Assuming his ex is honest, I agree with both statements.

There are no guarantees that anyone is going to be honest. She could call his greatest fan, his mother, and not get complete honesty.

You think I would say anything negative about my son if someone called and asked about his character? My son is PERFECTION PERSONIFIED and I can't see him any other way!

Definitely before getting engaged I think it would be good to get the full scoop. In getting to know each other, I found out he doesn't have his son half-time, when that would be typical in my state, and asked him more about it. He's a wonderful little guy, and we get along great and he really likes my DDs and they like him a lot too. BF explained it was to simplify daycare arrangements when his DS was younger. And then a few days later he said that he thought more about it and he thinks now that his son would be starting kindergarten it would be a good time to look at going back to a one week on one week off schedule like YD does. So I wouldn't want to reach out to her too close to that time and her come to the conclusion that I'm stirring the pot and make that transition difficult.

What gets my attention too about that situation is that there isn't some big dealbreaker why they aren't together. And being a longtime MBer, I think as much as I really like this guy, the best possible outcome would be for him to go reunite his family instead of being in a new relationship. But he doesn't sound like that would be something he would be open to at all, so I wonder if it makes sense to even broach the subject. I think that Buyers Renters Freeloaders book and especially that what it takes to be a buyer chapter would be a good opening to a conversation like that.

Also in the chapter on Renters it talks about the 5 things you want to be compatible on. We are very close in intellect, culture, energy, and values, but are at opposite ends on the introvert/extrovert one. I have a few very close women friends from growing up, an extended family I spend lots of time with, and two women I sponsor in Alanon. My guy doesn't have any close friends he socializes with. I always wind up with introverts, so I'm used to finding that balance, I'm not a big IBer, and value UA time, so I don't think this has to be an issue, but definitely something to discuss.

You're right, I hadn't thought about that.

I guess what I'm thinking of is the difference between critical information and intentional misinformation. Critical information is useful, as you say. But I'm not so sure about intentional mis-information. For example, suppose NewEveryDay's boyfriend's ex derived sick pleasure in poisoning any relationship he was in. If NewEveryDay contacted her, she might say something like he physically abused her and their children during their marriage, when in fact he hadn't. How would this help NewEveryDay?

A hypothetical example, I know. Does Dr. Harley say anything specific about dealing with the possibility of slander when contacting an ex?

Lol I know that one! KL it would be good at giving me more incentive to take a wait and see approach and keep my eyes open

That would get my attention too. My wife is fascinated with understanding my previous marriage; not only to understand more of me, but also because she likes relationship stuff in general. Maybe you could present it that way to him, that you are naturally fascinated with relationships and want to understand more about his previous one.

One characterization I've come across regarding the difference between introverts and extroverts is not how many friends they have, rather how they recharge their energy, say after a full day of work. Introverts do it by going home and relaxing; extroverts do it by going out to social settings. My wife has several close friends she enjoys, while I don't (other than her); yet we both like to come home after work and relax rather than go out and socialize. Even though there's a discrepancy in the number of friends we have, we both feel aligned on the introversion/extroversion scale.

However it's definitely something to discuss with him!

What do you do when anyone slanders your friends/family/spouse? Wouldn't you evaluate the claims and make a conclusion based on facts and evidence? I think you have to use your common sense and understand that there may be some bitterness and take that into account when evaluating their claims. You can't just assume that EVERY ex is a liar. That is an unrealistic assumption on your part.

Dr. Harley assumes people have common sense.

Awesome! Thanks for explaining.

(I'm probably biased because my ex IS a liar!)

A month later, how are things going? Are you still dating the same guy? Has he met your mom?

Things are going great here, except my oldest just went off to college! I'm still adjusting.

He hasn't met my mom yet, she doesn't want to meet him yet, because he hasn't introduced me to his mom yet. He knows I'm dying to meet his mom, because I want to "bring him into the fold" with my family and see what they think. He says she's difficult and is waiting for his brother to come down next month and visit as a buffer. To be honest, this is a big love buster for me, but I'm trying to keep in mind that POJA thing that it creates less resentment not getting what you want, then for someone to go along with what they don't want. Maybe he's just not ready to be "in the fold" with my family just yet, wants to be more one-on-one, who knows?

I love him a whole bunch, but man it hit me that I jumped in so way soon. After being married for 15 years, I don't know how to turn off that thing where once I have feelings for one man, any other romantic interest feels like a waste of time.

I love his little boy, too. He's a handful! But I'm loving every minute.

I do have a concern, I don't know yet how he handles big disagreements. And it kinda bothers me that I'm in this deep without knowing something so critical. My ex used to get so hostile with me, and being here with you all, I know I never have to settle for that life again. I want to know if he gets angry in a mean way, or takes it in stride and patience. But there is nothing big we disagree on yet.

Have you actually tried POJA with him about meeting his mom?

From when it first came up he has said he would feel more comfortable waiting until his brother came from out of town to visit as a buffer. I don't honestly understand that but I figured I could just wait it out and see what happened. I always heard that you can tell how a man will treat you by how he treats his mom, and I think there's a lot of truth to that. My brothers who are close to my mom are close with their wives and my neither who doesn't want to be bothered hasn't married his girlfriend who he has a baby with. I have brought it up several times, to the point that one day my family needed to come over for help with paperwork and I asked my bf to go to the bookstore because my parents don't want to meet him until I met his mom. I don't want to push too hard either. I figure if too much time goes by and nothing happens that tells me something too.

I just wanted to address your last sentence.
I have heard Dr. Harley use the shopping cart lesson as a way to learn how to negotiate.
You go to the store with one shopping cart and then try to convince the other person to get the items you like, as they try to convince you.
It is a practice in negotiation

Why dont you contact his ex wife for perspective?

We have been to the store, like shopping for something to make for dinner, but if he doesn't like something, i still get it because we're just saying and there are plenty of dinners we don't have together. But the idea makes sense like date night, try to see what would make the other enthusiastic about doing something different.

Is her college close enough to home that she'll be able to visit from time to time?

Just curious, why does your mom want to meet him after you to meet his mom?

Have you asked him?

I know exactly how you feel; I'm the same. When I was in post-divorce therapy, my therapist said it indicated that I'm a relationship person by nature. Not that I need to be in a relationship, but I'm happier in one than not. Maybe you're a relationship person too.

Keep waiting, you're bound to disagree on something at some point. I remember reading somewhere that when Dr. Harley counseled pre-marital couples, he purposely gave them a problem that had no solution because he wanted to see how they handled conflict.

I wouldn't be too bothered by lack of disagreement. Maybe you just happen to be very compatible! I remember feeling something similar with my now wife. The first few months we dated, I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. She felt the same, wondering why things seemed to be going so extraordinarily well. We eventually did hit some areas of conflict and resolved them, but the scarcity of conflict in our relationship is an indication to us of compatibility. Maybe it's the same with you!

KL, her college is 8 hours away, which is a lot for us! I'll get to see her for Thanksgiving, and we're talking almost every day.

My mom wants me to meet his mom first because she think I get serious too fast and am more serious than he is. I had asked him before, and he said his mom is difficult to be around, and would pull herself in when his brother was there. That she goes on and on about aches and pains and such. I talked to him this weekend, let him know it is really starting to feel strange that we are getting along so well, we get our kids together a lot, but I haven't met his mom. He said he understood, and explained that when his mom met his last ex girlfriend, she said a lot of negative things about him and his family and she didn't want to see her again. I thanked him for his honesty, and I said well that would be really good for me to know lol! That really got him laughing with me too, and I really think he gets it now. He said his brother would be down in the next few weeks, and if not, we will get together with her anyway, because he agrees, he wants me to know what I'll be getting into.

That must've gone really well, because the next day he said he is ready to talk deeper about future plans, and when I'm ready, too, to please let him know. I love him so much, and you know how I would love to get into all that with him, but I remember from last time that this is way early for all that yet, and my YD is still getting used to him and definitely needs more time.

We're also talking about how later on we both would be open to having another child. It was a door we had both thought would be closed, and were happy the other was open to that.

I shared with him also, that I want to know how he would deal with big disagreements if we were together. He didn't understand what I was getting at, so I gave some examples of things that I thought we may not agree on. Like if my mom got sick and needed more care than she can get at home, and I wanted her to come live with us for a time. Sometimes life hands us some big disappointments, or gets really hard for a while, and how does he deal with that. I really liked what he had to say, and feel even more confident about him. I am so grateful I can come and get my concerns out and get some perspective so I can address them up front!

That all sounds really good! It'll be interesting to see what you think of his mom when you meet her. Let us know.

(All good except the part about your daughter being 8 hours away. That's too much for a weekend visit every now and then. But talking almost every day, that's great!)

Oh my goodness, I'm so not worried about that. My family is all like that, so it was good he found someone with years of Alanon under her belt