesn't even use the policy of joint agreement and still watches porn.

I don't think you will need to use Plan B if you will just step up here and insist he stop it and hold him accountable. You should work together to remove all opportunities for him to view porn. Anything that comes before your marriage will come between you.

Hi SaturnRising, from your posts it sounds like your husband is only thinking about porn from HIS point of view and not yours. He seems to understand that his viewing porn hurts you, and he's sorry about that; however, he seems to want to solve the problem by having YOU adopt HIS point of view: because porn isn't affecting his sex drive nor his affection towards you, it should be ok with you.

Does he understand that dismissing your feelings about anything, including porn, is harmful to your marriage?

If he doesn't understand that, you need to explain that dismissing your feelings will, as Melody wrote, lead to resentment on your part, and unresolved resentment will eat away at your marriage.

If you explain that to him, and he continues to hold to his position of using porn, he is either addicted (which I think is the case), or he doesn't really love you. If he claims to love you but doesn't think he's addicted, then he's rationalizing away his addiction, and I think your best option for dealing with that is as others have said, separation. That's the one thing that may shock him into action. Otherwise, again as others have said, you're enabling him.

He's having an affair with pornography. ALL of his physical and emotional needs for intimacy should be met by you, and only you.

Thank you KeepLearning- This is exactly what I needed to hear. It's hurting our marriage because my feelings are hurt. I was focused on the porn- not my needs- missing that big piece. I will talk to him again tonight and frame the discussion around that aspect- perhaps I will get a better response from him.

Thanks again!
Saturn

Everyone in that study is designing their own plan though. Some of them have enforced effective boundaries which would see them leave if not adhered to, others do not. Some of the addicts want to be romantically monogamous while others want to remain bisexual! That's why x per cent say they are happy and x per cent say they are not - because the conditions are different in each case.

MB works 100 pc of the time when correctly applied. Porn cannot possibly be present in a marriage if you hope for that marriage to survive so you should make NO PORN an unbreakable boundary and enforce it with separation.

Not only does it hurt you, but it also hurts his romantic love for you. I realise he wants you to believe (and probably believes himself) that the porn doesn't affect how he loves you but it is meeting his key needs in a far more effective way than you can. Even if intellectually he regards you as more valuable than some screen fantasy - beneath our intellect we have animal brains. Brains which regard any porn episode or orgasm as a successful mating. It's the exact same result as an affair.

You get sidelined and his priority is not you. This is the cause of every divorce.

Besides which, as you've already found out - even if it were not the same as an affair; it causes affairs. These days you don't even have to go to a different website, you can call the porn actress directly and arrange a hook up.

Anything he places before you will kill your marriage. You don't want him ogling 18 year old bodies when you're grandparents. Nobody wants that even when in their twenties. It's not loving and it's not marriage.

Thank you indiegirl for those wise words. I'm hoping this thread and the discussion is also helping other hurting souls out there...

I talked again with my husband last night, using KeepLearning's insight plus a couple tidbits from my discussion with our counselor yesterday. It went much better.

My husband has agreed to give it up. He recognizes that he's addicted. We talked about consequences if I find it again (he moves out). We will set up accountability software on his computer and cell phone. He recognizes that he may slip up and an intervention may be required, and my Plan B is ready to go if necessary. The talk ended with a hug; he thanked me and apologized for letting me down again.

I know this is just the beginning...
Thanks,
Saturn

All sounds like the right direction!

That is a great first step, SR, and I am happy that you now GET IT. However, will the accountability software PREVENT him from slipping up?


buh-loney! He has a PLAN to "slip up" so an "intervention" will be required. I would strongly emphasize to him that he better have a plan to NOT slip up and you both find a way to make sure it will be almost impossible.

What are the opportunities he have to "slip up?" Discuss those opportunities and eliminate them all. Let him know there is a ZERO tolerance.

What has he been told about Plan B?

Hi again MelodyLane-

He posts and reads here, so I can't go into detail. He doesn't know what my Plan B is. He knows the MB program and is a smart man, he could probably figure it out, but I haven't told him anything.

Porn is SO HARD to eliminate. The accountability software has a filter, so it will block most sites, but there is always the low-tech route (magazines and DVDs). Many mainstream movies have soft porn scenes which can be even more erotic than the hard-core stuff- those are hard to avoid. What he needs to do is undergo a spiritual renewal to get the motivation to avoid this stuff himself. We are working on that- I don't have an answer yet.

Thanks,
Saturn

I'm going to see if one of Dr. Harley's home course programs will help us with this.

So what is the plan to eliminate all these gaps? That is my point. You and your husband need to be discussing every possible eventuality and find a way to eliminate it. A spiritual renewal will not achieve that.

That is how an alcoholic withdraws: he gets the alcohol out of his life and habitually avoids it.

I'm looking at the MB courses and don't see one for addiction- is there one that I'm not seeing?
Thanks,
Saturn

There is not a separate course. The courses are the same for all couples.

If he's smart, he might be interested in a Psychology Today article, "Porn-Induced Sexual Dysfunction is a Growing Problem." I couldn't find the original article on their website, but I found a copy here. It explains what happens on a physiological level to the brain of a porn user. It might provide additional help with motivation to change. The comments that appear after the article are good too.

Good luck!

Thanks again KeepLearning!

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember from my time here years ago that Dr. Harley said MB principles don't work well with an active addict. The addiction needs to be under control first.

I think someone said that Dr. Harley is running addiction clinics- is that correct? Is there a separate website with that information on it?

Thanks,
Saturn

You probably don't realize it, but it's very disrespectful to your spouse to make statements about what your spouse needs spiritually, religiously, psychologically, etc. It depicts you as the one with the "enlightened perspective" who could help your spouse if they would only listen.

You're right, thanks for catching that markos!

Her is his advice for porn addiction

Basically, his advice to porn addicts is: stop it! The next step is to make sure the addict has no access to porn and is held accountable. The program for porn addicts is the regular program.