I have recently read He wins, She wins and have been very impressed with the material. I have also searched the sight and read the thread on religious differences. The advice Dr. Harley gave if you can't convert each other is to basically POJA the religious differences like any other conflict. I like the how he says to just live your religion in a way that considers your spouse's feelings.
So, here is our predicament. We married both the same religious beliefs. Recently my spouse has left the church that we both were members of and feels very strongly against its tenants, now. She respects my decision to remain faithful to my conviction and that I will continue to attend and worship. However, when it comes to our 4 children, she can't stand the thought of them attending for fear that they will be brainwashed into believing the way I do. As part of my conviction, it is very important to me to teach my children the best way I know how. This, of course, includes teaching and encouraging the children to learn of Christ and actively worship and attend church functions and make and keep covenants. She gets very uncomfortable with really any encouraging or heartfelt teaching, feeling they will be brainwashed (even from me in the home). She has not chosen another religion per se. She just believes in what she terms divine presence or source--that we all have the potential to be divine within ourselves and don't need a church or religion necessarily. It is very important to her that the children be able to choose for themselves and feels that any teaching more than just informative/textbook-like teaching is swaying their unbiased decision. So, I am confused as to how we can come to an enthusiastic agreement. For the very thing she can't stand is the very thing that I want. This is not so simple as two different religions. The religion at the top of my list is now at the bottom of hers. All this being said, I can tell that my spouse wants only the best for her, her children, and I guess even me. In other words, although it is very confusing, I know her intent is good and genuine. I hope and do think she knows I have the same good intent. Again, though both are striving for each perceived best for the family, the chosen paths to get there seem mutually exclusive.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated

Does your wife know about MB and POJA?

Yes, barely. I am new to this all in just the past week or so. I did explain POJA to her and the idea that well-intended sacrifice can be detrimental when it leads to resentment. You, see, I believe this is a problem which I have contributed more. I have been less willing to be open with my true feelings if they were negative or opposing to hers and thus withheld thinking I was being kind or protecting her, but realize now this has likely led to my passive-aggression with trying to stuff/ignore things until it has to come out, with hurtful words and tones. So, I took the opportunity to admit this and apologize for the great weight it has caused in our relationship. I plan to suggest at our weekly planning meeting tonight that we do the questionairres and read/work through some of the material together.

Hi DDW, welcome to Marriage Builders. It takes awhile to really learn how to negotiate using the policy of joint agreement, but you are on the right track. For now don't do anything that the other spouse is not enthusiastic about. The default position is to do nothing. Do you have the book His Needs, Her Needs for Parents? Chapter 8 is "Rules of the House, Deciding on Child-Training Goals and Methods."

Another great resource is the Marriage Builders radio show. You can write Dr Harley an email and he will answer it on the air. Or you can call in and be on the radio if you want. Just click on the radio link at the top of every page.

I assume all your children are baptized. Have any had their First Communion or Confirmation? What is the age range?

Welcome to MB

Melody Lane: I get that we are not supposed to do anything that the other spouse is not enthusiastic about. But again, she is not enthusiastic about anything to do with the church or religion. And I feel more and more uncomfortable as time passes (6months) that the children don't come. I have presented a better compromise about 10 days ago that she has been considering. (Currently, the kids can come to the main meeting "Sacrament", but nothing else and she does not like me to encourage them to come.) But still, this is a compromise. Neither of us get all of what we want. This is what I meant by the term "mutually exclusive" in the past. What I want is the very thing she does not want. So, doing nothing feels like what we have already been doing for the past 6 months. I trust you are aware of the exceptions that Dr. Harley describes. I think this situation applies. Doing nothing works out better for her and keeps eating away at my moral convictions.

I must admit it is somewhat ironic, because over our marriage I know I have been the one to ignore issues or drag my feet in resolving them much more than she. And it surely is because I had less incentive to resolve them fearing more undesired change than the status quo. So, I don't blame her, but it doesn't take away my intense desire to feel less restricted religiously.

We have four children. Oldest will be 13 Tuesday, our only girl. Then three boys 10, 9 (in a couple of weeks) and 4. They are all wonderful. We both love them deeply and I know want the best for them. In my faith, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, children can be baptized at eight. So, the older three have been baptized, but my spouse has serious reservations about their church membership state, feeling they were too young and brainwashed. She has already stated that our youngest will not be baptized like the others were.

Yes, I am aware of his "exceptions" and this is not one of them. So you should continue to negotiate. With most couples it takes time to learn to become good negotiators and this is no exception. It took my H and I several months to gain those skills.


I would strongly suggest you email Dr Harley and get his input.

DDW, the problem with your perspective is that you have already decided you are right and she is wrong. That is why you are having so much trouble. When you come into a negotiation with that perspective, you have already lost. And when you tell your spouse [or imply] that she is wrong and you are right, it is very offensive and does not lead to resolutions.

This is the book I suggested - if you can get this, the chapter you really need is Chapter 8: http://www.amazon.com/His-Needs-Her...keywords=his+needs+her+needs+for+parents

Thank you for you comments. I appreciate the recommendation on the book. I am currently reading His Need, Her Needs and will look into getting a copy of your suggestion.

How would I go about emailing Dr. Harley?

I respectfully agree with you that I feel I am right. The way I like to see it is that I have a conviction in my religious beliefs and yes have chosen this path over others because I do believe it is correct/true/right. I also think that any other religiously convicted person will feel the same way--that their chosen path is correct. Otherwise they would probably not pursue such path...or just not care so much which path they traveled.

My spouse feels convicted in her direction, too. I do respect this. I just don't know how to resolve that we both feel driven in each of our respective and very different ways and would love our loved ones to follow. Sure, it is natural for me to want my spouse to see religion that way I do. But in the end, though I disagree with her, I want her to do what she feels is best. So, there is some peace in this thought. After all, we do choose for ourselves. And as she has said/suggested, I may be wrong. But I am not inclined to change my religious inclination and truly feel what I am pursuing is correct. How to we both feel the freedom to live the way we are driven, yet be considerate of each others feelings as Dr. Harley suggested? An equal compromise is the only solution I have been able to come up with...all the while each of us knowing that the only reason we would compromise something so important is because we love and respect and consider our spouse's feelings and know they are doing the same for us.

Any other thoughts?

I understand completely, but when I say you believe you are right and she is wrong, I am referring to the decisions regarding your children. When you come into a negotiation with that approach, the deal is dead before you even start. The premise of the POJA is that you find a solution about which you are both enthusiastic because your ideas about raising your children are not any more right than hers. It has to be a blending of both your ideas.

You can email Dr Harley by following the instructions on this webpage. here You don't have to go on his radio show, but he will contact you with an answer to your problem.

And here I thought you were Catholic!

I would write Dr H as Mel suggested but don't envy your situation. Religion is one of those areas that is touchy. I do not know what LDS says about baptism of children when you married in the Church (assuming you did so correct me if I am wrong) but in the Catholic Faith the children are to be baptized and brought up in the Faith...it is viewed as a moral duty of the parent.

I hope Dr H can get you some guidance on this issue.

I appreciate it and will follow the link. I also like what you said about blending both ideas. I think the connotation and feeling I get from those words are how I think of compromise, but all the while knowing each person is only compromising out or love for the other.

Thanks again, and look forward to Dr. Harley's advice.

Yes, in my faith teaching the children, etc. like you describe in Catholicism is very important. We believe in eternal families, which involves all members of the families entering into covenants with God. As we all strive to keep these covenants, relying on the Savior's atoning grace, we can be blessed to be together forever. Although I value this eternal perspective, with my current situation, I try to just take it one day at a time and work on those things that I know I need to improve to better our relationship, and in turn, our family.

The general rule on religious differences is that each spouse has a right to believe in any religion.
How they exercise that belief with themselves and the children is subject to the POJA.

EDIT: Here is a link to a Radio Show program in which Dr. Harley addresses religious differences: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=5540#

Here is another good Radio Show addressing religious differences:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=4630#