Hi gang,
New guy here, I guess it's high time I posted. Below is a synopsis of the comment I submitted with my application for coaching (I've had 2 phone sessions with Dr. Steve so far). It pretty much sums things up:

I don't know where to begin! Wife is definitely in the 'withdrawal stage'. Not sure where I am, other than in
indescribable pain and stress over the situation (and some things I'm finding out). Together 10 years and married
for 5, we have 2 kids, ages 6 and 3. She's 35 and I'm 55. Everything started out peaches, we're (were) very
compatible, personality/lifestyle/values-wise, and sexually. We had such a close, easy, trusting relationship
that I feel totally blind-sided by the rapid collapse. Maybe I just wanted it to work too badly (it's my 2nd marriage,
and 2nd family), and overlooked some flags. Most days, it's only her needs that matter, and mine are trivial. We
spend much of our free time apart. At times I feel she's incapable of love at all, almost insensitive to any
intense pain or grief, and sees those things as weakness in other people. It's as though she's having some sort of female 'midlife crisis', which included some self-affirming flirting with mostly hansome and especially well-off guys (as if to test whether she's attractive), and even
a quick makeout session with some apparently "cute" waiter 10 years her junior while visiting another country with
her girlfriends. We've just started some counseling, jointly so far. She does participate, but I caught her telling a
friend, it's just so he can't say she didn't try [when it ends]. Now she's taking a stewardess job that'll first require
her to live in St. Louis for 6 weeks (we're in NC), and then if she gets the job, that's 2 hours away from home, in
Raleigh. I can't get her to put off any of it, and I feel the avalanche may be unstoppable if we wait another couple
months, or more, to try to fix things. I don't think either of us is sure if she wants to fix it. I'm certain that I do. I
can't imagine the future otherwise. Right now, I can't really see a future either way. And, I can't convince her of the
fact (which all divorced people know) that separation or divorce will fix exactly none of our immediate problems,
and will certainly have an adverse effect on our innocent little children. Alas, back to the question: Where to begin?

I've done my snooping, and studied most of the contents of this site. It all makes perfect sense to me, and I feel
certain it could help us. The whole thing, however, seems to be based on the premise that both spouses want to
salvage their marriage. I don't see anything here on how one spouse can convince the other one's dumb [censored] that it's
in his/her best interest to do so.
Thanks for all you do, EddiE814

What type of snooping do you have in place?
keylogging programs?
GPS on vehicle?

Any evidence of an affair?

You begin in "Plan A" while snooping aggressively.

This makes me think this thread might belong in "Surviving an Affair"


PLEASE tell me you don't talk to your wife this way!!!
If you do - you are seriously "Love Busting" her.

This is an indication that you may feel justified treating her in way that you do that is actually tearing down your marriage and not building it up. This behavior will do nothing good for restoring your marriage. Take it from someone who has learned (and is learning) the HARD way.

I have a program which captures all her iphone data off the "cloud", a keylogger (and message log extractor for skype), and various passwords to emails, facebook, etc. I have a GPS unit for when she returns. Regarding an affair, I guess it depends on one's view of flirting, intimate conversations, and kissing strangers. I tend to look at all those as such.

I think the snooping is just about completed. I haven't really confronted her yet, so as not to show my hand. She does suspect I know a few things, but I'm still biting my tongue. In my understanding of Plan A, it doesn't begin until after the showdown. And, there isn't another lover, per se, other than coveting the idea of one.

This makes me think this thread might belong in "Surviving an Affair"

PLEASE tell me you don't talk to your wife this way!!!
If you do - you are seriously "Love Busting" her.
This is an indication that you may feel justified treating her in way that you do that is actually tearing down your marriage and not building it up. This behavior will do nothing good for restoring your marriage. Take it from someone who has learned (and is learning) the HARD way.[/quote]

As I said above, I consider all these things affairs, or at least the beginnings of one.
No, I absolutely wouldn't talk to her that way, despite what's happened. Hurting her doesn't help anything, or unhurt me. It's just that usually one spouse or both tend to become blind and/or misguided enough to think that reconciliation is impossible, and it's a really tough sell to get them to see that it's the best thing for all involved.

It's unusual for a woman to go out seeking an affair.
Your wife is doing that.
She's making out with strange men.

It sounds like she does not believe in marriage; there may be little help for your case.

How long would you say after you got married that your wife started to become "distant" from you?

Have you read this article?:
Why Women Leave Men
by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html

Yes, I've read most of the relevant articles on here, and tried to absorb the points that apply.

I'd say around 3 years into our relationship, ironically about the time she got pregnant.

She's one of these gals who grew up without her father (definitely an Alpha-type, self-made man) after her parents' divorce when she was about 6. Then came the chaotic, bordering-on-abusive, extremely intense sexual relationship from age 15 to 19, with a boy a couple years older. I believe she has no real concept of what love, acceptance, etc. with a man should be. It's straight out of an episode of Dr. Drew. I've often read that these women tend to have low self-esteem (check, although she's gorgeous), and tend to fall in love with older men (check), but remain somehow partly in love with the original tragic 'boyfriend' (check). That's not to say that she's any kind of trophy bimbo, or arrested adolescent at all. She is a very bright, outgoing, driven person. In many ways, she's more mature than I. Over our 10 years together now she has blossomed and become much more confident and socially adjusted.

Maybe she just thinks that now she should (just because she probably can) do better than me. Part of the drawback to the big age difference, I suppose. I'm a minor sports celebrity, and when we met I was pretty much at the pinnacle of my game, one of the big dogs in the yard. That elite social status, and my well-learned confidence around women had to have some subconscious, primordial effect on her physical attraction to me, more than my looks (I'd say I'm just average-looking) or the money I was making (not much of that would go her way anytime soon, and she's really not that shallow). Now that I'm basically retired, have resolved never to cheat on her, and am spending a lot of time tending the kids, I have (with her help) degraded from Mr. Alpha-makes-me-wet to mild-mannered Mr. Daddy-turns-me-off. No more honeymoon, no more new-car smell. Despite my still being great in the sack (she'd attest), I now appear as 'only' safe, honest, loving, secure, etc. (i.e. boring), and those things don't appeal to her internal sexual chemistry. And outwardly, I think she has no idea what to want or expect from a real man, or how (or whether) to keep him.

I guess neither of us had a chance at the start; she of resisting me and I of sustaining forever my elevated position among the pack.

Sir, everything you wrote above is interesting but does not contain a plan for saving your marriage.
In Marriage Builders, we have two plans: Plan A and Plan B.
In Plan A, you meet your wife's emotional needs and fill her "love Bank" and she will fall in love with you.

I forget ; Have you read His Needs Her Needs?