I don't know.

My work computers do not allow me to stream it due to the filters. I can't check for the rebroadcast until I'm home from work today.

I understand we both decided not to move. Are you saying that that decision then "allows" hfm to ignore EPs or Poja, or that somehow I am getting what I 'deserve' because of it? We haven't moved yet, so throw ALL of MB out the window?

I guess when hfm states "I am committed to the marriage, I just don't agree that I have to obey that EP (working in OMs county) because I feel better and I trust me", that's all okay because it's my fault that we've agreed to not move yet?

All attempts to listen to Dr. Harley's new response will be made as soon as I get a foot in the door.

I don't know if he responded.
Usually they will email you and let you know that your email was addressed (but not always)

I must admit to some level of resentment because it feels like so long as I was doing for her the last 3 years -- getting her through her grad program -- everything MB was fine.

Many things started going back to the way before once she graduated and stopped her meds...

Yes, I feel she sees EPs as "punishment" and yes, I feel she sees it as doing some MB things until she feels she's done 'paying' for her mistake (rather than a building program).

I also get tired of her telling me that I'm paranoid and obsess and that I'm being silly about this and just 'move on' and I am paralyzing her career and my feelings are 'hindering her' and that I'm not healing as well as I should be and need professional help and that time means 'nothing to me now' and I'm pulling her down and Dr. Harley doesn't know the full context so of course he's going to "agree with you' on this.

I mean, really?

If I were you, I would enroll in the program. Let Dr Harley and her coach work on her and do all the work. Who cares if she thinks the program is just "for you?" ALMOST ALL COUPLES who sign up for the program have one reluctant partner. That is what Dr Harley is good at overcoming.

Tell her: "I have decided it is something I want to do because I am so unhappy. I want us to have a great marriage where we are both happy. Will you join me in the program"

Wife: you can do it alone

hfd: well, the program can't be done alone. It is a couples program and I am asking you to do this for me.

I am, and I will, Mel.

I know this will be hard for Markos to agree with ha, ha and frankly it's an embarrassment on just what a "work in progress" I am even as an adult, but I feel I have grown a great deal with this program.

I am a much better man, father, yes, husband...less angry person, more confident since I have found this site.

I have worked hard to repair past wrongs, I'm speaking with my family again...just many good things since being here.

But I'm not resting on my laurels...

I think a huge reason your wife is still so fogged out is because you live right there in the same environment the affair took place. It is like an alcoholic hanging around the bar every day. His mind never quite clears up. After all, the OM is still the topic of conversation 4 years later.

Ditto to all zibbles posted.


People understand what you are going through, hfd.

What is very clear to me is like too many BSs, when a (F)WS breaks an EP, refuses to POJA or provide EXTRAORDINARY care, instead of pulling the trigger on Plan B or D because enough is enough, the BS whines and complains about his/her lot in life vs letting go of the death grip they have on a bad marriage. That is now you hfd. At some point a BS, VOLUNTEERS to continue the misery.

I disagree with others that this is not an affair issue. The OM is and always will be a factor in your lives. When you complained in your email that you are basically tired of OM being a consideration in your lives, Dr H told you that's just how it is whether either of you like it or not. That is simply the reality of consequences from infidelity. Every single BS who decides to try to recover the marriage has to live with that...not just you.

The next email after yours asked about the order of the steps to SAA and EPs was first. Even though you are years out from a Dday, EPs are still first. I don't see any point in increasing UA time or meeting needs or negotiating x, y or z when an EP is blown to bits. Ignoring the elephant is not going to change the elephant sitting in front of you.

Mel,

I know. It is just very difficult NOT to believe her when she knows, and is sincere, in her expressions of "I have destroyed my life" or "I have humiliated myself in the worst way a woman could".

It's like I just KNOW she would never sacrifice herself physically or emotionally in this way again.

But see, I'm okay believing in the MB principle that tells me I CAN'T "just believe" in that...and that there are no "down sides" to EPs...if they are "wrong", the consequence is a strong marriage!

I feel hfm feels or knows internally she won't go down this path again (if I listed all of the things that have gone wrong in her life for 4 years, ALL of which she attributes to her actions), and sees the EPs/POJA as "unnecessary" now, because she repeats often: "I have learned my lesson".

I feel the MB program ENSURES that neither of us does this, and that's not a bad thing.

In our case, according to OWH, these are typical of the comments from OW for a few months and THEN she started the affair with my H.

Please understand that your wife has no idea of how to prevent an affair.

AM

That's always the case until it happens...again. Same as most never thought they would have a Dday in the first place because their spouse would NEVER...

Even if she never did sacrifice herself again, she is willing to sacrifice you today and tomorrow.

She hasn't learned the lesson, because a primary tenet of that lesson is that *everyone* is prone to affairs if the conditions that would make an affair possible exist. The biggest lesson I learned from my wife's affair was that *I* could have an affair too if I wasn't more careful! Your wife is not being the least bit careful, so the lesson has not been learned. She just thinks that she will be immune to another affair because she knows better now. That actually makes her more likely to have another affair!

******Edit*****
She says that the "conditions that led to the affair" have been removed: that it was our marriage, our not meeting each other's ENs, never POJA anything, etc. that helped create the environment for the affair, NOT the workplace setting (trying to make me feel better, I guess, "it could've happened anywhere I was..."


She "said" she'd join me in the online coaching. we'll see.

Well then go with the plan and stick with it.
Do as MelodyLane suggested and let the coach and Dr. Harley deal with getting her on board.
You just focus on making love bank deposits and avoiding Love Busters.

And focus on the plan, Sir.
If the outfielder is daydreaming or upset he's not going to catch the ball.
Make this your plan for a set number of months...3...6?

So future posts should be about the online program and how to make love bank deposits and avoid withdrawls

I think I'll do the online coaching, but...I'm not playing the Plan A sucker like I did before.

I did the work -- I'm not rewarding the behaviors of breaking EPs and POJA, etc.

A cop doesn't hug me and take me to a jazz bar after breaking the speed limit to "incentivize" me not to do it again..

She already went out today for new uniforms for her new job and didn't tell me until now.

No, no, no.

I'm starting with the coaching, if only for me.

Zibbles, hfd is NOT A BUYER. Buyers care about their spouse's perspective. HFD is a renter, just like his wife.

Are you actually going to follow through with the coaching this time, hfd? This isn't the first time you have been talked into getting help.

Your marriage will not make it if you continue with that attitude. She will never fall in love with you.
Comparing yourself to a cop? Really?

Stupid.

I was upset when I typed it....when I can't get in touch with her, and she doesn't answer her phone for an hour, and THEN she tells me she was out shopping for clothes for the job that I didn't agree to, it's upsetting.

It made me feel uneasy and unsafe like before.

I shouldn't have blasted that out, though.

I am a Buyer, because I DO know her perspective. I sought hers out, and listened intently when she shared it. I respect it, even if I disagree with it, as I have told her.

Dr Harley read your email around the 40 minute mark today.

W Again, I point out that hfd has been here as long as Markos. He should be just as knowledgeable as Markos.

Yet he has spent the 4 years here cherry picking, cutting corners, ignoring advice. He could've saved his marriage years ago if he had followed the plan instead of fighting every step of the way. If he had put his mind to it, he could've won his wife and made her fall in love with him. Instead, he scoffs at the thought.

Markos didn't win me because I am somehow better than hfd's wife. He won me because he actually followed the plan. There is nothing magical about our story (other than I find him terribly romantic for having fought for me and I secretly swoon in his presence. HE FOUGHT FOR ME. Don't show him the disrespect of suggesting I was an easy catch). Any husband could do what Markos did. HFD hadn't even tried. He scoffs. Markos would not have me had he so openly scoffed.