LOL, so true. I think it is safe to say THIS affair is over... Now, I have my work to do to affair proof the marriage and work on recovery.

Ok, so we have changed cellphone numbers and I have a keylogger and I also got a gps and text reader on my dh phone. The OW has also changed her number, her DH monitors it, too and I have it (her husband gave it to me and I gave him DH's just in case). Now, DH has agreed to my conditions, he has been home for 5 days. He comes home on time, helps around the house and with the kids, etc. He is here but kind of distant at the same time. He has started to give me a kiss and an "I love you" in the morning, when we talk on the phone, when he gets home and before bed but he is not really affectionate at all. If I am affectionate, he accepts my affection but doesn't really return much. He avoids most talk about the relationship. He says, "I want to work on recovering our marriage, I am just tired right now, can we talk about it another time?" Is this normal? At some point we kind of went through LB's and EN and I am doing all I can to eliminate all my LB's that he mentioned and the ones I know I am guilty of. Most of the EN are not been met at this point, for him or for me.

We have not spend much alone time as with all this turmoil, my oldest son has been sick and also has been doing badly in school. The baby must be confused and his routine is out the whack and the middle child is just clingy to daddy. I am hoping that since it's gonna be almost a week, the kids all get settled and we can start incorporating our 15-20 hours of UA. I asked him to come to the kids' dance lesson, so while they are in class we can take a walk together (even though we will have the baby with us). I have a babysitter for next Friday, maybe I can get one for Saturday and another one for Sunday. I know it is not much but I am trying to get some hours in here, until we can find a better system.

Also, what kind of activities count towards UA time? Can going grocery shopping or any shopping count? Organizing a party? Watching a movie or TV doesn't count right? During this time can we discuss LB and EN?

I would plan 4 - 4 hour dates out of the house. Exclude any TV or movies. Any time with children does not count, because it is not effective UA time. You should focus on meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs of affection, sexual fulfillment, conversation and recreational companionship.

It needs to be in 2 to 4 hour blocks and don't fall into the trap of "counting" bits and pieces of time when you pass in the kitchen or hallway at home or have a phone conversations. Many couples will do this as a pencil whipping exercise.

Some of our best UA time is spent shopping! So if he enjoys that, go for it. We usually go out for dinner and drive and then go shopping. Those are some of our best dates.

The idea is to DATE each other.

Yeah, I figured movies/tv would not count. What about any time at home while kids are asleep that is not used watching tv and is at least a 2 hour block? What about his behavior? is that normal? Is he going through withdrawal? I am trying to get the 4 DATES a week but it might be difficult to manage with the kids BUT I will do all in my power to do at least 2- 4hr DATES a week and then add another few 2/3 hour blocks on the other 5 days of the week.

UA time spent at home is lousy and largely ineffective, because couples new in recovery would rather be doing just about anything else. Also, the time after the kids are asleep is late when parents are exhausted and frumpy looking. It is very easy to get distracted by the phone, computer, waiting chores, etc. Dr Harley and Joyce don't even do their UA time at home for this reason.

very true.... putting baby to sleep is the difficult part, I will see what I can do and who I can get to help us out, I have at least 2 people I know will help out. that is why I said I can have 2 dates a week definitely... but I know it is not enough.

Have you seen this?
Critical Importance of Undivided Attention

I will read it. I know the UA time is critical, specially with our depleted Love banks. I am trying to figure out how we can get this time. It is not easy when you have 3 kids with one being a baby, the bank account is pretty much broke, too and no family close by to help. I do have at least one person willing to watch them once a week, for free. One that will also watch them once a week for some spending cash. I gotta see if any mom wants to exchange babysitting. If it was the older 2 kids only, it'd be easier to find the time but with the baby, it is a little more complicated BUT I will find a way. Right now we are spending all free time together with the kids and then when they go to bed, another hour or two either playing a game like scrabble or watching a show together (which I know does not count as UA) considering it's only been a week since he came back and I guess he might be going through a little withdrawal, it is time I use to just cuddle and give him some affection.

Ok, guys I need some advice/help/opinions. It has been 3 weeks since my WH's affair ended. I know that they have not contacted each other because the OW, has temporarily moved to another state and she has a new number and my WH does too. I managed to get her husband to change it at the same time I changed my WH's. I know because I called her husband to check how things were going. He said they are working on reconciling and that they were staying with her parents in another state until he could finalize his work transfer. He has a gps tracker on her vehicle and access to her new cellphone/internet social media, etc.

Here is the issue, my WH is coming home on time, accounting for money, I can track his whereabouts, etc. but he is completely cold with me. He will sometimes reply "I love you, too" after I say it. All I get is a little peck, no hugs no affection or attention at all. We can be in the same room, sitting next to each other and I reach to hold his hand and he just lets me hold it but it is just so cold. Every attempt at UA, he sabotages some how. He allows the kids to stay up later than their bed time. He always find something that needs to be taken care of, i.e. the car needs a repair, the yard needs cut, etc. I just don't know what to do. He is withdrawing the last bit of love units he has in his account. When I express my feelings (trying really hard to not fall into DJ), all he says is "well, I already told you how I feel and I just don't know what to do with my feelings (for her)". He says "I want to recover our marriage", but makes absolutely no effort what so ever and to make it worse sabotages mine. If I didn't talk to him, he wouldn't bother talking to me. He does spend a lot of time with the kids but they see how he treats me and my oldest son asked me the other day if we were going to move out of the country in the summer. When I told him Daddy and I were trying to make our marriage work, his reply was "YOU plan to stay with that JERK?" I told him that no matter what he should not speak that way of his father and he owed his father respect, he (and he is right to a certain degree) "respect is not something I owe him, he needs to earn it and he is really not getting any brownie points with me acting the way he is towards you". I only mention this so you can see how bad WH's attitude is, that even my child sees it. Should I give him more time or should I call it quits? Should I ask him to leave and not come back unless he decides to put forth an effort to save this marriage? It really is starting to affect me emotionally.

It sounds a whole lot like you are Plan A ing AFTER the A is over. Plan A is only used during an active affair and for no more than 3-4 weeks, which you have already surpassed. It is going to start affecting you emotionally and physically and you will also continue to deplete your own LB.

Withdrawal is going to happen but that does not mean your WH doesn't have to commit to recovery. Ending the A is an important step but equally important is committing to recovery. He is not doing that, he is avoiding recovery and everything that is required to pay you JC.

Are you doing the online program or counseling with the Harley's at all?

If he refuses to commit to recovery, then it is time for a Plan B.

If your H is suffering from withdrawal, he should see his doctor for ADs, starting with one with the fewest side effects. Dr. Harley recommends starting with Wellbutrin or its generic equivalent, because side effects are minimal. It doesn't affect sexual performance either.

Even though your H is in withdrawal, in order for recovery to take place, he needs to commit to eliminating his love busters and to meeting your emotional needs. This is essential! This is the "Fake it till you make it" part of recovery. Neither you nor he may FEEL like being meeting ENs, but for recovery to take place, it still has to be done, even if it's not fully genuine.

You both need to follow the policy of UA time, making time each week to meet each others emotional needs. If you let this part slide, recovery won't have much of a chance, because meeting the ENs takes time. Do whatever you have to do to make this part happen. The Harleys sometimes spent more on babysitting than they did on their mortgage when their children were young!

If he refuses to commit to recovery, I'd go into Plan B. A crippled marriage will be hell for you to live in.

That is what I figured, just wanted to make sure I was not over reacting or not giving him a chance to deal with withdrawal. I guess all I can do is ask him to please leave. I can't move out of the country yet, so he will have to support us 100% until he decides to either commit or allow me to move the kids.

Hi Susie,

How are you doing?

Is your H still avoiding recovery?

Did he get on ADs?

Did you go to Plan B?

Hey, Thanks for asking. Things have slowly gotten better, not where they should be but he is making an effort, every day he improves a little. He has an appointment with his doctor on Tuesday, told him to ask about ADs. He has no ao's, he calls to report his whereabouts, if he is running late, if he has to work late, etc. Our baby turned 1 last Sunday, we had a party at the playground for him, my H had a mini anxiety attack a little before it was time to go to the playground. He was embarrassed to have to face people I had told about his affair. I told him that first of all, not everyone there knew and the ones that knew, also have known him for a long time and they know he is a good man that made a huge mistake but was strong enough to recognize and work on fixing his mistake to save his marriage and family. I told him to request AD's from his doctor.

I saw your post on another thread regarding your WH still being unhappy about exposure and that's a bit of a red flag. Dr Harley has said a WH should be on bended knee and hat in hand. And I see here that you have posted that your WH has been cold to you and not really wanting to spend time with you. That is another red flag.

How many UA hours a week away from your children are you getting? How is he doing the UA time?

Did you ever end up setting up a VAR in his car?

He mostly has said he doesn't understand why the kids needed to know. He has not confronted me about it or made any angry comments about it. I read a facebook pm from a friend of his who I exposed to and my H just replied that he wished I had not exposed to everyone but that it is done and he was back home and trying to work out our marriage and he appreciated the support and prayers from his friends and was glad to see no one was acting judgemental.

We are spending about 10hrs, it's been hard because the babysitting situation and the oldest and youngest are sick, we've had car issues, so he has been working on the cars on the little free time we have.

I do have a var but he does not use the car to get to the jobsites, he goes to his boss's shop and takes the work van to the jobsites BUT he has been home on time and even taken off of work early to come spend time with me (even though the baby is usually with us at those times). No he is not all over romantic and on his knees hat in hand. He has been more willing the last week or so, since our baby's birthday when he had a breakdown because he was embarrassed to have to face people who knew about the affair. He figured he'd look like the a**hole. When he saw no one batted an eye at the party, he came home more relaxed and happy.

Susie,

A couple observations:

First, all social media should be eliminated.
Second, you need to spend about 20 hours a week together. 10 hours a week may not lead you to recovery and if you absolutely cannot spend the 20 hours a week together then I suggest you write to Dr. Harley for guidance. Divorce may be an option.

We both use social media. We have each others acct passwords. I might be wrong or setting myself up but I cannot ask him to close his social media when I am active on mine. We sat and he eliminated/blocked everyone I did not agree he had as friends and he did. We changed his privacy settings, made him unsearchable and even change his name and profile pic to something general. He has a few friends and his family.

He is not refusing to spend the time together and YES I know it should be around 20hrs, we are doing what we can with what we have available in terms of child care. I don't see how Divorce would be necessary or a better option because we have not found suitable childcare, that we can afford, for our children. We have things that need to be taken care of and settled so we can have the chance of spending more time together. There has been a real improvement in the amount of time we spend together compared to pre affair. Also, it has only been about a month since all contact ended and every week we have added time, he knows we need more time and is willing to spend the time, we are doing the best we can with the time we do have. We are trying to add another an hour or 2 hours each week, until we can build it up to at least the 15.

Susie,

ALL conditions that led to the affair should be cut off and closed.

People survived for a little while before FB.

LTL