Been "shelving" my feelings for a while, told husband last week that I didn't know what to do with my feelings - to set up another appointment so I could get them out, but he set up a "family" appointment.<P>I am sick of sitting there and listening to him lie with the counselor. I don't agree with her point of view. <P>Here are some of the things she is saying. <P>#1 "Nobody can make anyone rob a bank if that is not in their value system." <P>#2 "If this family is telling lies, it is because they are afraid of telling the truth".<P>#3 "Teenagers should not be grounded. They are almost adults and should be making their own decisions. Grounding never works. It will do no good to punish a teenager. Grounding is too harsh of a consequence for a teenager."<P>#4 "Being rigid with your standards causes people to lie."<P>#5 "Bad behavior is never corrected with negative consequences".<P>#6 "You are not who you associate with".<P>Those are just some. I am sooo frustrated. <P>She says I look at things in black and white. I am rigid. <P>She does NOT see the lies. <P>Ugghhh. I am really frustrated. I am really really frustrated. Stupid me, for putting any hope into counseling.<P>SD#1 (16 yr old) has NO consequence for staying out all night and not coming home, 3 nights in less than 2 weeks. She did apologize to me in counseling, and gave me a hug. And I appreciate this. But I feel like this counselor is creating an environment for more crap for me. I feel no justice in this situation.<P>Now I am worried about an STD. But, in her opinion, my husband does not seem like the kind of guy who would cheat on his wife..... ???? WHAT? We can't get anywhere with this counselor. <P>I told my husband at the end of counseling that this is not going to work, I just feel out of steam.<P>Ugghhh. Cry. Tears. Anger. Wet keyboard. Uggggghhhhh<p>[This message has been edited by trustntruth (edited November 08, 1999).]

Is there no way to get another counselor?<BR>Man I am open minded and flexible, but from you've written she needs another line of work. <BR>I will keep you in my thoughts. Sorry for the pain! I can't say much else! Dry your key board off so you can continue to vent here! <BR>HUGS TO YOU and those teenagers!<BR><P>------------------<BR>Mater<P>

Connie,<P>I just caught your post. I am so sorry. I haven't a lot of time now to post. <P>I agree can't you get another counselor? Just tell your husband...wait maybe a better idea? How about asking husband if you guys could get a counselor just for the two of you? Would that be possible?<P>Stay in the family thing for now. <P>I often don't agree with my daughters counselor and she used to be mine. How's that to have the person you trusted and can't afford to see any more take your daughters side and not consider your feelings anymore? Oh well she is paid to be on my daughters side right? <P>I will write more later when I have a moment but, if I don't get off this puter and clean up myself and house I will be "Love Busting."<P>I am off to the mantle for you now. <P>{{{{{{{{{Connie}}}}}}}}}}<P><P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR>

TnT:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Stupid me, for putting any hope into counseling.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No, I think the counselor is the one who is stupid. You don’t HAVE to stay with that one, you know. But of course... your H likely would be adverse to finding one that wouldn’t enable his lying, like this one does. <P>For me... counseling has worked wonders... but I would imagine you need a competent counselor. <BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

Thanks Mater and Samantha.<P>I don't even know what to say. I hate being so negative.<P>I can just break out in tears every 3 minutes. It's all I can do to just get through one day at a time. <P>I feel sooooo stupid. I know I'm not a piece of @#$%, and I told him so as I left the counseling. <P>The counselor said, well - I'll call you, Husband at work. (To schedule another crap session? To decide amongst themselves what the next session should be about?) Whatever...<P>I said thank you for your time. I gave no indication that I would be coming back for more crap. I told H to just go home, and come back later and pick me up on the road on the way home.<P>I walked about an hour before he sent SIL to come pick me up on the road. He took off with the kids. Came back acting as jolly as can be. No consideration at all for my feelings whatsoever.<P>He called this morning, and I was crying. Wants me to get out again. W R O N G. I AM NOT LEAVING MY SON P E R I O D<P>

TNT<P>I don't thing counseling is the problem... I think <B>your counselor</B> is <B>the problem</B>!<P>Some of the things she says would drive me insane... that's why I stopped going to my therapist too. I will find a new one sooner or later... so far I'm OK!<P>Now... some of the stupid things she's said...<P>#1 "Nobody can make anyone rob a bank if that is not in their value system." <BR><B>*****</B>Who in their right mind has "infidelity"... "bank robbery"... or anything like this in their value system?<P>#2 "If this family is telling lies, it is because they are afraid of telling the truth".<BR><B>*****Dah...</B> isn't it your counselor's job to remove that fear?... to bring out the truth... is she just abdicating her role?<P>#3 "Teenagers should not be grounded. They are almost adults and should be making their own decisions. Grounding never works. It will do no good to punish a teenager. Grounding is too harsh of a consequence for a teenager."<BR><B>*****</B>If the parent isn't the best judge of how to discipline (not punish but <B>discipline</B>) who is?... the child's? Disciplining is helping your child grow... "grounding", or just about anything, can be effective... especially when offered with an expression of real family love! Yes,... this can be rejected... that's where a person (at the right age... adulthood IMHO) can't be forced to do what you want!<P>#4 "Being rigid with your standards causes people to lie."<BR><B>*****</B>People don't lie because of rules/standards... they lie in spite of them. When temptation for wrong overcomes <B>those</B> good values!<P>#5 "Bad behavior is never corrected with negative consequences".<BR><B>*****</B>This liberal garbage just wreaks of a total misunderstanding of true parental love. LOVE=RESPONSIBILITY. Good and bad consequences fall from both good and bad behavior... to exclude responsibility is to exclude Love. <P>#6 "You are not who you associate with".<BR><B>*****</B>This is true... but if you assume you are <B>not</B> affected by who you associate with (OP w/ betrayer... betrayer w/ OP)... or anyone with any friend (good or bad)... you must be dillusional!<P>Don't tell you H "this isn't going to work"...<BR><B>Get a new counselor!!!</B><P>Staying with this one will kill your marriage, kill your family... and kill your desire to live a healthy life!<P>I'm praying for you!<BR>Don't think your crazy...<BR>Yes... some of the world has gone nuts... <B>but not you</B>! <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited November 08, 1999).]

Thanks Whodat.<P>Her VALUES are incompetent. She's not. She has no business saying the things that she says, she is WAY OFF BASE. SHE IS CLUELESS.<P>I am frustrated.<P>I like this lady as a person, but this is crap. <P>I showed her my bruises on our first attempt of counseling. She has suggested that my husband is controlling. But, her values stink, and unless her values are right, this is not going to work. Sure, I see some benefit, but I see long term harm, not help.<P>Ugghhh

TNT-<P>&*#%(*(#$*^*&(*#$_@*&#$*&@#)*(!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>OK, I feel a little better now. I figure that suggesting a new counselor would be completely out of the question, huh?<P>What is the deal? I have a teenager. They DO need and want boundaries. And even as adults we know that there are consequences to our actions. Why should it be any different for a teenager?<P>Sorry, makes me want to say bad things again.<P>I am ssoooo sorry for all your pain. You are such a strong remarkable woman. I am, however, very happy that you are not letting these idiots shake your values. <P>You have to keep going to the sessions, you know. Just to keep up with what's going on and maybe, just maybe, throw some sanity into this whole affair.<P>And you're right. Do not leave. Not without your son. <P>I wish I had some good advice for you. For now, my prayers and a lot of hugs, ok?<P>Stay strong.<P>Lori

You are absolutely right NSR<P>You and I think a lot a like Maybe YOU should be our counselor <P>I am wrong for lumping all my feelings into one box and saying THIS is not going to work because SHE is off base. Thanks for pointing that out.

Thanks Lori<P>Prayers won't hurt!<P>I don't even know if I want to go to anymore counseling. What is the point if all he does is lie? And lie and lie? What is the point?<P>Sure, I can change me not him. Yeah, I know that. But I don't think learning to accept a bunch of crap is what I need to change about me. <P>I think, learning how to defend myself and learning how to get shed of this whole mess is what I need, not some stupid family/marriage counselor that thinks I need to lower my standards so that these other people with half brains and no values can be happier.......<P>I am SOOO frustrated.<BR>

Black and white. I used to see in black and white. Still do sometimes. I have to work to see the gray. When is it ok to be a little fuzzy? Shouldn't the truth be told or is a little lie ok?<P>TNT, we know all lies are wrong, no matter how black, white, or gray they are. We also know that we can not think clearly when we are upset. We also know that it sure as heck feels good to get upset every once in awhile and let that out.<P>Time will tell huh? Don't you hate it when people say that? You should have mercy on those that are around you. What? No way! They all need a good smacking around!<P>Lord, I know that you are working in our lives right now. I know that I want your will to be done. Lord, keep me, TNT, and the others, in these trials that we face until we have received what it is that you have planned for us. I ask you Lord for two things, guidance, and the strength to carry on. In Jesus name we pray, Amen.<P>Chin up TNT.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Had a similar counseling session last week. My W got up and left because I was ducking questions about going back to school... Why we were talking about that instead of where our marriage is right now bothered me.<P>

TnT, What about a counselor for you? And what does your H have to set up the appointments? I have no idea in what typ of area you live in but Most towns have some type of counseling that you pay based on you ability to pay. Maybe this could help you work through these crap that this other person is saying. I have heard this before and the rsults were no results. Don't get me started on this I could.. never mind. BUt do try to get your own counselor to help you deal with this. And let him suggest going to her again you could say no thank you I see my own.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Aw, TNT.<P>A bad counselor is worse than no counselor, no matter how much you might like them on a personal basis. Our first counselor was clueless--but reminded me so much of my H (both in looks & depression) that I could hardly bear to cut off that relationship. Too strange.<P>Any chance you can get a Christian counselor? Who bases what is right and wrong on God's truth? It's really helped me--when I'm listening of course .<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)<P>

Connie,<P>#1 "Nobody can make anyone rob a bank if that is not in their value system." <P>But who is determining whether it is in their value system. She needs to unerstand that the sinful nature would allow you to rob a bank and not feel remorese for doing so. This is a liberal saying to allow someone to create their own reality which directly opposes God's will.<P>#2 "If this family is telling lies, it is because they are afraid of telling the truth". <P>Common sense, but this is another indication of living in the flesh which we all are capable of once we let pride get in the way. Keep praying for them to see Him in you. Remember loving them with the love He has taught you is like heaping hot coals on their heads. <P>#3 "Teenagers should not be grounded. They are almost adults and should be making their<BR>own decisions. Grounding never works. It will do no good to punish a teenager. Grounding<BR>is too harsh of a consequence for a teenager."<P>Sounds like she doesn't have children and hated her parents for punishing her for not following the rules. God says differently. Paraphrase: spare the rod spoil the child. The rod can take many forms. I use whatever is most effective at the time of the indiscretion.<P>#4 "Being rigid with your standards causes people to lie." <P>It is the waffling and inconsitency that causes people to lie. Once they think they can get away with it they will continue to lie. It is the flaw of living in the flesh.<P>#5 "Bad behavior is never corrected with negative consequences".<P>It certainly is never corrected with rewarding inappropriate behavior. Ask her why she thinks prisons exist and why God gives little warnings of the eternal death by punishing before the final punishment comes.<P>#6 "You are not who you associate with".<P>The Bible says that you should stay away from certain people when you are weak and susceptible to giving in to a temptation. Bad company does corrupt.<P>I pray for you daily. He will answer prayer. You sound strong in spite of the problems. He is already answering my prayers from that aspect.<P>MONDO HUG!!!!!!!!<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Hi TNT -<P>I am so sorry that you have to be so frustrated with all of this .....<P>I wish I could come there and the two of us could straighten them all out...I mean really, SD out all night? I DON"T THINK SO!!!!!<P>WHAT does H think she is doing? This is OK with him? THere's a brain anomaly going on here!!!!<P>Counselor thinks this is OK, too? Another brain anomaly...Are you sure this counselor is not related to H somehow? Sounds like it!!! GRRRR!!<P>It's gotta be awfully difficult to keep as much of this dysfunction away from your son as possible....GOD is with you - I am sure!! <P>Couple of thoughts....H probably wouldn't hear of another counselor, so how about you and/or your son getting another ..... sort of a double check with this one and also to cover any needs you or son may have in the future if he tries anything. I think that all this stuff should be on record and also that your son should have a record of what is and isn't effecting him.<P>Another thought on your current counselor...what about bringing some reference material to her and having her explain how she thinks as opposed to the other "guide" books that verify your thinking? Some stuff on how to deal wih teenagers, liars, dysfunctional families, etc.<P>What do you think?<P>Can you go to see her alone? Would she have to keep confidentiality? <P>I don't like this scene...not with what was going on with his thinking and then to be so "chummy" with this counselor!!<BR>It reeks of undertones....<P>One more thing...don't distance yourself from them...they might want that and call you withdrawn or something. Don't contribute to their attempts to dominate you in your own home and dismiss you as less than you are. Try to be pleasant and participate in family stuff....If you act distant - those girls are still left with no real guidance : they need your influence even if they don't know it or appreciate it.<P>Cover yourself TNT!!!<P>HUGS, STRENGTH and PRAYERS,<P>Sheba <p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited November 08, 1999).]

hi tnt, only have a sec, but sending some prayers your way. <BR>THink about something for a minute.....you are a very wise woman with a big heart. If you have to stay with this moron counselor (I had to keep one of those too ), then is there a way you can make it work for you? Manipulate the situation to your advantage? I don't mean to sound dishonest or slimy at all, but they are trying to do the same to you-so turn it around to work for you and your son? <BR>(((hugs))) and prayers, cl

Sounds like your counselor is not living in the real world. Sounds to me like feel good phycobabble where no one is responsible for their actions. It may be time to seek out a counselor who will show each one what areas they need to work on and their responsibility and accountibility for their actions and then help them to deal with their problems if that is what they want to do. My heart goes out to you , It sounds like you are in the middle of a tough situation<BR>

What a nightmare. Got some good suggestions from you all.<P>1) Get a counselor for me and for our son. <BR>2) Don't distance myself from his kids.<BR>3) Pick a Christian counselor (big time important, huh? yup!!!)<BR>4) Consider hanging in there with this counselor and "enlighten" her.....<P>I think you guys are giving me good ideas. <P>Paul, I think I should "practice mercy", but I shouldn't have to compromise my values. Thanks for the prayer. It is really frustrating. Being a Christian puts so much more accountabiity on us, and we do need to forgive 70x7. Mercy is doing the extra. Being extravagant. Undeserved kindness. I do this, but maybe I could go further. I should look for ways to be more merciful. <P>But that doesn't mean that I have to change what I believe is right and wrong. By asking me to do so, it is "legitimate" anger.<P>Thanks for your input, and I really do appreciate your reminders! I am going to stay in this situation until God teaches me something. I'm not going through this for nothin'!!! I expect to learn a lot!<P>Stonehenge - I'm sure you want to talk about your marriage. It's been on your mind 24/7 since all this started, right? You are the injured party, right? But the counselor talking about school for wife makes sense. She needs to repair her self esteem, and when she has healthy self esteem - she will be a better marriage partner. I know how it feels to have issues and have them discounted and ignored. You hang in there. You guys are gonna make it. You've been down a long road - and you are almost there. God Bless You.<P>SDS - I think I'll take you up on the counselor for me idea. I need to get stronger than I am. <P>He's setting up the appointments because it is through his employee assistance program. He threw a fit because I was going to set up my own appointment when this new set of crisis's started. I don't need him to do this, I am perfectly capable. I allowed him to control this just to keep him from harping about it. I have the legal right and capabilities to do this myself, but he refused to allow me to do this, because it was HIS employee assistance program..... Controller.....<P>Lor, A Christian Counselor is to me the only thing that makes any sense at all. At least we can agree on Bible principles, and to me, that is the solid foundation of all truth. Your counselor sounds good. I wish he lived here!<P>Professorg - Those mondo hugs felt good <BR>I really could use someone squeezing my hand and telling me it will all be okay. I think I want my mamma!!~! I think that her advice and liberal attitude is definitely allowing others to create their own reality. Geez.<BR>She's older than me, I don't think I am going to convince her of anything, and I really don't care how she thinks. What I care about is what she is telling us - as if her ideals and values are absolute truths, and they aren't!!! And she thinks that I need to learn acceptance...... I can accept a lot, in my opinion, without compromising my values. But, I am not going to agree with her that her that what she thinks is correct. UGGHHH!!! Thanks for your prayers, and I love the daily devotions you send. It has really helped me many many times. How do you know the difference between right and wrong, and sit there and listen to some authority figure tell you otherwise? Uggghhhhh!!! Yuck Twice!<P>Sheba, you have some really really good points. I know I am the best thing that ever happened to this family. Why is that so threatening? Is it pride? Perhaps this counselor feels threatened too? A little Holy Spirit Conviction going on, and they are fighting it? I don't know. You are right, he's not going to want to change counselors. And why does he insist on bringing the kids to our marriage counseling? He is one clueless person, or he is soooo munipulative. One or the other. I was pretty specific when I made my request. So, that is just one more frustration to throw on that shelf for some other time. <P>CL - I don't know if I could pull it off. I know my limitations. I cannot sit there and listen to lies, and feel attacked and blamed for everything and just sit there. We don't have normal counseling sessions, we have 4, 2.5, 3, 3.5 hour sessions. It is too much to take. It is almost like emotional torture. Bunch of crap, is what it is.<P>Confusedalot, You are right, this is one big mess. It just keeps getting messier. Gonna have to see gynecologist about STD this week, too. Bunch of psychobabble is right. I think it is counselors with liberal - create your own reality - garbage thinking that gives psychologists bad names, and what they do "jargon" ie: psychobabble.<P>I wish he would agree to the counseling on this site. If wishes were horses......<BR>

What is the big dilemma? Get a new counselor? Duh!! She obviously has no idea what she is doing so go to someone else. Seems simple to me!!<P>------------------<BR>Rachel :)<P>