Is this your first marriage?

It is my first marriage. I think that is partly due to picking bad men to date, and reacting to things not working well by throwing myself into other activities that I was much more successful at. I think a concentrated effort to do the 30 date approach, and taking things very slow would have been a more effective approach for finding a good long term mate.

When I start dating again, (if this is unfixable, as I am guessing it is), that would be my approach. If I had done that, I never would have made it to marriage with my H because I would have been in a better position to decide against it after the first red flag. Getting so serious, so fast, does bad things to my ability to stand up for myself. Too invested. And it is easier to not take that personally after learning that is a normal human response, and not some innate failing of my personality.

And it should be easier since there are other good things in my life right now that I am enjoying very much.

Have you read the book Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders?

Here's a good thread on this. Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

I have read the book. I'll go through the discussion thread to see what that says.

My downfall is sacrificing, and the natural resentment it creates. It was hard to be a buyer with my husband, because we didn't follow the POJA as much as we should have. That is the first step.

Brainhurts,

I have a question about POJA. A few weeks back, when I had initiated contact to the H due to the tragedy in his family, I found out that he got a tattoo with his siblings to commemorate his brother. A large one. I hate those things, and he knows it. So I know I'd get upset feelings every time I saw it if I ever see him again (I am not breaking plan B, this is a hypothetical if). I can't imagine him agreeing to get rid of it, though in honesty, that is my desire.

Does this fall in the realm of POJA? It seems like it to me. Beyond all the other horrible issues, this alone seems to make things unworkable for me. Is this a reasonable boundary in a marriage?

This might be obvious to others, but I can only imagine the criticism I would be subject to for making that request from him and his family and need a reality check on this.

Thanks.

Yes, tattoos and even hair styles fall within the realm of POJA. Everything does. The only exception is in cases concerning health and safety.

Yes everything falls under POJA. There was a radio show about this very subject. A wife wanted a tattoo and her husband didn't.

I can find it if you'd like to listen to it.

Did you email Dr. Harley?

We did a long time ago and learned that we had a problem with sacrificing and should be following PJOA. My H was less enthusiastic about it than I was because he felt there was nothing I like to do. We added Yoga and coffee talks on Saturdays because of efforts to find RA so I struggled to understand why he couldn't believe further improvements were possible.

We did counseling with his son and things with the other people ramped up around that time. Perhaps I could have handled it better, but in the end I had to get away because it was tearing me apart. Everyone else was more important - something he point blank told me.

I am having a very bad day. Okay two days. I have a deadline coming up and that might be pushing my buttons, but I want nothing more than to call him and tell him I'll do whatever if we could just work on things.

What is stopping me is know I can't "do whatever" because I get too resentful. But I am feeling weak and desperate enough to go to that awful place for a while. If I make it through this day without breaking down and doing it, it will be huge.

I miss our life together, even when I was working full time and he stayed at home, because at least he was home when I got there and we could go for walks and hold hands and talk. Now I am working but when I come home there is nobody. I really miss talking to him.

Honestly, I feel very confused. You guys tell me I did the right thing and that my pain was real and I shouldn't be treated that way, but I can't help feeling that if I had done something better it wouldn't have worked out this way. I mean, if I did the right thing, then why is the end result that I am alone and in so much pain?

LA, I am so sorry you are in such pain today. But it won't always be this way if you cut off all contact. The longer you go with no contact, the sooner it will be that you don't miss him. Contacting him will make you feel WORSE, not better. It also makes you look so unattractive to him. Don't do that to yourself. Let your logic override your emotions. It is so very important to your emotional well being.

Please help luna_alpha today and don't allow her to contact him, which will result in greater emotional devastation.

Thank you MelodyLane. I don't need more pain today. Someday that reason alone will be enough, but hearing that it will make me look unattractive to him really pushes it to a place I don't want to go.

Brainhurts, I would like to hear the show about the tattoos. Thank you.

Luna Alpha,

Being in Plan B as well, I have those days/moments sometimes and it's all the harder for me because I know my husband is constantly bothering my IM about everything (I don't know about what, although I know it has been happening throughout).

But then I think about the terrible OW-- who has the morality of a two-cent prostitute and totally didn't mind contributing to breaking up a family that included a two year-old-- and I think, "there is no way I could be less attractive or valuable than that." And that thought helps.

Good on you for staying strong.

Here it is. It's the last question.

Radio Clip on Getting a Tattoo

Thanks Brainhurts.

PigletWiglet, thanks for sharing. I think it would be harder if he was trying to contact me, like yours is and you have a child together. I just can't get over how selfish some people are and have no respect for boundaries (OW). All about what they want, and screw everyone else.

Made it through the weekend, although all I want to do is contact him and tell him I don't want a divorce and can't we just work things out? (cue begging) And that will get me some mean comment. My mom says he'll figure it out when it's too late. That is not much comfort.

Plan Luna. Well, I got the bed put together (Ikea deal). It was easier than I thought it'd be, even with making a mistake and having to go back a step and fix it. Not sleeping on a mattress on the floor is a nice change.

Got lots of sleep on Friday. My body seems to be going back to normal after all that stress. First normal 'month' in about the last three. That is a good sign. I don't need my health falling apart on top of everything else.

Brainstormed with some friends about fun things to do this summer. It looks like Venice, South Korea and working a job on the east coast for a week (visiting people there I really like) might be the itinerary. Plus a trip home to the midwest. Lucky I can travel. Now to find a way to make it fun, and not an opportunity to mope about the H (or possibly ex-H at that point). We used to travel together but stopped because I was always working for us. My traveling days don't have to be over, do they? No. They don't. There are seven billion people in this world, dang it, there has to be someone who likes me and wants a real commitment.

Have you changed your contact information so he can't contact you?

Sure there is.
Just make sure you wait for divorce to be finalized before you meet him

Phone is blocked from his numbers, my email forwards. Yes, he could find a way around this, but in the entire time of our relationship, he rarely contacts me on his own, and never to fix a fight or a breakup. I can think of one instance he called me at work because I had not contacted him in a while.

I can't say enough that I am breaking the rules of our relationship by not calling him and pushing for it to continue. I feel massively guilty about this. In the five years I have known him, I always contacted him over and over again, sweet talked him into us. So despite what he has done, somehow I feel personally responsible for the end because I am no playing my designated role.

That role is a dead end in almost any marriage. I have yet to see that setup work for a marriage anywhere.

So I take it I shouldn't feel guilty about abandoning this dead end for myself.

Dr. Harley states that men don't respect women who chase them. You have chased him your whole relationship. So it's no surprise he hasn't tried to contact you, sorry.

Now it's time to stay in your dark Plan b and heal. Have you looked at all at pictures or his social media's?

Where are you at in the divorce proceedings?