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I suggest that if that is his response, you say nothing and prepare for a separation.
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Yes. Its an overwhelming notion. "Stuff" starts erupting in my head:
Where will I go? Who can I count on? How will I survive? How will I stand the pain? What will happen to my family? Does he love me enough to step it up or will he give up for IB life? etc.
Last edited by graceful2b; 08/06/14 04:58 PM.
BW 58 WH 61 married 35 years 2 adult children 2 grandchildren
"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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I totally understand all that "stuff" that you start thinking about. I understand the overwhelming feeling. For me, I was a stay-at-home, homeschooling mom of 6 kids with some college experience, but no degree. Separating was one of the most terrifying things I ever did.
But you got to set the bar high. He'll only reach as high as he has to.
If he will NOT join you in figuring out UA, then your marriage will never recover and you will be better off on your own.
So, start answering some of those scary questions that come to mind. Where will you go? How will you make a living? Etc ... Plan.
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Prisca, how did you roll out your separation?
I have 3 brothers, a sister and Mother. Cannot count on them.
My work and attempts to spend time with hubby and grandchildren have separated me from female friends.
It seems I'd have to walk into a new life completely alone.
BW 58 WH 61 married 35 years 2 adult children 2 grandchildren
"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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It seems I'd have to walk into a new life completely alone. But you are alone now. You can have a full rich life living apart from him. You can spend time with your kids and grandkids, go to church, join a gym. There is so much you can do. Your quality of life will be immensely better than what it is not. Have you read this article: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2264789#Post2264789
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Yes, I've read that article several times. This past year or since my husband left dojo he is less disconnected and does not 'defend' himself or counter me. He comes across as supportive. Its a dilemma.
BW 58 WH 61 married 35 years 2 adult children 2 grandchildren
"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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Over the weekend we talked with my brother. Last summer we purchased our parents beach house together to keep it in the family. We live 700 mi away. My brother lives nearby the house and expected to deal with routine maintenance.
My brother and his wife enjoy visiting the coastal area. The sale transaction finally went thru last November. We'd been paying my Mom for several months to help her out after my Dad died last spring.
Our first visit I figured we'd discuss any changes we were going to make and ideas about any decorative changes. I was shocked to see my sister-in-law had already painted and started moving in new furniture and ridding old furniture. We'd asked her to stop and allow us all to plan together in collaboration. We also asked if they'd keep us posted. I really did not hear much about anything. I figured no news meant nothing was happening as discussed.
Our recent visit we found it was more of the same in terms of changes. Its not that the look is bad. But for me it did not matter if I liked it, didn't like it or was neutral---they were not working in partnership.
I sent my brother an email recently and asked that they work with us in collaboration. I even wrote out a process we could possibly work thru parallel to Dr H's domestic responsibility form.
When we talked with brother and his wife on Sunday they accused us of attempting to control them. All their arguments seemed backwards. They do not want to keep us informed. They want to function independent and felt we needed to have trust in them without being accountable to us! If they were to send us an email now and then or share maintenance etc this would be to much trouble.
My husband was supportive and also taken back by my brother and his wife. I've had these weird types of fall out with various family members all along. I didn't think I had an issue w/my brother and thought my brother would comprehend an collaborative approach to our partnership.
Still I figured I could not keep just going along with them when it was hurtful to me. I want a voice and I want to be cared for as a whole person and not a made up person. I believe its actually been revealing for my husband to witness this type of treatment I've gone through and that he's experiencing too.
BW 58 WH 61 married 35 years 2 adult children 2 grandchildren
"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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Yes, I've read that article several times. This past year or since my husband left dojo he is less disconnected and does not 'defend' himself or counter me. He comes across as supportive. Its a dilemma. Just not supportive enough to sustain a marriage ...YET. And that is the issue. You have been at this for a very long time, grace! I seriously doubt you are going to persuade him to get on board unless you separate for a while. What do you have to lose? He either gets on board and you have a great marriage or you set yourself up to be in a better position to create a wonderful, full life without him. That is win/win for you!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I like the package you present ML. I'll start by discussing the UA time and so on with him and see by action where this gets us.
Do I mention the notion of separation or do I whip it out and 'go' at some point?
BW 58 WH 61 married 35 years 2 adult children 2 grandchildren
"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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I like the package you present ML. I'll start by discussing the UA time and so on with him and see by action where this gets us.
Do I mention the notion of separation or do I whip it out and 'go' at some point? I would write him a nice "Plan A" letter telling him how unhappy you are, listing out what you need to make you happy. I would put on that list: UA time of 20 hours a week out on dates. Give him about a month to get on board and if he doesn't then move out. That way you have a month to find a nice, cozy apartment for yourself! Maybe get a 1 year lease. Then in one months time, just tell him on moving day you are moving out.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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And be sure and attach a UA time schedule to your letter. Put the ball in his court!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Then in one months time, just tell him on moving day you are moving out Do not even hint at the separation before then. It will come across as a threat.
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Just not supportive enough to sustain a marriage ...YET. And that is the issue. You have been at this for a very long time, grace! I seriously doubt you are going to persuade him to get on board unless you separate for a while. I agree! We've watched your posts to Dr. Harley for a long time, grace. We seldom or never see your husband posting to him, asking questions, figuring out what to do about his marriage. He hasn't made this priority number one - and until he does that you can't save your marriage on your own. A good man will usually rise to the occasion when confronted with no choice but to do his part in marriage, or be separated from his wife. I actually heard a great radio show where Dr. Harley said this awhile back, and that's why he recommends separation as that last resort - in the end it's often what it takes for a man to finally make his decision.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Thank you MelodyLane, Prisca, and Marcos.
Your feedback gives me more specific direction in our case. My husbands day is organized around getting through his work schedule. When this becomes his primary focus its hard to simply stop the train and reorient ourselves. And its up to me.
Last night felt like an attempt to stop a fast moving train breezing by me at full speed. Now the train is slowed down enough to at least maybe know I'm standing there! This upcoming month will be a testament to whether he can stop, get off and join me.
I am going to post to this thread each day for a month. I want to reflect our ups and downs here in full view. Mainly because this is not easy for me and even a bit scary and if this truly goes in a direction of separation I want help in case I start making up stupid excuses myself. I know I know I don't have control over another human being and the choices they are going to make. It's hard to "own" that in this case I am likely not enough.
Anyway, last night I called my husband at the office at 4pm. He was having an administrative afternoon. I asked when he'd be home and he was not clear. Basically when he completed all his work he'd set out to do. In the end he said it would be ~7 pm.
After positing here and taking in ML suggestion we 'go out' and 4X4--- I'd thought since it was early evening we could go out to dinner. But after this call I took out something to thaw for the grill. I'd even thought about just leaving and going out on my own! It was so quiet in the house and I'd worked from home all day and I felt lonely for life around me.
Then my husband called back an hour later and he said he was on his way! He'd got done what he needed to get done. It takes about 40 minutes to drive home. Now I'm trying to think of other ways we can have UA time. You know we'd followed the UA time format along time but the only thing that lingers about those efforts is the notion of calling me and letting me know he'd on his way and now he sort of has a be at home limit by 7:30 pm.
Still UA time is a moving target. When he got home I had dinner started. I explained I had thought about going out so we can have better quality UA. He hates to be lectured to so I did not go into a diatribe about 4X4. I'll work into the details ie letter etc.
He'd brought home one of his scrub hats that was falling apart. He likes the way it fits and wants me to make a proto type. He sat down at the table while waiting for dinner and started undoing the threads so I could use the debri as a sewing pattern. This quickly became tedious and focused work. I attempted to engage him but he could not hardly acknowledge me. It became a struggle. Inside I felt stung. I suggested he use a pair of scissors and quickly snip it apart--which would work fine. He was locked and loaded into what and how he was going to do this project. He had no idea how his seeming indifference was affecting me.
He could see dinner was done but I waited a bit to state dinner was done. He could not stop what he was doing. These situations are always dilemmas because I can point out how this is for me and our relationship but afterwards the new silence smells like a rotten egg. So I dish up and start eating myself. This does it. He sets his work aside and he too dishes up but takes along time walking around the kitchen getting various sauces to splash on his food to the point I am done eating already. Lonely silence.
I'd already talked about getting out for a walk after dinner. I asked him if he wanted to do something different? He said "sure." I suggested we drive to a area with restaurants and shops (outside out neighborhood) and walk around check menus of new restaurants etc. Something a little more lively.
BW 58 WH 61 married 35 years 2 adult children 2 grandchildren
"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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He'd brought home one of his scrub hats that was falling apart. He likes the way it fits and wants me to make a proto type. He sat down at the table while waiting for dinner and started undoing the threads so I could use the debri as a sewing pattern. This quickly became tedious and focused work. I attempted to engage him but he could not hardly acknowledge me. It became a struggle. Inside I felt stung. I suggested he use a pair of scissors and quickly snip it apart--which would work fine. He was locked and loaded into what and how he was going to do this project. He had no idea how his seeming indifference was affecting me.
He could see dinner was done but I waited a bit to state dinner was done. He could not stop what he was doing. These situations are always dilemmas because I can point out how this is for me and our relationship but afterwards the new silence smells like a rotten egg. So I dish up and start eating myself. This does it. He sets his work aside and he too dishes up but takes along time walking around the kitchen getting various sauces to splash on his food to the point I am done eating already. Lonely silence. This is a very good example of why UA at home does not work for the vast majority of couples.
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Its hard to register H 'enthusiasm.' I ask him. He says: "If you are enthusiastic, I'll do it with you" Or something like that. Its not clear where he is at on the spectrim. In other words I am responsible for our collective feeling about this event.
We hop into the car and there is no effort to talk. Walking around is pleasant in of itself. Only convo is brief and I brought up the subject.
At home again, he sits down with the scrub hat and starts ripping again. Heavy duty focus. I'm not there but I am sitting right next to him. Ouch.
I disrupt his focus and start to talk. I say I'd hoped to continue UA time. He said he thought it was over. Like we'd gone to a 1 hour class. (I'm pumping but the well has run dry)
BW 58 WH 61 married 35 years 2 adult children 2 grandchildren
"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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I explained we needed uA time that included IC, A, RA and SF. He knows the program.
Earlier he'd brought up attending karate tournaments. How would I feel? I said I would not entertain any individual activities until we develop our UA time.
BW 58 WH 61 married 35 years 2 adult children 2 grandchildren
"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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I said I would not entertain any individual activities until we develop our UA time. Good. Stick to your guns on that.
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Here is a note he left this AM:
Thanks for working on the scrub hat. Sorry I'm not fulfilling your needs, but I'm truly am trying and I do care for you.
Love,Husband
BW 58 WH 61 married 35 years 2 adult children 2 grandchildren
"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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I wish his "trying" was a specific plan he stuck with.
In his wallet is my list of affectionate things I like. That's where it sits.
BW 58 WH 61 married 35 years 2 adult children 2 grandchildren
"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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