I started a new post because this is a new issue with my WW. My wife moved across country to be with me 4 years ago, and has only made friends with my friend's girlfriends. These friends of mine are high school friends, partiers, some live at home.

4 years later I rarely see them and have little interest in them. I've outgrown them and don't enjoy going out around 11pm, I'd rather be in bed (I'm almost 31 and enjoy gardening, my mornings, and can't deal with hangovers anymore). Most of their girlfriends have left my friends or they dumped them; however, my wife is still friends with these ex girlfriends (there are 2 specific girls).

These girls in my mind are terrible influences on her. They do drugs, party a lot, etc. When we used to all go out together, my wife and I would not participate in the drugs and would usually call it a night around 12-1am, leaving the rest of the group to abuse themselves til 5-6am. Since we married, I made the terrible choice of letting her go out by herself, and naturally she started doing coke and drinking more but since D-Day, has a two drink maximum and no drug rule. I have been with her every time except once when she went to meet up with a girlfriend after work from like 6-830pm. One of the girls' birthdays was last weekend so I agreed to go out to the bars with them on the condition that I chose the time we left. When we left at 1am her friends all gave me grief "really? it's saturday night, live a little won't you?" I told them "We've celebrated your birthday all day together, I hope you've had a good time. We are going home because we have a big day tomorrow. Have a great rest of your evening."

When we got married, I told my wife I wanted to expand our friend base to more solid couples and married people and that the single people are fun here and there, but we should focus on married friends and people who are more like us. She had a hard time with this, said "I've had such a hard time making friends and now that I have, you want me to abandon them?" I told her that we should just meet new people and if the old friends want to join they can (which they wont, they go to 2 or 3 of the same bars every weekend and refuse to do anything different). I told her they would lose interest in us if we didn't do what they wanted to do because they are selfish alcoholics and druggies.

My question is; how do I implement the power of joint agreement if she wants to drag me to these 2 or 3 same old bars with the same old people literally 3-4 times a month, nearly every Saturday night? How do I negotiate, how do we compromise? I feel like I have to make demands but I know that is a Love Buster. Maybe I just make alternatives suggestions/plans? Do I ask her what her ultimate goal is in her social life? She has already admitted that since D-Day she is really questioning her friends and seeing them as bad influences. She told them she was done partying and to please not offer her any drugs. I know this is so stupid because I told her that it's going to be around and you'll want to do it. Again, how does she stop the behavior without me making love busters (demands, getting angry, etc.)?

By the way, her birthday is Friday and we're having a party. I'm telling her we can have alcohol but no drugs allowed. Please give me advice on how to control this situation without demanding she do this or that.

POJA states that if there is not an enthusiastic agreement than do nothing. So if you do not enthusiastically agree with these friends than you do not go out with them.

It is not disrespectful to tell her you do not like her friends because they do drugs and drink heavily. You do not want to go out with them because of this.

Telling her that they are bad influences on her is disrespectful.

Thanks 1995. My wife is almost to the chapter on POJA in the SAA book. I'm waiting until she reads the chapter first, because I know that if I introduce the idea, she will feel controlled.

You make a great point. I need to tell my wife that I don't want to be in with a crowd who is into substance abuse because I'm looking for friends who can contribute to the success of my life and I don't think these people fit that bill.

The issue is that I am a smoker and light drinker so she would probably give me grief if I continue these things just to prove that I'm not sincere about not wanting to hang out with this crowd.

Does her medication mix with alcohol?

Fair nuff Jedi... no mind tricks.

Jedi how do I talk to her about this without getting angry or any other Love Busters? She just called me at work and I asked what her expectations were for the party it went like this:

Me: So who are we inviting over for your birthday and what would you like to do?

Her: Everyone, all the friends. We're just gonna drink beer and hang out, maybe cook food, and if everyone else is wanting to go out, then we'll go out.

Me: Ok so should I tell my friends to expect to eat or not?

Her: [typing at work and mumbling what she's typing...] Ummm... I mean... uh... well.... I'll let you know Friday if we're going to cook, let me think about it.

Me: Ok that's fine [as she continues typing and mumbling]... well it sounds like you're really busy at work so I'll just let you go [not in the nicest voice possible, but in an annoyed voice].

Is this a love buster? I'm sure I could have handled it better but I'm struggling so much right now. Please help!

That is not "control," though. Control is to MAKE her do something. Control is NOT when you don't agree to allow yourself to be forced into doing something against your will. If she pushes you into going out with them, then that is control.

And the worst thing you can do is capitulate and sacrifice. It leads to resentment and creates incompatibility. So, if she tries to control you, you should not allow it to happen.


But you don't need to justify yourself at all. Just simply tell her you don't want to hang out with those anymore. That is perfectly sufficient.

Just tell her you are not happy with those plans and tell her what you would like to do. It sounds liek she is in the habit of dictating all your plans and you are in the habit of just going along with it. She is very controlling.

So tell her politely that those plans do not make you happy and you would like to find something that makes you BOTH happy. AND NO RELUCTANT AGREEMENTS. Men are notorious for "giving into" their wives to keep the peace with reluctant agreemnets. That is not in your wifes best interest becuase it causes resentment and creates incompatibility.

I want to emphasize this because most men don't get this: it is not "controlling" to not allow yourself to be controlled by your wife. It is not a "lovebuster" to disagree with her plans.

Thanks ML. I needed that. I need to just state my position. What if she asks for a compromise or to negotiate that we will just cut back? If I say no way, I don't want to hang out with them anymore, I suppose that's not a demand, that me stating my position. In the POJA I guess I do have the right to say sorry, there's no negotiation on this one. Is that right?

Honestly, I don't mind going out to the bars with them on occasion and I've told my WW this. I told her its the expectation and the frequency that drives me nuts. I told her it makes me feel that I have to compete with these people who yes, I've known for a while, and yes, deep down I do care for them but they've chosen to live the way they do and I just don't want to watch them go downhill any longer. I tell my wife, let's make plans and we can invite them to the beach, or do something else but she says "they like going to this bar and that bar so they will probably not want to come." Whenever we go out I say "what about going here, or there, or this new place, or doing this new thing." Her response has been "well let's just see what everyone is doing first." It always ends up at Bar A or Bar B. Always. It's so stupid. I'm so over it.

Thanks again ML. Read your posts after posting the one above.

She is controlling with our free time out of the home. It began partly because when she was new to California (4.5 years ago), I would let her pick where to go, beach, zoo, mountains, mexico, etc. because I wanted her to be choose where to explore and I wanted to do what she wanted. I lived here my whole life so I've seen it all.

This slowly developed into this pattern of her deciding what to do outside of the house. When we are at home, I am the controlling one and this was a major factor for the affair. I'm learning to not be, but a major reason I was controlling about the home is that my wife never cleaned, cooked, picked up her stuff, etc. So I'd always be doing it and asking her to help. This behavior really started once the affair was on and so I now see she would deliberately not do her chores to make me mad and justify her feelings that I am a control freak and neat freak. I am a clean person and yes sometimes I do ask too much. I'm working on it. In many instances, I would control her and demand that she help. I no longer do this, and she has been much more helpful around the house.

This is our power struggle. Our dynamic is such that I am the grown up, I organize our home, our finances, and make sure the important stuff gets done. In return, my wife controls our social life and vacations and if I don't want to join, she asks if she can go by herself. The second I try to even suggest plans on a weekend, she views this as me taking ALL the power leaving her at my mercy. Even in a group setting I'll suggest something and she won't back me up or say "yeah that's a good idea" but when the group agrees with my idea, she will get on board. I told her that is so hurtful to me. She understood but has not changed her ways in this regard.

I also gave up a very important hobby of mine (playing music) because I was playing gigs every night before she moved to be with me. I didn't sacrifice this, I wanted to give it up and develop a lifelong marriage with someone I wanted to be my future wife. I see now that I was giving her control when I thought I was picking the better option: her. I still don't regret it, and she's now encouraging me to play more music. With all this going on, its hard for me to want to start up again but I plan to soon.

You should negotiate to find solutions that make you both happy. Compromise and capitulation are bad for marriage. If you can't find any way to be happy about visiting with those people, then they should be off the table. You can find new friends that you BOTH enjoy.


Just don't go out with them unless you are enthusiastic.

I love this.

Friends who are not friends of the marriage are not really friends....they are boundary-killers.

You can play music if there is enthusiastic agreement BUT you should not be out playing at night.
MB Based couples go to bed together.

Thanks Jedi. I told her last night I would only play out at night if she was there. She couldn't believe her ears! She loved it! She thought I never cared if she came to my shows when we first started dating.

On another note, the friends of hers that I don't like a lot of the time, we discussed that. It was so difficult but we made a breakthrough sticking to mutual agreement.

She came home pissed because I told her that I'm having anxiety about her friends coming over for her birthday and I'm not feeling enthusiastic about tomorrow's party. She got instantly defensive, had to go for a 3-4 mile walk for over an hour, was still fuming mad, then settled down and we talked.

I told her #1, I want us both to be happy and on board with the party. Her friends have made me feel uncomfortable because they demand my wife's and my time and make her feel bad if she doesn't follow their every lead and demand, if she goes home early, or can't make it out they tug at her emotions. Last weekend when we left "early" at 1:30am they tried this on me and it was insulting. I told her that this is MY problem, and that I have to deal with a resolution but want her help. I told her I will feel Awkward tomorrow around her friends because I don't know if they support our marriage.

Wife:"They've never said they don't support our marriage."

Me: "You're right, but they've never said they do. I need them to understand fully our situation, how you're done partying, how you're done with 'girls night' all the time, how you and I are trying to change our relationship for the better and that you and I will ALWAYS come first."

Wife: "I'm not supporting that idea, I've told them and they understand."

Me: "Well when we went out with them for one of their birthdays just 5 days ago, we went home at 1:30AM after hanging out with them since 3:30pm, thats 10 hours. We bought them nice gifts, drove them around, went to the beach, went to dinner, went to their favorite bar, and because we didn't go to the afterparty, I got treated like I was some old man going home early and not a single thank you or 'great seeing you friend.' I felt like your friends thought I was taking you away from them and felt some resentment."

Wife: "Well they texted me the next day that they had a great time and thank you."

Me: "Did you tell me about that text? Did I get that text? I didn't get that vibe from her when I said bye."

Wife: "Well she was drunk it was 1:30am."

Me: "So you're saying that if we hang out with this friend of yours, and she's drinking, that I need to accept she will be rude and careless about me, you, and our marriage? If that's true, sounds like we can't hang out with her if there is alcohol involved."

Wife: "No, no I retract my statement, it shouldn't matter that she was drunk you're right."

Me: "Ok, so any other reasons why you can't tell me that you understand that I am feeling awkward and that you'd like to work on a solution instead of excusing your friends behavior? It makes me feel that they are more important than me and that makes me feel even worse!"

Wife: "Ok then what do you propose, that I don't invite my two best girl friends to my birthday party? Because if that's the case, I want to be all by myself and do whatever it is I want.:

Me: "Well I'm not enthusiastic about that idea, let's find a compromise how about you and I just do something together."

Wife: "But I want to have friends over. I am not going to be drinking and I want to go to our exercise class in the morning so it will be a calm evening, let me prove that to you."

Me: "I fully believe you, I just felt so disrespected by your friends last weekend that I don't want to see them."

I finally came up with a solution we both liked. The solution is that they are coming over tonight and I am going to talk to them, let them know my wife and I are trying to fix the problems we both brought into our marriage, as well as moving past infidelity, trying to find common ground, exercise, eat better, sleep better, drink less, party less, have less stress in our lives, get rid of social media, and spend more intimate time together without friends. I am going to ask them if we have their support in these efforts and that none of them are geared at them or their relationship with US; however, things are NOT going to be like they were before and if my wife and I decide we need to do something away from the group of friends, please respect and support our decision because we acting to mutually benefit each other and that comes first. I'd like to ask them if they support our decision.

My wife loved the idea and said "and if they aren't ok with that, then we probably shouldn't be friends with them and it's their loss, not ours!

I almost broke down to tears... my wife is UNDERSTANDING THAT HER AND MY HEALTH AND RELATIONSHIP COME FIRST, ABOVE ALL ELSE!

Thanks MB community!

Good luck telling drunks and drug addicts that you want their support in your decision to stop partying with them.

I know. I'm hoping that by doing this, my wife will see me standing up for our marriage. My wife told me she now understands that if they are her "true friends" (which I don't think they are) they will support this. There's no way they are going to be on board with this (even if they verbally agree, it won't work) and I'm curious to see how the fallout occurs.

My wife is working on her confidence and has been better, but still has a hard time standing up to them because she has failed to make any lasting relationships in this town (either the bipolar or personality disorder coming through) and feels that if she doesn't participate in partying with them, she will lose the 'best friend' status. She has told them she is done partying but still wants to hang out with them. I told her that it's not good to be around that stuff, she told me that we'll be together and there's no way she wants to do coke and drugs anymore. I told her its an addiction you don't have that choice anymore. She said "well have I done anything in the past two months."

Jedi it is tough, I'm trying to be as accepting and diplomatic as possible and hoping that my pure unadulterated honesty will separate the oil from the water and we will both realize at the same time, what is what, what is good, what is bad, and how to mutually agree on the good, forsake the bad, and be patient with that which we are not sure is good or bad.

I don't feel that I lied or failed to be honest. I also know my wife is not going to dump her only friends for the last 4 years at the drop of a hat. Should she? Yes. Should I demand it of her? I don't think so because I don't think that would be helpful to our marriage. My approach is to open the dialogue and let the BAD friends lose interest in my GOOD marriage because they support bad decisions and we support good ones.

Sir, when was the last time you drank alcohol?
When was the last time you used ANY drug, cocaine, weed etc?

And when was the last time for her?

I drank two beers last night, before that I had 3 beers last Saturday night. I smoke weed on occasion, last time being last weekend. I have tried cocaine before, the last time was my bachelor party, the time before that was in college in like 2004. I have tried mushrooms before, the last time was 2007. I have tried extacy before once in 2009.

I have been there done that and now I want to be done. My main vices are drinking (although I have not had a hangover in over a year now, I never black out or get sick) and I do like to smoke pot on the weekends.

Last time for my wife, she had one beer last weekend and she smoked a bit with me last weekend. She last did coke is early May of this year, about 3 times a month for a year. I saw her one time in those 36-40 times she did it.

I am coming to realize through all this that I need to be an example for her and stop it all. As long as I'm drinking or smoking, it will seem that I am a hypocrite, even if I don't do coke, which was the thing that she is most ashamed about drug-wise. Alcohol and weed are both legal where we live, so it's stigma is less than other drugs, but they're still not good for you. Please let me have your wrath Jedi Master. Turn me from the dark side.