Hi all,

I'm writing for some advice/feedback/support. I feel really alone and am wondering if I am even doing the right thing trying to save my marriage.

My husband asked me for a divorce in the fall. We have fought pretty awfully through out our marriage. He tells me that before he met me, he got angry twice in his life and I am now to blame for him now having a temper.

I managed to talk him into trying the marriage builders course and it came with some improvements. He tells me the last time he felt 'in-love' with me was after we had done some of those worksheets about nine months ago. This was after he had stood on a street corner telling me he hated me.

We don't have any kids, or any glue really, to keep us together. I supported him because he could not get a job due to bad grades, plus paid off his student loans and paid tuition so he could improve his chances of grad school. Two years (two rounds) later, with lots of encouragement, he gets in and the minute he can support himself he wants me gone. I feel like an idiot.

It is so demoralizing to realize your husband cannot stand you, and would take everyone else's side against you, no matter what they have done (I can get into specifics).

He moved out a month ago after a big fight - and I have to say I don't blame him, it was pretty bad. I talked to him about changing our situation first (no more sacrificing - I'm currently working a job I hate two hours away because I thought I had to for him) so we could both be happy before changing our marital status. I've been going back and forth between his town and where I went to school last year on a weekly basis, just so we could both do what we wanted to. I had worked jobs I hated for three years for him, and he told me flat out he was going to this school whether I liked it or not. Like it or lump it. (yeah, I know a mistake to spend nights apart, but I couldn't just come to this town and sit around. I got a full fellowship at this school and really wanted to go.) He would not even consider trying to work out some alternate year schedule, he was just so done with everything.

Anyhow, I got him into phone counseling with Dr. Harley this past month, and we were making some progress, even though every time he showed up to do something he looked depressed as hell and kept telling me he didn't want to do it, that he just wanted our marriage to be over.

My husband thinks that Dr. Harley is crazy for his definition of acceptable friendship with the opposite sex. At one point he went to go have one on one coffee with a woman from school, instead of doing what he told me he'd do, while I was having a colonoscopy done right before xmas. I burst into tears when I found out and the doctor made him wait in the waiting room and talked to me so kindly I couldn't stop crying. My husband just gets irate at me for "being jealous." That latter part is always said so spitefully and condescendingly. I told him it bothered me. It bothered me even more because this is a woman that brags about divorcing her husband and how wonderful my husband is to talk to. He eats this up. I asked him not to do that anymore. He refused. I wrote her an email, asking her to not do that (crossing the line I guess) and she tells people about this. So my husband is mad at me for making 'scurrilous accusations' and thinks it is okay that others gossip about me.

The past week got even worse. I don't even want to write about it. My husband wanted me to sign the papers immediately. I talked him into waiting until after his test in 10 days - and our four year anniversary. I think he just gave up the argument at that point, but I would guess has no intention of ever trying with me again.

Has anyone here recovered from having a spouse absolutely loathing you?

Can we do it if his friends hate me?

Oh, I am dealing with his friends gossiping about me and I asked he what he thought of that.

"As to her gossiping, of course I'd prefer people to not know how you behave."

I think thst your H is having at least an EA with this woman and that is why things are bad for you and why he is so insistent that Dr. Harley is wrong about OS friendships.

luna,

What type of counseling are you receiving over the phone?
Are you doing the Marriage Coaching program with Steve Harley?

We are (were) doing it with Steve Harley. I think this week's appointment is cancelled, at least as a far as he is concerned. I am still going to talk to him.

I think I need to get some prozac. I've never taken anything like that in my life, but
I want something to help relieve the panic. I need to stop clinging to him. It is back firing.

Thank you for the validations on the EA. This might be crazy, but I think he is having an EA with a whole group of people. They study together forty hours a week, they do recreational activities, they eat meals and stay up late playing board games. This is all because they are so 'stressed out' about this upcoming test. I am no dummy - going through that test together and the intense emotions it is bringing up is a whole new bonding experience. I am completely excluded from all of this.

It feels so hopeless.

To be fair, he did later apologize for the extreme meanness of the comment about the gossip, blaming on being tired. That was a welcome event.

I think you should speak to Steve Harley about preparing for a separation.

How do I arrange for a separation when he is pushing for a divorce?

Well, I can't help with legal details.
Other posters can help with that.
I can only tell you that Dr. Harley does not recommend that a wife remain in an emotionally or physically unsafe place.
In your case, your husband is probably sleeping around and Harley almost always recommends the wife get away from him and enter "Plan B" in such circumstances.

Ideally, you should spend this time snooping and getting some evidence of any affair though

Can you afford a PI?

I can afford a PI. Are they really that effective?

Yes, we've had many board members get the results they needed.
Private Investigators

I have a question. I begged my husband (basically) to not insist I get the papers notarized and start the process going again if I would leave him alone for the next 10 days so he can study for this test without our stress.

It is driving me crazy. I am so anxious and having nightmares that he is just forgetting me. He is going out with all these people, spending all day studying with them, getting lots of love units from anyone around.

I am not in the mix at all.

On the other hand, if I do contact him, I feel like I am doing a love buster of some sort. And if that is what he wants, and I don't respect it, then aren't I just confirming to him that I have no care for his needs?

Please advise me on how to handle this. Do I knuckle down and stay away? If yes, please send me some encouragement. This is so difficult. What should I do?


Also, this is so hard to admit that I did this, but I will. Please help.

After a week of husband studying with, dining with, recreating with a group including a woman that he had inappropriately shared information with. This is a group mind you, that he has told me he doesn't think will pass this test. I ask him repeatedly to study with better students and mix it up a bit. I tell him specifically it causes me a lot of stress he is spending so much time with that girl. He gets mad at me over my "unreasonable jealousy" and that she has a committed boyfriend (across the country and who will not marry her). On a hunch, that thursday, I drove 2 hours home from the temp job and stop over at his place and find that she is there for dinner. (It is a group living arrangement, she is friends with the owner, so it is not clear cut that my husband did this or was responsible). The owner of the house and this woman are office mates at school, so it could just as well be that he invited her.

My husband will not let me in that home, because it is his 'safe place'.

So I am standing outside, she and the whole group is inside and he tells me he would like to get back in since they are 'still eating'. I cry, ask him to not do this. He gets mad. He had packed some food for me take home. How pathetic do I feel?

I manage to get home. He ignores my contact. I ended up emailing this woman's long distance boyfriend and close family members telling them of my husband's and I's situation and asking them to please influence this woman to give my husband and me some space.

I have no evidence at this time. I think I was temporarily insane. I just wanted my husband back.

MY HUSBAND IS FURIOUS. I beg forgiveness, and cry for hours.

He wants me to write her an apology letter. I tried to draft it, but I keep finding out things that he discussed with her and never told me. I got so angry the first time, I had to put it aside.


So,

1. Should I write this apology email to make my husband happy? (he has been looking at the drafts - it is sad that I cling to that contact).

2. Should I leave my husband alone for the next ten days?

After seeing it on paper, I feel a little less like I am a completely crazy person.

I see so many red flags for an affair. A person in an affair demonises their spouse and talks about divorce like its happening tomorrow. However they rarely 'do' anything. They don't ask for any changes in the marriage nor do they file most of the time.

Even when they file they still expect time with you. When they want it, that is.

He will not be expecting you to snoop nor will he be expecting a no contact Plan B.

Your husband wants you to beg for his time and be available.

You need to snoop then prepare for Plan B. His behaviour is not about you - it is about his trying to control and juggle you alongside the OW.

Again,

I encourage you to speak with Steve Harley about planning for separation.
In your case, I think you need to separate from him ASAP and enter "Plan B."

Considering that he is making her write this humiliating letter to the mistress, I agree. OW love making wives do this stuff.

You could separate and have a PI follow him for a few days.

One thing you should not do is send that letter. Tell him you feel heartbroken he is not prioritising you over a female friend and just vanish for a bit. Have a PI follow him when he has some space to mess up.

He did file the papers, he just never got me to notarize them. So does that fit? He would have to get someone to serve me with them if I don't do this.

He also moved out.

He did do this odd thing, where it was clear he was counting on coming up to the city where I work for the day after his test - our four year anniversary - all the while pushing me away the rest of the time. So right now, the plan is I come down then, on his schedule I guess. That fits.

So what do I do beyond hiring the PI? And getting some anti-depressants.

Do I not contact him? He already said rather condescendingly that I've promised this before and never made it more than 12 hours. (I do panic without him.) So does that mean he is fully expecting me to not be able to do this, and then be able to hold it over my head?

I hear that you guys think he is having an affair.

I read a thread about internal/external locus of control. That helped calm my thinking. I don't trust my judgement or experience in this matter so if anyone here can give me step by step, I'd appreciate it.

Thank you IG, JK, and BH for the specific advice. It helps tremendously.

Did he move back in or does he still not live with you?

You should be snooping and finding out everything you can about this "friend".

I just feel there is way more than meets the eye here and he is gaslighting you, making it seem like you are just "jealous" or "crazy" or whatever just to knock you off the fact that there is something going on

Luna,

Please read about "Plan B" on this website.
When do you next speak with Steve Harley?
I suggest you tell Steve Harley what you posted in this forum and tell him that the Forum is encouraging you to separate from your husband and ask Steve Harley what his thoughts are on this.

He does not live with me. He moved out and started the divorce process a month ago.

I think he got a new phone. We had a shared plan and he has not been making any calls for the last two days and now there is zero data use.

It is hard to believe this is all gas lighting. He got serious about not wanting to be with me last fall as soon as we got to the school and he had other options. I blame myself for not dropping everything and signing up for phone counseling then. Every time things were smooth, I'd think we were safe. It took less and less to set him off.

I appreciate the thoughts that there is something going on but cannot help but feel it is my AO, DJ that have done this whole thing in.

My appointment is tomorrow.

I would handle it by changing the locks and leaving his stuff on the front lawn!

As far as needing time alone, everybody needs an escape, but married people need to get that escape with their spouse. Spending enjoyable time with a person is how you fall in love with them. Your husband is doing that with everybody else. That is the very definition of an affair.

It's not a "scurrilous accusation" to spread around the fact that your husband DATES OTHER WOMEN, which is exactly what he is doing.

You have already been subjected to this long enough to start endangering your health. You need to follow a plan to protect yourself from the further damage he can do. He can call this plan off at any point when he agrees to STOP DATING OTHER WOMEN and START DATING HIS WIFE. If he will never agree to that or wants to make compromises, you are better off with no contact with him at all.


You need to withdraw from him like withdrawing from a drug addiction: you need to go cold turkey. It will hurt horribly at first, but after a couple of weeks you will begin to feel better.


You have done nothing wrong whatsoever, but your husband is using brainwashing and mind control tactics to try to persuade you otherwise.


Yes you do. Your husband is DATING OTHER WOMEN. That's an affair.


You need to stop begging this abuser to forgive you. You need to get some time away from him and make it impossible for him to contact you so the mind control can stop.


This is an abusive mind control tactic.


Making your husband happy won't save your marriage, and it won't make him want to make you happy.


You should leave him alone until he promises to give you full transparency in his life and never contact anyone again that you are not enthusiastic about. That might mean for the rest of his life.

Please read Dr. Harley's articles that can help you:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_quit2.html

Change the locks!
Honey, you've got to stand up for yourself. Stop begging forgiveness. Stop bending over backwards to get him to pay attention to you.

Did you read about Plan B? This is what you need to do.

And change those locks! Tell everybody you know that your husband is DATING other women. He's no longer welcome to be around you.

Everybody needs to know this, so they can support you.

That's terrible!

Taking a woman for coffee is called a DATE.

It doesn't become "not a date" just because he calls it something different.

NO wife should put up with her husband dating other women. He can call it whatever he wants, but it's still a date. Change the locks, expose him, go to Plan B, and be done with him.

Thank you all.

What actions will you be taking?

He will be off the lease, the locks changed.

I am struggling to find a doctor locally to get anti-depressants from. I'll keep working on it.

I will talk to Dr. Harley about the rest tomorrow.
The rest being:
- Do I send a response, if any about the request for an apology.
- Do I plan B it.
- Do I expose what I know.

I understand you have all successfully done this, but I have spent most of this relationship trying get him to stay and I think my self-esteem is really in the gutter. Even he says he feels bad and that dragging things out is bad for me.

I had really wanted to save this marriage, I am still in love with this man. He does meet a lot of my needs, the abuse is just below the level of my hating him - most of the time. I guess I still do what to save this marriage.

This is probably not healthy, but my ego and heart hurt at how easily I foresee him moving on. Not my problem I know, but I put a lot into this marriage and provided financial and emotional support - enough to take him from someone who almost didn't graduate college and could not get a professional job, to someone who is now in grad school. That took my working full time, paying for his additional schooling and emotional support through two years of graduate school applications. His is finally able to provide financial support and he wants out. I feel so cheated. Oh yeah, and I paid for the huge wedding he wanted (I wanted to go to Florida and have a quiet ceremony with immediate family). End vent.

Bravo!!

Keep in mind that it wasn't easy for any of us. Many of us know full well the struggle you are going through.

You can do it.

Okay, well I can't just get him off the lease without contacting him to sign something.

Dang it.

Doesn't matter whether he is on the lease or not. Exclude him from the house by changing the locks, tell your landlord what happened. Put the utilities into your sole name and get his stuff into the garage or storage and then legally you will be in good shape if he tries to get back inside. The onus will be on him to prove he did not move out. Make sure you have plenty of paper evidence if you think he might show up with the police.

It really doesn't matter whether he is on the lease. My husband half owned the house!

I wouldn't trouble yourself about explaining yourself to him. If he contacts you just say his behaviour is heartbreaking and you need space. You have some decisions to make. Be minimal and don't bother reassuring him. Slap a poker face on any panic you feel.

He's had you dancing a tune the whole marriage. Stop.


Then get your evidence and make your plans.

Yes, you should expose his behavior to his family and friends.
Also, enter Plan B.
Have you read about Plan B?

Hi all,

Thank you again for the great advice and perspective. I had my appointment this am and feel better than I have in four days. I am not crazy, and setting those boundaries and trying to protect my marriage was not unreasonable... is not unreasonable. I'll not be apologizing to anyone about that. I am only reacting to the problems my husband's behavior is causing. I could do it better but that is not the core of the problem.

I do have an action plan, but I'm concerned that my husband is reading this, so I'm not posting any details right now. He registered for this site about month ago and has been on the forums. I'll be back to update later.

Thank you again.

It's wonderful to hear you sounding so strong.

We have all been there.

Also, just keep in mind that you have nothing to fear. The marriage as it stands is a dud - so you have nothing to lose even if recovery is not an option.

Your vent resonated with me. I too supported my husband professionally, personally and financially. I put all my eggs in the marriage basket. I was desperate to save it when I showed up here.

But my husband was wedded to stupidity and I got out. Just two years on I am better off financially than I have ever been - in spite of a crazy expensive divorce! I also have a relationship that is so wonderful I wondered why I settled so low for so long.

From today you are to stop pouring your energies down a drain. Either with him or without.

Gaslighting is very destructive. I'd urge you to read up on it.

Thank you indiegirl. It's good to hear how you made it through a similar story to a better end.

I am definitely going to stop pouring my energies down a drain. I deserve care and loyalty and I'm not going to settle for less.

I agree it is good to hear you sounding so much better. And you do need to Plan B away.

I do need to do plan B. I had contact today and realized I might have something akin to PTSD from it all. High anxiety, panic. Horrible feelings. I was feeling pretty good up until then.

Plus it is such a drag to talk to him. It is like talking to a brick wall. I think I did a good job of expressing my requests, and getting confirmation back. He just shuts down and when I query, he tells me he doesn't agree. I've asked him repeatedly to ask his parents about opposite sex relationships and how they handled them (they have from what I can tell a great marriage - and not a single opposite sex relationship to be seen. What friends I have seen have seemed to be other couples.)

So I wrote to his mum and told her he is essentially dating other women and thinks my requests for him to stop are controlling. I asked her to talk to him about this - I said something along the lines of 'not sure how you feel about this, but you have had a much longer successful marriage than I have.' I also told her I am trying to save this marriage but this issue is causing huge problems.

The fact that he would never talk to his folks about makes me guess he knows the answer is not going to be the one he wants.

And he's going to be pissed, but jeez guy, if you don't want people to know you are doing it, don't do it.

Got the paperwork for the lease, other appointments made and phone numbers obtained for getting help getting info. So not depending on his butt to do anything. Not depending on his butt to do anything at all, in fact.

I am so tired of this. What a frickin' downer.

Have you seen this?
How to Plan B Correctly

Yes, I have seen that.

This contact was talked about with Dr. Harley in our phone counseling.

I am not in plan B at the moment.

Update - I never apologized to that woman. Not a peep from H about it - rather surprised on that.

It was a very brass-necked and shameless request. However if you say something with enough conviction it usually works. Something that occurs to each and every wayward.

You've peeked behind the curtain of the great and powerful Oz and seen it's just a clueless and frightened man.

That is quite par for the course with waywards. They are cheats pretending to be heroes. Easy to take the wind out of their sails.

indiegirl, thank you. I spend a lot of last night and this am reading your story. What a journey!

I'm blowing my day when I need to be writing. This is my last post, before I get to work so I don't put feeling crappy for not getting my stuff done on top of the pile of crappy I already have.

Got the 'love you deeply but not interested in rekindling romantic love speech' from him last night. Should have mentioned that. And a list of every single time I did a LB. Told me he was trapped with me, and I was mean to him and insulting to his family. He especially hates me, it seems, for trying to keep others away who meet his needs, but refuses to let me do it myself. Gah.

One more planned contact coming up to celebrate finishing his qualifying test, then the next day up in the city where I've been working. It will be our four year anniversary, and is supposed to be followed by him dropping me off at the airport and then taking the car back down to the city where we live. I'm leery of all of it, but last part has my spidie sense tingling. He told me 'he was keeping his word' on the car issue. Didn't seems so concerned about keeping his word when it came to spending time together.

My thoughts are to do the best plan A I can for the evening and the celebration and send him down on the train instead of letting him driving me to airport. He'd be livid at the change of plans, but I foolishly added his name on the car title (I bought it long before meeting him) and it would seem possession is 9/10ths of the law. He can't sell it without my signature, but he could be surly about giving it back. Granted he is supposed pick me up the following week with it at a different airport.

The locks will be changed by then (for sure) and the lease agreement updated (I hope.)

The celebration is with all the school buddies he has used to replace me. The plan is for me to at least make my presence known, but to have an emergency exit if things get painful. No drinking for me that night. Need my wits.

It will be plan B after that I think for my own sanity. I have to spend $300/week on plane tickets, and spend considerable effort to be in his town weekends during the school year. It seems foolish to keep doing that.

Unfortunately all that I own is in the town that he lives in! He abandoned the apartment all of our household stuff, all the wedding gifts, all my personal stuff. It is kind of shocking he would just leave it all. I mean, most of the glassware was fancy beer steins he had to have. And fancy pots. And I like this town more than where I go to school. What a mess. My life is, literally, all over the country.

Ah yes it's a good tale! With a happy ending

Are you snooping to do a mega-exposure? I'd guess he is definitely having overnights with her and don't expect to be caught with their pants down. A PI could do that for you.

However since there's no children and he is a horrible catch you could just tell everyone he is dating other women as your exposure and go straight into Plan B.

His languauge towards you is that of someone in a full blown affair but of who has no intention of letting you go.

See he convinces himself he can date other women because you are awful. However he's told you you can stay on his hook if you work on yourself. See how that works?

Just wondering how things are going and if you have moved into Plan B?

I have not yet moved into Plan B.

I talked to the wife of a couple friend of ours and let her know what was going on. She was shocked at the treatment I've received from H, since he is 'always so nice'. She, I'm sure, told her husband, who H considers a close friend. I don't think they are on his side with how he deals with other women.

He didn't want to talk on the phone with me tonight, told me to show up two hours after he celebrates with his friends tomorrow, that he isn't on my side, and that he's embarrassed by my actions. I told him that wasn't okay. This after I told him I was deeply offended his actions with that woman. He finally did ask again about the apology and I told him that I am not going to say what was going on with him and that woman was okay, and that I'm deeply offended by their conversations.

He finally just told me not to show up tomorrow and hung up on me. Normally I'd call him back and fight/try to deal with it. Not in the mood. I still have to go back to get my stuff and pack, as well as get the locks changed.

The PI is an issue since he doesn't have a car and lives two hours away from both people I contacted (no one is this small town). That and the group living situation makes it really hard to follow him. Cars are such dead giveaways on location.

Since SH asked me about divorce compensation, I don't think there is much hope for this one. He told me that my H is 'lost inside himself' and 'I'm only going to get so far, it is like talking to a drunk'. I'm not even sure what that means, except it isn't good for having a mature relationship. At least that has been my experience.

This is a great plan

Okay, I'll be honest, I am having some difficulty telling people that my husband went on dates. Perhaps it is the brain washing, perhaps not, but I've already got some push back from that woman's family that I am blowing things all out of proportion.

In this society, lots of people seem to think that is fine and dandy.

I think a lot of people are going to come after me for saying that having coffee with a woman is a date.

Has anyone had experience with something that isn't full blow PA? Please see my previous notes about PI issues for getting that evidence. He's had passwords on his phone and computer for forever and I have no access now anyhow.

Any proof of a romantic relationship the PI brings you makes it an affair - it doesn't have to be a PA. There's also nothing wrong with telling people you disapprove of his going on dates! This makes it clear you are not sanctioning this and it makes it look a lot less innocent. When you say you are 'having trouble' are you still drafting exposures? It should be done all at once.

Exposure should also be a shock too to prevent the affairees 'getting their story straight'. I am not sure why OWs friends are contacting you to say it is too far if you are still waiting on a PI? Have they had exposure from you or is OW telling them things?

If it were me; I wouldn't apologise for objecting to my husband dating another woman! You will need confidence there. I'd feel sorry for those with such low standards. You have already highlighted very inappropriate behavior; the stupid will always fail to see what is pointed out clearly.

You could use PI evidence to later do a more public cheaterville exposure copying in the naysayers who will then just seem foolish. No need to allow any responses either. Hit and run. You could do that from within Plan B.

If your PI is a hack - get another one!

Okay, I'm going to try to make this clearer.

First off, my husband proposed we split before we ever got to this town. It was in the fall, when we were about to leave for here and his grad school. I had already paid the down payment on the apartment and flown us out to get it. The root problem we have/had was AO/DJ and terrible communications. Resentment abounding for both of us. I do more AO. He does more DJ and leaving me as punishment. This is what I wanted to work on and fix in our marriage, as well as meeting EN that were totally neglected such as FS and RA. I supported him for two years, hating it, and he hates the fact I hated it. He said "I never had any money". Who's fault is that?!?

We had done the program for a while in the winter and things were better. We were also able to spend more time together. It is pretty clear how the more time we have, the better things are. My taking this job over the summer two hours away was the stupidest thing I've done in a while.

Known Dating incident #1 - last December. I was at the Doctors, he went to coffee with a woman who brags about how much better life is after she left her husband. He told me I was way out of line when I burst into tears and asked he never do that again. I contact this woman twice directly when he refuses to stop. She finally backs off, but spreads gossip around about me that husband blames me for. I am ruining his life. (of course) We do get past this incident (I think).

He does respect my request not to climb with another women I find to be a threat.

Known Dating incident #2 - this summer, after he moves out. He tells me that he told a third woman he had moved out, against my wishes , because "she deserved to know". I kid you not. I come to find out that they have had conversations about me, and she attacked me and he did not defend me, nor told me about it. Rather, he has gone out of his way to protect her from me when I also contacted her directly, stating that what he told her was a direct violation of our confidence as man and wife. I saw a text message saying he would leave the group outing with me if I 'was a problem'. I got no such reassurance from him. In fact, he cancelled our planned hour alone together and went right to group outing. I arrive to find him talking to her. This culminated in his lying about her being at his group home for dinner a different night, and me going there on a hunch, standing outside crying while he wants to go back inside to have dinner with the lot of them. I wrote to her long distance boyfriend and six of her family members telling them of my husband and I's separation and asking for their help in influencing this woman to give us some space to work on our marriage. I did not do a full exposure. Frankly, I got scared.

Steve Harley said I did nothing wrong since my goal is to protect my marriage. H of course thinks I did, since his goal is to protect his relationship with these people.

We were supposed to go out tonight, but last night he asked that I show up two hours later so he could be with all these friends without me, because he is embarrassed by me, and we could go out with a mutual friend after that. I said that wasn't okay. I told him that I had also told a mutual (woman) friend what he had done in incidents #1 and #2 and people know how he treats me. He flips, tells me he is done and hung up on me.

I sent him a copy of our wedding vows that we said in front of 160 people and pointed out that, aside from his parents, no one in his life has shown him more care than I have. Certainly not these acquaintances he is putting above me.

That was it. Normally, I'd call back, and try to get him to change his mind. Especially since he knows we had a plan requiring his help with the car. And it is our wedding anniversary tomorrow. We were going to spend it together.

#1. I want to be treated better.
#2. I do still (sadly) want my husband back

I don't think plan B is going to work at getting him back while he has as these people at school and work taking care of him. Steve Harley called them enablers. There are too many. It will work to protect me I guess, and make a divorce less painful in the end (I saw that on your thread indie).

OK - I understand where you are at and you are right on schedule. Give the PI a few days - two should be plenty - to 'come up with the goods'. Tell him it should take no longer than that as you could do it yourself.

As I've said you don't really need PI evidence because his behaviour is so blatant but I know in your shoes I'd want to blow the lid off it and do the most shocking exposure possible.

In the meantime prepare for Plan B. You've put up with enough of this nonsense for long enough and your priority is to get yourself into a haven.

Perhaps, if really you want to, send him a 'happy anniversary' message - so as to Plan A right up to Plan B - but I would certainly go no further than that and I would make sure I was unavailable for any of these exhausting conversations you two have. Maybe tell him you are going somewhere with no cell reception for the day and turn your phone off!

No more debates, wrangling or sending him his vows. He was there. He knows right from wrong. Talking to an affairee is like talking to a drunk person.

Better to paint your nails, take a bubble bath, call the PI and get an early night.

Right. Thanks Indie.


Exposure list:
My family
His family
His school mates where this is happening
The few contacts I know for him at that workplace.

You'll find plenty of people who don't agree, and that's fine. They can't do anything to you. The point is to get the facts out there, because that will put pressure on the affair, even if some people think it is fine and dandy.

If anyone wants to debate you about it, just don't debate them. There's no rule in life that says that when someone makes a debate point you have to convince them.

The people who are listening to 'it's innocent friendship to date the OS' nonsense fall into two camps: a) naive people who will learn either i) when the affair gets more and more blatant before their eyes or ii) when they themselves are cheated on for being naive (this one was me).

The second camp, b) are evil people who allow evil to go on as they do the same stuff themselves.

So either the affair partners find themselves surrounded by either foolish or evil friends as the good and the wise desert them. If they have also protested their innocence too much, the relationship can never see the light of day without alerting the naive (see a)i )

Affairs are rocky, horrible things. With exposure they are stuck in an affair without a nice or wise person in sight offering them support.

Then if they choose to abandon the affair and recover there is the question of who their friends are once they are back in the marriage.

The betrayed spouse should be sure to exclude everyone who was not supportive during exposure. Exposure is often about compiling a useful 'know thine enemy' list.

I think an affair is an affair whether it be an EA or a PA, your spouses EN needs are being met by someone else creating his "fog".....

I'm in plan B now. I sort of screwed up exposure by posting it as a status on Facebook rather than contacting people directly. I'm going to finish that up now and go to bed early.

I need an IM.

The last straw was I went home to visit family out of state, a trip my H didn't want to talk because it would only be two days for him. Instead, my husband invited woman number 2 to go over to a couple's house that we do things with and the four of them were watching football there together. I object, via text, asking him to call. He tells me he is charging his phone, but in the meanwhile he tells me I cannot tell him who to see and that he didn't keep a secret of it (implying he did nothing wrong.) I post what is going* on in my Facebook status and tag his family.

*I posted that my husband is dating several women in his school department and will not stop. I asked people to tell him that is not an okay thing to put a wife through.

He writes back he will come and get me Thursday at the airport but after that he never wants to talk to me ever again.

Before this came to a head, I did contact the couple, both of them, letting them know what was going on. They don't want to say anything because 'it would be awkward'. I stopped reading the messages after that. They are not friends.

I will never see, talk, email or otherwise see this man unless this behavior comes to a complete stop. I already have a rental car arranged from the airport. I just need some way to get my car keys back. I need an IM.

I think his family hates me, I've already been criticized for making this public, I feel very lonely. Any support would be greatly welcomed.

I am sorry for your pain, Luna.

This is outside of my expertise, but just wanted to send you a hug anyway.

It can only get better from here, and it will. You will either be better without him or he will decide to change and you will be better with him. Just don't ever reconcile via shortcuts if that happens; stick to your guns and MB advice to do it right.

(((((luna)))))

Thank you Sunnytimes. At least I'll never have to suffer through one of his 'it's just friends' mental caca again.

One a surprising note, one of my 'poly' friends came out on my side, saying an agreement is an agreement, and if my husband doesn't keep his with me, it's cheating. Exposure is full of surprises.

Exposure done to mutual friends, family and those at school. I have it posted publicly on my page. Done. I didn't do his high school friends or other contacts he has not talked to for more than five years. Let me know if that is a mistake.

The supportive comments I've gotten have helped a lot. My husband even posted on my thread, stating he had never strayed in our marriage. I have now blocked him and made it clear to everyone that he is not welcome in my life until this behavior stops.

Luna,
Get a good start in cutting toxic friends out of your life.
The "poly" friend is the first one that should go

Luna,

You posted that you are in Plan B.
Did you write a Plan B letter and send it to your husband?
Do you have an Intermediary (IM)?

I did not write a plan B letter yet. I just reacted to what happened today - it was so far beyond the pale, it pushed me to finally act.

I don't have an IM yet. I have some one in mind and hopefully she will say yes.

If not, I will keep thinking until I find someone.

Well I am sorry that it happened but I am glad it made you act. And it does not amtter how mad he gets and it does not matter what he says.

He is/was "dating" other women if he was going out to coffee or dinner or anything that you did not approve of, nor should you approve of it.

It makes no difference what anyone is saying you know the truth and somewhere down deep so does your H but he will never admit it.

And your marriage can take him being mad, it can't take him continuing to "date" other women......

And you should stay as dark as possible to keep your sanity. Do not contact him in anyway and do not let him contact you in anyway.

Thanks SC. I have found an IM and have arranged the immediate business needs. Nothing else needs to be taken care of so I'm just trying to focus on me and what I need to do to be okay. The support has helped from others, more than I thought possible.

I guess I do need to write a plan B letter. I'm going to do that tonight and then it is dark as I can get.

It is hard to believe my marriage will survive. He refused to stop when I asked for months, I cannot see him ever giving in now. Aghh.. either way, I am better off.

I just keep telling myself that.

Post your Plan B letter here first, so experienced posters can review it before you deliver it to him.

I don't think you ever had a real marriage commitment from him to begin with.

My PBL: taken straight from a template, with some small modifications.

September 29, 2014

My Dearest H,

I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your dates with other women possible. I foolishly pursued my goals without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most and we are now both suffering for my mistake. Additionally, I have subjected you to angry outbursts and disrespectful judgements. I am so sorry.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you stop seeing and prioritizing these women over me. Living with, and seeing you under these conditions has been the most painful experience of my life, and I can no longer endure it.

Until you are willing to follow a plan of reconciliation with me, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. Our friend M has agreed to help us with any business contact we might need.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationships with these women, and I simply cannot be with you any longer knowing that you are continuing them. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently end your relationship with A, follow precautions to avoid absolutely any contact with her, agree to not have dates with any other women, and join me in a plan to restore our relationship, I will be willing to discuss our future together with you.

I hope that we will be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new lifestyle together in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never be a reason for us to be separated. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you to be my best friend.

I cared for you when we married and I continue to care for you right up to this day. But I cannot be with you or help you as long as you are in these relationships.

With all my love,

The very last message I got before cutting off contact: He told me to stop contacting his family and that he never wants to talk to me ever again.

This is normal for exposure, yes?

So long as everyone who needs to know knows, that's fine. In some ways better because he has seen it; is wondering who else has and this enhances his sense of shame.



It's cute when they think they are in charge



Don't you see your marriage and mental health is interfering with their spineless social life? How very dare you.

They have no idea you have more backbone (or that anybody does) and you will exclude them from any future marriage.

I think you did great!

The Plan B letter is perfect, too.

So normal it gets boring!

Agree with Indie, they all say the same thing. And like I said before, your marriage can handle him being mad, it cannot handle continued "dating".

Just send the Plan B letter and go dark, dark, dark and no matter which way it goes YOU will be better for it and that is all that matters really!!!!

Hang in there

Thank you indie and SC. I reread this thread over and over again for strength!

I am sure his tone will be different when he finds out you have cut contact with him.

But even if this does not end up with a recovered marriage you are now protecting yourself from his foolishness and trying to make it all seem like somehow it is your fault.

That is not good for your physical health and certainly not your mental health.

I think I handed him what he wanted on a silver platter - to get out of having a relationship with me. He is busy telling everyone (I am guessing) that I am crazy, jealous, and he just wants to have some friends and I am so controlling he can't even do that. Ugh. It is so hard. I am really unhappy with his family. Not a single one has shown any support. I paid for that huge wedding he wanted. Well, I feel like I should have just called it "super expensive party that you can come drink for free at" for all they seem interested in supporting the actual marriage. My girlfriend tells me they might be telling him the straight up, even if they won't say it to me. Grrr.

I am really mad at the OW. She so consistently went after him, even after I asked her to stay away. I have at least one phone record of her calling him, and I'm sure there were more since he is good at calling via IP to hide the phone numbers, and does mostly text anyhow. I didn't have her contact list on Sunday when I did exposure so just did our families and friends and left her out. POSOW. I have her contact list now but am not sure I want to touch that after doing the rest two days ago. There are not words to describe how much I loath her.

On a different note, I've had a string of really good news. Like, exciting, holy cow news, and it makes me miss my H even more since he is the one person I really like sharing that stuff with. My life is actually pretty stellar except for the fact that my husband wants to take some one woman on dates and defend her instead of me.

Also, I have about fifty of his friends and family on my Facebook. Even blocking him, he has any number of spies. I was thinking of just disabling the account for a while to keep the news flow in control. Or simply not posting anything. Thoughts?

Unfriend them/block or get a new account.

Since they are not showing any support for you they will never be part of your life again. Even if you recover your H will have to cut them out because they support affairs.

You shouldn't be hearing any news about him at all. Go dark; super dark.

I paid for a bunch of unsupportive people's meals too. This is why expensive weddings actually undermine the commitment you are supposed to be stressing sometimes. You live, you learn. You'll never make such a reluctant agreement again will you?

On Dday it seemed they had it all and wouldn't help me. But very quickly you see how much more 'stellar' your life is unimpeded by them. I went on to be happy and the unsupportive continued to scrabble after meaning in the gutter.

Now I truly hope they learn to be as happy as I am. The big wedding was my own idea and it wasn't their fault I was a foolish and lavish bride.

What is your good news?

My good news is my work is featured on my school's website. I found my name featured on the website by accident, after looking for the page for a professor's name spelling. Some other work I did (during the awfulness of the last few weeks!) was good enough to make the finalist at school and has some awesome benefits (yes, I am being intentionally vague).

Deleting all of his family seems so... permanent. Ouch. Really?

Should I just ignore OW? My plan B letter asks him to cut contact with her, but he probably has her in a class or two. He'd have to make a dramatic change to get her out of his life.

And being brutally honest, my ego is hurting that this seems so easy for him. I want him to miss me!

All he wants is his beard trimmer.

Is that a personal item or a household good?

Remember all that pain you've been feeling?

It doesn't go away. It's permanent. You can build a happy life but any reminder or 'trigger' will take you back to stage zero.

I am soooo happy but just my XWH's or OW's name can zip me right back.

It is as traumatic as rape. To heal you need only healing influences in your life. Aka not his family. If they ever want to grow a moral conscience in the future you can reconsider them.

Plus it's only FB! Go without and you will hardly miss it.

You can't ignore OW. Any contact at all, even sight of her car will cause you triggers and cause him to resume the A. We see that over and over and over.

NO contact - for life.

Yes, like most people he would need to make a dramatic change. Which he should have considered earlier.

Scoop all this nonsense out your life so you can focus on this AMAZING news!!! Congratulations!

As for ego; my husband walked off with foggy ease and I healed stupendously. When he showed up on the doorstep Christmas Eve I was so healed that not even my ego appreciated it and I closed the door in his face.

Ego is a reflex. It will go away.

For OW, I have a list of 400 of her friends that I didn't have two days ago. Should I email them all and tell them she is no friend to marriage? Unfortunately it is a few days after I did everyone else, and frankly I'm tired. And they have had some time to spin it.

If you feel you've exposed her to a good segment of people than your priority is to get on with healing.

Obviously, that is a personal item unless you also have a beard and you two shared use of the beard trimmer.
Otherwise it's like a man holding on to a box of tampons and claiming them as household goods, instead of personal goods.

As Indie said, if you've already exposed to her close family and friends then that is probably enough.
Many people have hundreds of "friends" who wouldn't help them change a flat tire if they were on the side of the road! Many "friends" have never met each other online!

EDIT: You can always post OW on www.cheaterville.com to cover any lose ends.

That's because he thinks you will leave the door wide open. My H only took enough clothes for a day trip because he fully expected to keep his stuff at the house and come and go like it was his own storage facility.

Uh huh. I took all his stuff to his mothers on the day I changed the locks. A storage facility works too.

Even then he would 'invent' stuff he needed from the house in the futile hope he would be allowed in.

luna,

Are you in Plan B now?
If so, how do you know that he wants the beard trimmer?

I exposed OW initially to family and boyfriend, but did not follow up with the information that she did not stay away from my H, but was actively pursuing him. I have a screen shot of a phone log of her calling and a screenshot of my H telling me he was with her as proof.

I did send both of those things to her boyfriend, along with a note that one of her conversations with my husband was about how to get him (boyfriend) to marry her. Seriously.

I am in Plan B. I sent the letter through my Matron of Honor, who agreed to be my IM. She is definitely on the side of marriage and has agree to help. He got the plan B letter yesterday about noon. It was after the communication about the beard trimmer and no contact. Everything happened so fast, I just wanted him away from me and didn't have time to draft it.

She contacted him for me to let him know that he is not to get me at the airport, or contact me in any way, and to tell him when to leave the car keys on my porch. She explicitly told him I would not be home then. That is when I got the information about the trimmer.

Things I still need to do to go fully dark:
1. Setup a new budgeting online tool. We had a join one and he is still using it. I don't need to know what he is doing.
2. Hide my calendars he has access to.
3. Separate our cell phones. Right now they are linked. Right now I am paying for it. He needs to pay his half and then split them so I don't pay his bills and I don't know what the heck he is doing.
4. Close the joint account.

The only credit card he has is co-signed by me. And I can see everything he does with it. The bank said I can close the whole mess if it is paid off. I want to wait until he makes the payment,

Do I warn him about the credit card or the phone? I am not going to close his phone - he just needs to move it.

This is truly opposite behavior for me. I get mad and pull away for 12 hours max. I don't make permanent changes separating us. It feels very scary. I sent him a letter telling him I want our marriage to work, but all of these actions are saying I am moving on.

It feels scary in advance but it feels really freeing when its done.

I don't want to be free. I want my marriage to work.

I meant freedom from the impossible task of engaging the unengaged.

No more pushing jelly uphill. All focus is on you.

Segragating your finances won't end your marriage. Plan B won't end your marriage. It is just a step back so as to allow your H to step up.

It is only the end if he does not. But you will be free of having to drag him there. Free of misery no matter what.

Okay. That makes sense.

Luna I am so sorry you are going through this and none of us can really tell you what you're H is going to do but those of us that have seen this board know that Plan B is the best thing for your sanity. My H came back after only 3 days off plan B, Indies H did not come back but I think if we had it to do over again we would do it again. At least I know I would.

Look at it this way, the marriage you have right now is miserable and no-one wants a miserable marriage. If he doesn't come back you are still better off than being in a miserable marriage. And you can learn things here to make the next relationship even better.

If he does come back this marriage will be much stronger because you stood your ground and did not let him walk all over you.

No matter what you need to worry about you!

I'm sure my husband is not coming back. My letter asks him to cut off his relationship with that woman and he's told me to his face that the next year of knowing her is longer than he wants to know me.

Being afraid of him leaving just opened the door for him to treat me any way he wanted because he could always come back. What a huge mistake. I wish I'd had more courage back then, maybe I wouldn't be here now.

This is true for sure and the reason we all have been telling you to plan B, if he knows that now he can't come back without changes you just don't know what will happen.

And trust me now that you have exposed no matter what people say they are talking about them behind their back and it will get ugly in their little world.

Ohhhh.. Be prepared for all eventualities!

My husband was so hostile, said he never wanted to speak to me again, that my exposure proved I was a "psycho".. When I sent him Plan A texts, I would just get either silence or a curt "don't contact me please".

I don't know what his reaction to Plan B was, because I had a super duper MBer as my intermediary who didn't give me any info at all.

However when I've done it for very similarly hostile husbands they are outraged that they no longer have access to "my wife" - days after telling her they would never speak to her again.

I was not prepared for him to try and break Plan B over and over again. We had no kids; no reason for contact at all.

Luckily people here prepared me and I sealed up the Plan B castle like someone expecting a burglar. He tried every door and window.

I was not prepared to see him show up on my doorstep on Christmas Eve after the divorce saying he cared about me. Oh he was still foggy and prob in his affair still but there had been 'developments' in his attitude I would say.

I got bored of Plan B and went to Plan D in less than 8 months. I just forgot why I wanted him. If you give it the full 2 years I think there's a high chance you will see a recovery, though its not always the case.

A woman in my exact position; a cheating hostile husband and no kids wrote to Dr H about her husband moving overseas 'to get away from her' and would her Plan B ever lead to recovery.

Dr H was "quite sure" he would be back but told the woman she could have a better life, much sooner by cutting him lose. He said: "All marriages can be recoverd - but not all of them should be".

He said "If she were my daughter I would be saying to her; "Forget the marriage, what's good for YOU right now?"

The known liar told you?

Stick around! You will learn to never take the word of a wayward!

I made a thread up on their most common lies and I'm sure I included "I hate you"

It's just a power trick.

Yes, be prepared for being called a psycho by your husband.
Almost everyone who exposes is called a "psycho" and "sick" and "hateful and vengeful" during and after exposure.

However, those who left their affairs and committed to a program of recovery have posted here that they were later thankful for exposure

Wow, you guys make me laugh - in a good way. It is nice to be predictable, or at least to be in a predictable situation.

Four days into plan B and I was singing the whole way home from the airport in my rental car, instead of sitting in the passenger seat, enduring some sort of anger/upset from H. It might be temporary, but I feel so good! Better than I have in... gosh, a long time.

I think about that POSOW and its sort of like, you can have him, I don't want him! (Him choosing her over me just makes me laugh now, if only for the fact she is an untrustable person, if not for all the other negatives I can think of).

Okay, I'm smart enough to know I'll get sad again. But I'm taking the feel good right now.

Tomorrow is the separation of the phones and new budget software for me. I will see nothing of his crap after that... (well CC, but that is scheduled to be closed in two weeks.) Also leaving the papers to remove him from the lease on the porch for him to sign, along with the rest of his personal items that are in the apartment.

I will NOT be home when he comes by.

Luna I am soooooo proud of you, you are doing great

I'm glad you understand the roller coaster. I feel like such a buzzkiller when I say 'Yes Plan B is making you feel good..TODAY'. There is a down swing every time but each downswing is littler than the last.

Two weeks till you can go truly dark? No sir. What can you do to make sure you get no information about this account from Plan B implementation until it is closed? Be creative.

What other means might he try to reach you? What accidental information might you glean? Who might blab gossip to you and ruin your nice quiet seclusion?

The harder you work and more effectively you plan to shut out light on his life/crazyness the less down days you will have.

Listen to this, she knows what she is talking about, the darker you are the better it is for you. Be pitch black!!!

Working on it today. I got a call from the credit card checking on some activity and they told me their called my husband first. I was so frustrated at that.

Had a cry after getting home and finding the lease paperwork signed without an argument.

My Dad wrote to me and told me he didn't want to contact H: "We are afraid that whatever we could do just might make the situation worse. He'd believe we are on your side whatever we'd do or say. We sure weren't much help to DS and DIL before their split and probably made it more acrimonious.

It's not a good sign that H is doing something that bothers you so much, and does it anyway. Even if it's totally innocent, It isn't love and isn't normal for a happily married couple.

We love you and hope it somehow works out okay."

I wrote back saying if they aren't comfortable contacting him, I understand, but I was asking for help and it would be good for him to see what other people think. I included his email and phone number.

Perhaps that is not the right thing to do.

I am just so mad and hurt he chose that stupid (literally, I could run circles around her), moral-less skank over me.

Yes, I did get some accidental information from someone I'm not going to talk to about it anymore. The info I got is "H is seriously thinking about divorce". Uhm, what? I have the papers right here - shouldn't the thinking have happened before then? It also told me that despite the exposure, he is not just letting go.

I'm just going to go with planned cries, not beat myself up about unplanned ones and moving on. This mess could not have come at a better time in my life in some ways, coping wise. I'm at the top of my game in a field I've wanted to get into for years and years and have supportive people 1000 miles away where I am free to spend all my time if I want.

If he wants me, he can take the rest of the school year off from those people, come down with me and come back next year when she and the rest have flunked their qualifiers and are gone.

You're doing great; especially with your Dad. Unfortunately lots of people believe love is some sort of magic elixir that does not require work or support from others. They don't know how to fix it. Your example of not taking any crap will be eye opening to people around you.

Overall I think your attitude rocks and you will do amazing.

Thanks. I cannot state enough how disappointed I am in his entire family. Not one person reached out to me. I am not asking anyone to take sides, except 'ours' as a couple, but they have been nonexistent. I took it seriously when our officiant said the family and friends around us were there to support our marriage.

I just realized I could have contacted every single graduate student TA at his school since all the emails are posted on the website. I only hit three, because that is what I could find on Facebook. Dang it. Every single one of your colleagues getting it, instead of just a few would have been much better - and much more shaming - for both of them.

I'm pretty livid because I did most of the ordering on Amazon, on his account that we decided to make 'joint'. He just went and changed access on it - I literally ordered 99% of the stuff we got from there - without telling me. Games, games, games.

Today has been terrible. I tried to get some stuff done, but being in this house is torture.

I just read Dr. Harley's article on Plan A and Plan B. I feel like I didn't do plan A enough and now have made a mistake with Plan B. Out of sight, out of mind, with a little aggravation thrown in for the exposure.

Yes, I am all over the place.

Can anyone send me links to threads where this did work?

You did not make a mistake by entering Plan B.
The posters would not advise you to enter Plan B unless you should have.

I imagine that being in your marital home is torture.
Do you have a friend or relative you can stay with for a while?
Or invite a friend over to stay with you?

I have to be in school (1000 miles away) during the week but don't know how I'm going to manage this place not being here. I'm going to come back about once every three or four weekends I think. I thought it would be okay, but so far this weekend it has not really been.

I was anxious about him coming in while I was gone, so took care of that, now I'm anxious about the lack of connection. Can't win.

I've been pushing to separate our stuff. I'm going to stop doing that. It sucks me in. I get obsessed. It pushes my control buttons. It pushes my anxiety buttons. I need to just think about something else for a while.

And I have some fantastic opportunities going on so really should not be wasting my energy worrying about some of this.

I'll get a temporary forwarding on the mail.
I'll tell the landlords, so they can look in on it.

I just hate being left with ALL of our stuff. Complete rejection of the entire marriage. Is that normal?

Yes, very normal.
My ex wife left her marriage and family (3 kids) to pursue her affair.

How long are you in school for?

You know I never really realised how mismatched my views on marriage were with other people's view of marriage until exposure.

When my husband asked me to marry him I thought he meant for better or worse, not 'let's have a party and stick near each other until I get bored'.

It's an important thing to discover about the world though. You will hear it more in people's conversations. Even those people who value the respectability and prestige of marriage don't fully sign up to it.



No biggie. As far as he knows, you did!



It's just the roller coaster, you were expecting this! You need to do something nice for yourself daily.

I'm still in the same house and though not ideal it is not impossible. No contact is the main thing. Redecorating helps.

Amazon is one of those things you need to be excluding. Think. What else is joint; where else do you have accounts together? Close and separate every point of contact.

Make sure he isn't spending your money!



Plan A is really more for men. Women give their heart entirely to the lover whereas men compartmentalise the women into two worlds. Any sign you were willing to let him cake eat would have been a grave mistake.

Plan A is also about behaving like a no-nonsense rockstar. It isn't about being a wuss. You have shown plenty of care, plenty of self-respect with your exposures and cool composure. You did great! No it is time to heal.

Sexymamabear and Herpapabear are a post Plan B success story, (she did a long Plan B and he became a respected veteran poster here) but honestly I wouldn't suggest delving into those tales.

Live like you know you are going to divorce.

JK - my school is for one more quarter - or up to six more if I choose. I was going to choose the shorter option to be back home with H, but right now I might just stay there as long as I am in plan B. It gives me something productive to do that I love while around supportive people.


Ouch. So sorry to hear that. I cannot believe what some people do. The fog really is like insanity, isn't it?

Indie - this has been a real awakening on people's views on marriage. My thoughts are we can spend as much on counseling as we did for the ceremony and then I think it's fair to quit.

You are right about the something nice daily. I was sleep deprived and had faulty thinking = "I can only take a break if I am hanging around H". Wrong. I gave myself the day off and feel much better now after sleeping in quite late.

It is hard to reconcile that I let bad stuff go on for a long time, so expecting any sort of change in a short amount of time is probably not realistic, if ever. Hanging in there.

I have a question. The last time my husband I split for a significant amount of time (we were dating), I coped by eventually starting to date someone else. He came back around when he found that out (and lots of coaxing from me about hanging out as friends).

I feel like there is a fundamental difference between that as daters and Plan B for a marriage, but at the same time I am really lonely. What is the proper approach? Get some anti-depressants and tough it out? If I date someone else, I feel like I would be doing exactly what I told him was not okay. And it would feel really skeevy, to be honest.

My heart tells me the answer is to fill my time with girlfriends and things I like to do and try to be patient.

Do I set a personal time limit for plan B and stick with it and try not to think about it and just concentrate on myself?

H has been prompt and compliant about my requests for getting off the lease and paying off the credit card on the joint account so I can close it. I'm not sure if that means anything at all. At this point silence is probably better than getting the request to sign the decree.

Luna,

Separated while married is still married.
It is wrong to date others while married.

Besides, if you did date while separated you would only be picking up adulterers and similar low life scum.
Most reputable single men will NOT date a woman separated from her husband.

That is what I thought. Thanks JK

Believe me you have to make a very active decision not to. You will be far more beseiged with offers than any eligible single woman.

There is something about a wounded woman whch brings out every vulture in sight. As JK says, none of them are worth your time.

Besides which ; dating is stressful. Oh it is fun if you are eligible, healed, strong and can take on the battle of the dating ground.

While I am sure you would welcome some needs meeting; there's no way you are ready for the hard headed decisions and knocks that accompany true dating.

True dating is also a hunt for a spouse. You already have one! No man worth having is going to settle for being someone's interlude either.

For now put all your focus upon you. It is actually a wonderful experience when you do this well. Surround yourself with friends. Do something fun every weekend.

It is important to realise how vulnerable you are in Plan B though because NO ONE meets your needs. I made sure I only had female friends because as we all know by studying the lovebank; male friends are lovers in waiting.

Are you active in a house of worship? My church's women's group has so much nourishing, fun stuff going on that sometimes I have a really hard time balancing it with spending time with my sweetie. I have such good relationships with the women there and it sets the example of what a relationship of equals, of mutual care and respect, feels like so I can apply it to romantic relationships.

And outside of that I have a solid group of girlfriends. The same thing, gives you experience of what a relationship of mutual care and respect feels like, so it creates a big contrast effect with your H, helps you raise and keep the bar high. Because the biggest danger you face is taking him back too soon, before the changes stick.

Thanks for the suggestions and info Indie and New. It is good to know.

My Dad wrote to him in a really gentle way, telling him he hopes we can work it out and got back 'little hope for us as couple.' From this board, I know that means not much, especially since he is still pissed from exposure.

I had a thought: My H could take two quarters off school and come down to mine and take classes there. It is a better school, and would look good on his resume. There is a beautiful new gym and a climbing wall, which he loves. Of course, he'd have to leave A behind, and all the other enablers.

The question is: Should I make this offer clear? I know the knee jerk reaction will be no, but is there harm in planting the thought this is possible? We would be down here together every day, and could really work on our marriage.

Luna,

This is an offer you can make him AFTER he ends his affair.
Since you are in Plan B, you should have no communication with him

This would have been through the IM.

I am not communicating with him.

I am really trusting that you guys are right.

They do know what they are talking about. I hope things are going well in your world and you are keeping yourself busy and taken care of.

Take a long hot bath and read a book.

No, dont make offers through the IM

Listen to the radio show daily. You will hear Dr H over and over again tell women to step back and let their husbands figure this stuff out. He will tell men to woo their wives and make offers and paint pictures - because we women like this and find it affectionate and affirms a sense of caring.

Men don't. If a man realises there is something he wants he will know how to go about getting it. The Plan B letter is enough of a roadmap. Too much input is patronising and nagging but more importantly it takes away focus from you and your life.

Your job is firstly to take care of you: to make your life amazing. That way he will either want to join it or it will be so great that you won't care at that point.

Not to mention you will make your IM's job untenable if you ask her to do this kind of thing. If you read the IM training thread her entire role is to BLOCK communication; not generate it.

She can't do both.

Thank you for the feedback and input. It has been nine days of NC. That is a record, since before our marriage when we broke up once. I can't believe it has been that long already. IM messages sent during that time (bills) but it has been a few days on that too. I have an outstanding (small) bill and might just suck it up rather than have to communicate anything again.

Got some sleep medication (finally) and meds to make things easier. I never would have thought to do that without the advice of Dr.H.

Things, besides the obvious, are going really well. I got complimented today on the script they are shooting of mine and could actually detect the head guy really wanting me to hear it. Wow, it was a Sally Field moment for me if there ever was one. It feels much different at school than last year - I'm a slow burner, and I've proven myself now and things are starting to pickup in a fabulous way. (If you know the rabbit and the tortoise story, I'm the tortoise... it helps me to know that when I feel discounted... time will change it!).

Thanks again. I'll listen to the show more now. The last week or so has just been about surviving. Was in three cities and had a lot of changes to deal with in addition to, again, the obvious.

You're doing great

Could someone please post some of the clips on Dr. H telling women to take a step back and let the man figure it out? Thanks.

Well everyone, the dreaded is probably going to happen this weekend. The last thing my husband and still share is our phone service and I checked to see who he called and it was the county court house where he filed divorce papers. Bad, I know. (It is also about the only phone number he hasn't blocked me from seeing so I'm guessing he wants me to know.) From looking up the rules, I think he'd called to get papers served to me since I wouldn't voluntarily sign the receipt form that needs to be notarized.

This is NOT what I wanted. I feel exposure was the final straw and my husband hates me and it will never change. I don't know what I could have done better - ignore his behavior and try to fill his love bank? I really think if I hadn't been gone so much, we would have had a chance.

I was just starting to feel better after a horrible morning. I am having high anxiety about this.

You guys told me to tell everyone, and it feels like it has turned into exactly what I don't want. I have lots of friends and family on my side, but what I really wanted was my husband.

Luna,

I dont think your husband was ever committed to your marriage.
He has his choice: to pursue his independent lifestyle or show care to his wife.
So far he is choosing his independent lifestyle.
Don't let his choices affect your welfare. Take this time to try to focus on yourself.

I just wish it had not gotten so acrimonious. All my stuff is there and I really don't need the upset of dealing with this right now... I just wanted a quiet weekend to do yoga, deal with the starter for my car and get more clothes packed for school so I wouldn't have to keep making those trips.

If I go back there and face this, I will be a town without a friend in sight, dealing with the worse thing that has ever happened to me. I am just filled with dread.

Luna,

You dont need to go there and deal with a phone number you saw on a phone bill.

Listen, please:

Focus on one thing at a time.
Make a list: Yoga..what time and date
Starter...how much will it cost..when will it be done (time and date)
Clothes...Use a checklist for clothes. I get mine off the internet for my kids and then see what you need

What I'm saying is, if I fly back there, I will spend the whole weekend anxious and afraid of when someone is going to pop out and surprise me.

Most of my possessions are there. I have a few changes of clothes, one book and my computer here.

I could stay here and buy more clothes down the road, and just chill for a while.

I feel really fragile right now and have a ton of things I need to do. I feel like a coward, but I cannot handle the thought of being there alone waiting for the ax to fall.

Luna,

You are in college.
You can buy clothes at a local second hand store.
You dont need to fly 1000 miles to get your clothes

Take ONE DAY AT A TIME

You arent being a coward; in fact you aren't taking your pain seriously enough.

People have told Dr H betrayal has hurt more than rape and child bereavement. Would you go to the place your rapist had raped you? Of course not. Just buy new clothes!

Why is he blocking you? Why are you looking up info on who he is calling?

Plan B is about shutting HIM out and making sure you have no information on him. Of course you are in a tailspin after seeing that be called the courthouse.

Stop doing this to yourself and let a lawyer handle this.

Luna please listen to Indie and even if that is what happens as we have told you what kind of a marriage did you have anyway?

It was a pretty bad one. I'm ready to be done. I've got too many good things going on, and to have the third major negative event in a week is just too much.

I'm working on getting the papers done quickly and efficiently. I'm not willing to sacrifice my stuff this quarter to get it done though (enough of that for him) so he'll either have to work with me, or I'll get a lawyer and it will be not good.

I've already been advised to get a lawyer to protect myself from some of his other stuff I didn't even mention here.

This has not been a good way to live.

Luna can you hit notify and ask the mods to move your thread to SAA? I think you'd get more support.

It's totally normal to be filled with such disgust and depression after such a long Plan A; this has been your first chance to think!

My advice?

* Give it time - you're not even fully dark yet
* Get dark, as of yesterday
* Don't make emotional decisions
* Never, ever, ever plan to have a wayward 'work with' you

You can't rely on the man to be faithful; you can't rely on him not to totally screw you legally. That's a given.

Yes it's not very amicable. So what? Be proud of that. You wouldn't be separating from the man if he were reasonable and reliable, you'd be working on your marriage.

Forget everything you've heard from Hollywood about the glorifying of amicable splits. I would be embarassed tohave had one of those. People who split up from their reasonable, friendly spouses are either lazy or wayward.

Luna,
I am sorry, but you will be better off no matter what happens. I know that it doesn't seem that way right now but you are looking at the good you have going on in your life so keep concentrating on that.

I suppose it would be an emotional decision. I can feel the anger emanating over the exposure and the request to get him off the lease. I just don't want to deal with it anymore. He has been angry at me for some long, and so hateful. I just need get away from it.

I got together with a friend last week and she told me today that I looked "tired, thin and very haggard" when we got together. I looked a little happier by the end of our visit. No wonder she was so inviting for me that weekend - I looked like a wreck. This really is affecting my health.

GO DARK

We want to hear about YOU and your life, not some silly man - ho

When will you be going dark?

By the by, a weekend with a friend would be excellent Plan Bing.

I'm going dark tomorrow. I just spend the most exhausting day trying to get him to recall service on the divorce so we can do it in December when I'll be there on a weekday to deal with the court!! I'd give him the terms he wanted (fair enough), just wanted him to not have my name changed (too much hassle for me). Nope, no go. It was like dealing with a brick wall/parrot "That would cause me too much stress". I offered suggestions on ways to relieve that (we come to an agreement, send it to others for accountability, etc.) Nope, he wanted me to TRUST that he wouldn't go for a summary judgement. Yeah, right I'm supposed to TRUST you, the one that got up in front of all our friends and family and pledged our life together, and you decided three years later you'd rather be single. "I don't like your insults". My WHAT?? My accurate description of your behavior?!?

So now I'm going to have to get a lawyer. I'm also going to ask for the counseling fees as joint debt, which it was something I was willing to let go if we could avoid the lawyer fees.

Brick f'ing wall. This is normally a smart man... or at least I thought so.

I think the stress of exposure really hit hard. Really hard. He sounded like a little boy.

Dark, dark, dark. No more crazy. No more crazy PLEASE!

Yes, I broke plan B. It was painful, and also not. Once this time line is settled, it's back on. Don't need this.

Luna,

Don't discuss or negotiate divorce with him.
Obtain an attorney to do this for you.

Do you have a good IM?

I have a good IM but did this myself.

Perhaps I got cocky and though I could deal with this, but he did seem to want to stretch out the conversation and took way too much of my time today. Hmm, a clue.

I did get the names of some recommended divorce attorney's in his town/state where this is all happening. The form he filled out is technically not valid for us and he lied about our assets to push the easiest, cheapest divorce option possible. If I bring in an attorney, this will have to be dealt with.

He is in an uber rush to get this done. Someone suggested it is because he has a girlfriend who won't sleep with him until he's divorced. Probably that woman I was pissed about.

So he has fire under his behind to be single. "It was really stressing him out to not have forward progress on this."

So. Plan B is a plan designed to protect you from the mental abuse of a man who gives not a hoot about you or what you want.

And you decided to make a day of it indulging in that abuse. It sounds like you genuinely expected him to say something like he doesn't want to screw up your life and finances, when of course he does. His own too! He is a WAYWARD.

All he wants is to date other women while fighting you,his evil wife. You keep on giving him that perfect justification on a plate.

We told you he wasn't going to give you an amicable divorce because there IS NO SUCH THING.



Your attitude just beggars belief Luna. This man has put you through hell and you are trying to chat to him as though he is not your enemy here and as though he has any kind of interest in your wellbeing.




I actually agree with him here. I mean make up your mind. Either you are trusting friends who can hash this out amicably (which of course you're not) or you lawyer up. Don't get all shocked that he expects trust when you are trying to be buds. Also, it is insulting to keep on at him about his behaviour at this stage. If it really bothered you, you wouldn't be talking to him! You see where I'm going? Talking to him just undermines your entire argument.

Are you for real when you say you are trying to avoid lawyer fees? This is like trying to fight crime without paying the pesky wages cops require. Try telling a criminal who has trashed your home that neither of you will have to pay taxes for cops if he would just behave himself.

Let me break it down for you. It's going to cost you an absolute fortune. Partially because no one ever has money put aside for this, partially because of the nature of waywards.

Waywards like to obstruct divorces and drag their feet. They like to make it far more expensive than it needs to be so they can fight with you. Every time you call him up and fight you will be rewarding this technique.

They also have simply forgotten to factor in reality while chasing skirt. The reality that financially they are worse off without you. So any informal agreements between you about what is fair will swiftly be reneged upon as he starts to snatch at whatever he can get.

So think of the very highest number you would be willing to pay a lawyer. Now quadruple it.

Then pay it. Because even if you do, like most people, get heavily into debt; you will still be better off. The lawyer will save more than they take and you can always earn more money. You can't undo the toll contact will take on your health.

Let us know if you are interested in doing this right.

Look back at your thread. You were really proud of going nine days NC and you were not planning on any contact. You and I both know you would rather fight with him than let go. He knows too, now. Let's undo that.

Nine days is actually a lot harder than ninety days. You were right to be proud but its not all you can do. You can go much further than that.

It is like withdrawal from a drug. Your mind starts to invent reasons for contact. This time you had a bad trip and are saying 'never again' but you need to stick to it.

Every contact resets the withdrawal clock back to day one. So you have a bad few weeks ahead. However after three or four weeks it will get easier.

Indie,

Some of your advice is spot on, and thank you for that, but I am frustrated that you do not seem to read other parts of what I write. My husband wants a divorce, yesterday. This desire came before even coming to this place and these women.

The terms he put are fair - and he filed. My objection is my name, and that the current terms could be more clearly spelled out. The conflict yesterday is that he paid someone to serve me, forcing me to deal with this divorce when I am really busy with other things and out of town.

Our main source of conflict is that *I* didn't want to give him a divorce, but work on our marriage. In the state he's in, I can't stop the divorce. I put him off for a few months, but that is when the emotional affair action started and I couldn't maintain my cool while he was provoking me/betraying me with these women. Hence plan B.

I've given up on the marriage, because I don't see anyway to fix it, certainly not with the ticking time clock of the state being so short. He might come to his sense in a few years, but I can't wait or hold out for that.

My primary goal was to protect my current quarter at school.

I can get a lawyer to look over the filing, perhaps spell somethings out more clearly, but I am not going to change the bulk of it. The settlement is fair, with the exception that the money he has was an investment from me expecting that someday he would work and I would be able to stay home. That is not something you can get in a settlement, at least not with as short a marriage as ours. Frankly, I am happy he is self-sufficient now and not asking for support.

*I* am the one dragging my feet. I am the one making it difficult for him to get his freedom. He gave up everything to get it, except his small retirement account. Does that make me a wayward?

It is important that we use words according to their meaning.
Do you think you meet the definition of wayward below for trying to save your marriage?


adjective
1.
turned or turning away from what is right or proper; willful; disobedient:
a wayward son; wayward behavior.
2.
swayed or prompted by caprice; capricious:
a wayward impulse; to be wayward in one's affections.
3.
turning or changing irregularly; irregular:

Its not that I didn't read it, I just don't really see the relevance of his wanting a divorce real bad; that is just so fantastically common in Plan C. It's true your husband wants a single life above all else but you're forgetting he is wayward and like every other wayward. He didn't divorce first and then get a single life; on some level he wants you on a back burner, if not now then it is likely he will once you get serious.

I'm not even talking about was HAS happened. I'm talking about what to expect. Once you go dark and stay dark he will throw all sorts of tricks into effect. Just because he has been gung-ho about getting a divorce up to this point you think it will stay that way?

Perhaps it will stay that way but I don't see any cause gfor certainty. You seem to make contact with him, take his words and actions seriously and sincerely and I just don't get why. He once stood up and made vows he was not consistent with.

You need to expect the unexpected more. Stop taking your lead from him. This thread is just descriptions of you reeling from whatever he says or does.


As to you not being sure about divorce that is perfectly natural. You are not the one who created this situation and like every person who is betrayed you don't turn it off like a tap.

It is not even remotely comparable to the situation where someone remains in affairs but will not comply with the divorce either.

Exactly!

Luna,

Once again indie is correct. Please please please listen to her and go pitch black and just stay that way. Do not discuss anything with him.

As she said he is wayward and was when he asked you for a divorce so you can not go by anything the man says...........

Alright, alright. I'll call the lawyers, pick one and get myself protected. No more talking to wayward.

Utterly frustrating to have my whole life torn apart like this. No, I certainly did not pick this.

I can see your point about him wanting me on the back burner: it was when I took him off the lease, moved to close the joint account and stop our shared phone plan that he started upping the behavior. I removed the back door back into our relationship.

luna,

I really dont think he was ever committed to marriage.
Have you always financially supported him?
It sounds like you are more of a sugar momma than a wife to him

Have you listened to the clips in here?
BSs Plan C is not a plan

Right. I looked at that post.

Honestly, I don't want my marriage anymore. Even if I 'win' this, I will only get a H that will manipulate me again in the future through threats of abandonment, hurtful statements or other forms of control. It has been a long, long time since felt a respected partner in this, but since he was so affectionate and loving otherwise, I stayed and tried to squeeze in my needs.

If I thought we could ever get true POJA, I would want a real plan.

As I said, he is forcing the divorce, so let's just get it over with...

He can always find me later if he ever grows up. (And if I still give a rats behind.)

JK -I supported him for the first two years of the marriage. He has never supported me, not entirely. This past year he paid half the bills.

How old are you?

I'm contacting the lawyer, getting my response together and then letting the rest go. He can complete it, if he wants, once I get the conditions listed more specifically and I am protected.

I'm going clothes shopping next weekend and am really looking forward to a calm time and some opportunity to get my work done. This is going to be the first quarter I can spend 100% time on myself and my work. I'm a little irritated I lost this first week but it will get better.

Dark plan B.

You'll be surprised at how much better you actually feel after a week of no contact and from then on it just gets better and better.
You will have up and down days and sometimes you just need to force yourself to take it 'one day at a time" but you will feel much better overall.

I hope so.

I just wish I could concentrate better. It is so frustrating. That is the biggest unexpected cost of this relationship ending. Even when it was bad (except for the very end when it was utterly horrible), I could still think and be productive and enjoy my work. Scratch that, even when it was horrible I still wrote a piece that is being produced. Now that it has ended, it is much more of a struggle. I don't get it.

Hopefully this, too, will change in a few weeks. I need my old me back.

This man has been an absolute succubus on your energy. I guarantee he planned on remaining so after any divorce.

Cutting him loose hurts initially a whole lot. I remember comparing it to losing a limb, except I had to do the cutting!

Imagine my surprise when the limb grew back. It won't take long for you to see some benefit.

This man has been an absolute bloodsucker on your energy. I guarantee he planned on remaining so after any divorce.

Cutting him loose hurts initially a whole lot. I remember comparing it to losing a limb, except I had to do the cutting!

Imagine my surprise when the limb grew back. It won't take long for you to see some benefit.

Can I just say that it is perfectly obvious to me that you are no ordinary person and have a great life waiting for you.

He's basked in your reflected glory for free long enough. Every moment you give him is unearned attention for him.

I will be so annoyed if you don't see how much potential you are wasting by sifting around the wreckage of a house fire instead of striding briskly off towards bigger and better.

Ugh, how would he do that? By having me desperately hang around? No way. I don't really think he thought he'd be cut off from the apartment. I am purging and keep finding stuff of his.

Wow, thank you. He did admit to like to telling people about me (which always made me think 'then why don't you act like you LIKE me more?').

I'm not wasting any more time. I keep seeing stories about people dying at my age or younger and life is short. I'm not going to waste mine moping about this guy.

I hope you are doing ok. I had a similar experience. My husband used the same "lines" to validate his actions. He played mind games and I drove myself nuts. I became a suspicious paranoid [censored], which was so unlike my personality. Well, now I'm in plan B and haven't spoken to him in a year. I think back about everything and regret all the snooping, investigating, going through his pockets, etc, etc. It all means NOTHING because we know what we know. Our GUT is our evidence. You know something is not right and you know he is "off track". That is all you need to know. He is a selfish [censored] and probably always was. It wasn't noticeable bec you were probably meeting his needs. As soon as the [censored] felt you weren't meeting all his needs, he said bye bye. Stop crying over him and get mad. His family needs to know how selfish and horrible he is. End of story.

So this is an issue in my marriage. My husband was unemployed/marginally employed and a stay-at-home dad for most of our marriage. Now that he has had an affair I am HUGELY resentful of it. I always thought it didn't matter that much, etc. But honestly, I want to have my financial needs met. I would LOVE to be a stay-at-home mom or only work on a consulting basis.

I have been very successful in my career and reached a high position at a young age, but honestly (and I know that this isn't very feminist of me) I DO want to be taken care of. One of the struggles that I have in considering reconciliation is that we'd have to move and he'd have to give up his job...which makes me feel like we are starting back at square one.

Wenang, I don't think his family cares enough to do anything about it. He is too lovable and their darling.

PigletWiglet, I hear you so much. He was JUST starting to make enough money to support me - and when I told him I didn't want to work anymore, it was a problem. He was hugely resentful of doing *all* the house work, but I wanted to come home and spend time together, not do laundry. Perhaps we should have brainstormed another idea while I was the breadwinner. We did our own stuff more the past year and that seems to work better.

That is one the things that frustrates me - a lot of the conflicts we had in the past had been resolved.

I will never support another man for as long as I live.

Luna alpha this is exactly the same as with me. My H is the eldest son and worshipped as a God...no kidding. I totally get it. That being said, I still told them about their son and the horrendous and selfish decisions he made. Maybe it sunk in a little, maybe not. I told his family, his friends, his co-workers. No one will look at him the same way again.

By the way Luna Alpha....he doesn't hate you, he hates himself. He knows you are better than him, that you are more responsible, and he doesn't measure up. I wish these men would get kicked in the you know where LOL

Yeah, I will admit I was glad I was brave enough to tell his family, grandmother and all. Even if they love and support him, the truth is still a small nugget out there in the Universe.

Made it through H's B day without a doing a thing on my part... no 'peanut butter pie', if you get the movie reference. It felt wrong-ish, but following the plan.

If you have a big day coming up or you feel you might break the plan, let us know in advance so we can support you through it.

I always turned a rough day into a festival of Indie - Plan B is only as much fun as you make it.

Well, Indie, at the risk of incurring the ire of people on this board, I am having a hard time with the whole thing.

As I've seen other people post to not make decisions in haste, I too am going back and forth. The problem is I still love my H and part of me wants him back. The other part wants to be free to try with someone new. I think that is normal. But I have to stand up for myself, even wanting my H back, or it will just get worse and worse. I never thought I'd see the day when he'd take another woman's side against me, and that has happened now twice. His words tell me that I'm impinging his rights to IB, which I am, because his IB is hurting me!

What I'm really mad at myself was for breaking plan B before. I feel like I gave away all the power I had finally won. I was so scared (that bad word) that I agreed to the divorce if he would just wait three months and not serve me immediately. I feel played, and that now he can tell everyone I've agreed to the divorce and he can take his wedding ring off and do whatever he pleases.

I should have hired that PI no matter what the cost until evidence was found and posted the person on cheaterville. Other readers, do exactly what they tell you here, or you'll have regrets like I do.

My copy of SAA came, so I can read that.

Now comes the big question of what to do with my life in plan B.

I'm not keeping the apartment in his town. It's too painful being there, and he failed his qualifiers and if he continues with the same people he is insisting on now, he will never pass them. So he won't be there in a year or two anyhow... school is over for him.

But enough about him.

So I can
A. Put my stuff in storage, and keep renting the room I'm in now. Now much room, but cheap, not a lot of distraction with nesting and all the painful marriage stuff is away from me until I can better deal with it. But no kitchen, not a lot of space.
B. Find an apartment in my school city. Expensive, more comfortable, but setting up a place is a lot of work and I'm afraid it would take away from what I'm trying to accomplish right now. Also not sure how long I'll be here. Eight more months for sure, possibly another year after that.

Also, I got an invite to interview for an exclusive writing group workshop where I worked this summer. If I move there after school, I'll have that group and the playwriting group I really like.

Or I can stay in my school state and try to get a TV writing gig that I thought was never going to happen because it would be bad for my marriage (Too long of hours).

Honestly, I could move anywhere in the country and there are lots of great options. It is terrifying.

PigletWiglet,

Upon rereading your post, if you moved your husband wouldn't be exactly starting over again since he'd have the experience from his current job on his resume. He could even starting looking now, while he's employed. If you need him to work, then he needs to work.

And maybe you could think of it as an opportunity to move to a place you like better than your current environment - and one that has opportunities for your husband's line of work.

In Plan B you do whatever is best for you. All I would say is that the early months are both expensive and tiring, so look more for conditions which will nurture you as opposed to exhaust you.

Don't let opportunities slide but don't bite off more than you can chew either.

The rollercoaster of emotions is totally normal. Don't worry that you broke your plan, you have lots of time to make up for it and go strictly dark.

Thanks Indie,

I'm going to follow that advice to the letter, the least exhausting the better. More energy for opportunities.

And thanks for the reassurance of plenty of time to go dark. It's not the end of the world. I went back and reread the letter I wrote to his mother asking for help on this issue before exposure broke. It was well done, and I think was fair and sincere on the issue. If nothing else, it is clear I was trying to deal with a very painful issue.

Holding my head up and marching on...

After four years of making joint decisions on everything, it feels very off to be deciding everything on my own. Like there is someone I should be calling and talking to about them...

You can always ask wise peers for advice

JK - I do have dinner plans with a girlfriend to discuss some options this weekend. It is helping to know that is coming. My school roommate has also been fantastically supportive, but I don't want to impose too much on the people around me. Trying to find a good balance.

I had some shocking news from the doctor that my fasting blood sugar is a little high. My hope is that this is not some serious medical problem I am now dealing with from all the stress of the past year, but especially the past two months.

I've had this test before multiple times and it has always been normal, much more in the middle range.

Luna,

If you remain in Plan B and let the attorney do all of the work with WH, your health will probably improve.

Hi all,

I need help. I don't think my current thinking is very clear.

Mainly, I'm feeling tremendously guilty and regretful that we didn't do marriage builders two years into our marriage, when my husband still seemed to have love for me, verses the hatred I've glimpsed this year. I keep feeling like I can do something about that. This is probably me wanting to feel in control when the reality is I have very little control over how things end up at this point.

I can't change that now, I know, but I really wish I could.

I've been on these boards daily, reading different threads and my feeling vacillate between hopelessness of marriage in general (people can be so awful!) and regret over my own mistakes.

I can't imaging trying with someone new. Or even wanting to.

So please, help me not break plan B.

Breaking Plan B will hurt you and result in a worse situation, so stick to darkness and silence in a safe quiet Plan B.

MB is always there for you should your H meet your conditions. If he doesn't, learn all you can about MB principles anyway. They will help you in life and friendships.

Don't break your plan B, LA!

I was in a false reconciliation for a while and I can tell you that is the 7th level of hell. Your emotions are going to be all over the place...just stick to what you are doing. Believe me, the emotions are much worse when there is ongoing contact with a wayward spouse. As hard as it is, you need to have a clear head space right now.

Good news!
Harley Enterprises is constructing the Plan B Lockdown Facility which should be completed next year.
You can voluntariy commit yourself there but will be unable to leave for at least 6 months.
During this time, you will watch MB videos and listen to the MB radio show. There will be no possibility of you ever breaking Plan B for the wrong reasons.

Would you like to be placed on the patient Waiting list?

JK - Haha, yes! I need it.

Indie said to write here if I was feeling weak. Holy cow, did that come fast (feeling weak that is).

Thank you PigletWiglet and LongWay for your encouragement and smart words.

Feeling a little less overwhelmed. I'm thinking of re-signing up for a class that I dropped in the midst of all the chaos. Even if I don't do perfectly, I think being around my classmates for the three hours that day will help me feel connected to others, something I heavily relied on my husband for.

Thanks for the encouragement you guys. Also, the AD are absolutely amazing. I am so glad Dr. H recommended them and doesn't downplay what a devastating time it is. I only wish I was able to get them about a month sooner but that state I was working in made it nearly impossible (*must* be under individual counseling first, and get a referral and then make another appointment...)

Any suggestions on how to move an apartment by myself in a town I know hardly anyone? Lots of it I can pack up on my own, but there are some larger items I relied on having another person to help with... should I just reserve some mover time for that and pay people to load up the container for me? Is this one of those times the money is worth it?

If you have a strong friend or two who would be willing to help with the moving, that would be the least expensive way to go; however, if you can't find anyone free that day for both places, then it would be worthwhile to hire a couple of people to help you with the heavy stuff. Paying someone is worth the cost. Just make sure all the boxes are packed and ready and your furniture is empty and maybe wrapped in blankets for protection.

A couple of friends could help you pack it up and perhaps you could hire someone in the new place to help with the unloading.

Signing up for the class would be a great idea. Anything you can be doing to make yourself feel better and improve your education and knowledge will be very helpful for both now and later.

Have you read this? It may help you stay dark so you don't go through this painful experience. Sometimes a FR can be more painful than an original DDay.

False Recovery-Need Voices of Experience

Brainhurts - Actually, once I started reading it, I realized I have gone through that... it was a huge eye opener.

I do not want that.

And the best way to avoid going through it, is to be educated on the signs so you know what to watch for.

You are doing MB now!

As for not being able to imagine marrying again, how easy do you think it is to imagine running a marathon when you have a broken leg?

Ugh, just walked by a football game with the team that H and OW root for. Triggered all sorts of thoughts of him and her watching it together. Made me so mad.

Last night I told a girlfriend of some of the hurtful, degrading ways H treated me for OW and she had her fist clenched by the end of it. I felt bad that she was getting so upset. It is clear to see it was really horrible behavior by other's reactions to it.

Cannot wait until I just don't care, or even better yet, am happy I can move on. Or H comes back with a better attitude and willingness to be a true H to me. Any of those three would work at this point.

Have a permanent place lined up. It took all of three days and two or three inquiries. Almost too easy. Everyone says I'll feel better once I have a 'new' home and am comfortable. I hope that is the case.

I've been reading threads, including indie's dating thread and have come to realize I never should have married my husband. He met a few needs, but I was so smitten by the feelings of love that I had no judgement. If I had dated even a few more guys, it would have been clear that his attitude of inconsideration during our vacation with his family was a huge red flag of what my future was going to hold. My feelings meant nothing.

We've had many conversations along the lines of "That doesn't bother other people". "Well, I'm not other people, I'm ME, and you're married to ME and it BOTHERS ME."
Still, I don't really think it sank in (or was cared about) that it was a problem for me. Not a buyer attitude.

Hey Luna,

I have been away from the boards for a little while. How are you holding up? Hope you are staying dark...............

I am staying dark. The last few days have been horrible. I've been having panic attacks and thinking super dark, desperate thoughts. I think I'll request upping the AD's when I see the Dr. Thursday.

I so do not want a divorce, I miss my husband terribly and wish I could take back everything that happened this summer. I even miss the stupid fantasy football that we used to fight over the first two years of our marriage.

Think a lot of this has been triggered by facing moving all of my stuff here. It is the last thing I want to do, but I'm sure I'll be doing it anyhow. It is enough to make my brain explode.

School is holding up really well. I have talked to two teachers, and while I am proud of my work so far this year, I have been a little wiffle-waffly in one class and they are understanding. I've also cut down thesis work (read: "alone" work) this quarter in favor of being around other people in classes.

Thanks for asking. I'm here every day nearly, reading and learning...

What self-care are you doing?

If getting your stuff is making you so miserable just leave it. What's more important: Luna's clothes or Luna?

I have a friend who moved just a few hundred miles and she only took a weekend bag.

It's crazy to spend money on transport when you could use that dough on a whole new wardrobe.

Anything of substantial value your lawyer can address.

It is not the stuff per say, just the letting go of the place up there. It is the walking away from the future I thought I had.

I'm responsible for the rent up there (H is off the lease). It would be a lot of money to have everything up there and have a place here too. I could do it, but what's the point? I feel like I would be the ultimate cake eater supporter if I maintained 'our' apartment in case he changes his mind.

He changes his mind, he can come to me. I know this intellectually. Having it sink to to a visceral level is where I need to get...

The thought of leaving everything and starting over is somewhat tempting, but I am not ready quite yet to walk away from all that personal history (and stuff).

My self care is getting a place here. I have yet to sign the lease, but it is drawn up and approved. I need my own space. My roommate is nice, but she burns incense constantly and it is making me physically ill. She also has three pets and the smell of the cat box in bathroom is so unpleasant...

Getting a place I'm comfortable is my biggest push right now.

I remember this stage well and it actually leads you into quite a great life changing mind set.

You come to acknowledge that no plan is set in stone. That life can change in a second no matter how much you have invested in a situation.

You discover how that's really quite OK. That you not only survived it but thrived. That from now on you'll always have a back up plan, hoping for the best but prepared for the worst.

Talking of plans I like your self care plan, but I would consider that a medium term goal. Your long term goals are important but perhaps nothing is so important as the short term in getting you through this very roughest part of plan B.

Things like what can make you happier in the next half hour or day.

Okay, Plan Luna it is!

This is a wonderful Plan

**edited**

My husband's brother was killed in a car accident today. He sent a message to my IM just a little bit ago. I phoned him and emailed but he is not responding (might be on the phone). He told her he is with friends and being supported (a state away).

This is a nightmare. What do I do?

Never mind. I tried. I got "I appreciate your care, but I'm dealing with this with friends." Forget that this was a person that was part of my family too for four years...

Sorry for your loss.

Now will you get back into a dark Plan B?

STOP CALLING YOUR HUSBAND!!!

He doesn't care about you or your feelings! You are only setting yourself up for rejection over and over.

I got that message loud and clear.

This all was after a day of him being a jerk and trying to get me to do something pronto so he could complete moving the phones, an issue from three weeks ago. I was BUSY, living my life, and when I finally got the message to him through my IM (less than twenty four hours later), he was making other demands on something that was not relevant and again didn't need to be done right away. I was shaking yesterday afternoon, and that was doing plan B. He does something to try to upset me every ten days it seems like clockwork. THIS IS WHEN I AM STAYING AWAY.

Then this happened. Sorry, I was really upset and shocked and acted the way I would want someone to act if my brother died. I freaked.

luna,

I think your IM may be forwarding too many of his messages.
Can you send her here and ask her to read the IM Training Thread?

I'll ask. If it's too much for her time right now, do people here ever do it?

Your IM should take a good look through the IM Training Thread Here. If she has further questions, she can register and ask questions in the Other Topics forum. She sounds willing but needs some coaching in how to be effective for you in Plan B. I've read that being an IM is pretty easy once they figure out what's spam and what to pass on to you.

Luna I am so sorry for your loss and your H's response, I would have thought of he told your IM then he wanted you to know and wanted your condolences, but it appears he is still just angry that you "messed" up his life.

Please do not do anything he asks you to do until things are filed and legally done you don't have to do anything he just wants you to do, don't make out ready for him and think about yourself.

Take care of yourself

SC

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that. The last thing I saw before turning the forwarding back on was an email signed 'love, H'. It was weird, but I'm not putting much weight into it since he just arrived home and was probably related to seeing his folks and thoughts I might call them.

Per my mom's instructions, I did not call his family. I'll send them sympathy cards but no contact otherwise.

Things in H's life might fall apart rather quickly here, so my family is pushing me to get the D done quickly before he decides to come after me for support or other things. Think that is probably for the best.

So what did I do for plan Luna this weekend? Talked to several friends, went for a walk with my old roommate this morning, managed to get some homework done and am continuing to push forward. I am now late on an assignment, but my kindness to myself is to keep working on it and not go into self beating up mode for lack of promptness. This is very unlike me (the lateness), but dang it, I am doing the best I can right now and that is just going to have to be good enough. For everybody. And it is.

Not that I'm going to stop trying for better, but some slack and self love is needed here. I get enough blame elsewhere.

I have received an invitation to the wake and service for BIL. The wording is this "I understand that BIL family to you too, and I feel that it would be wrong to exclude you."

Otherwise it was clear they were 'us' family, and I am not. I would be in a hotel, paying for plane tickets and a rental car.

Do I go?

No, do not go.
You are in Plan B

Luna,

How did you get this invite? Did it go through your IM?
It should have not been forwarded to you.

Luna I am sorry I do not know what to tell you to do. Hopefully Indie will be on soon, she was in Plan B for way longer than me.

You could also email the radio show.

That is a great idea. I will do that now - and wish I had done it last night.

Wrote to Radio show but in the mean time decided I'm not going for various reasons, the biggest of which is that my main responsibility is taking care of myself and no one else.

I am glad you made a decision and it is probably the best thing as the "friends" will probably be there.

Just send some flowers

Hon, stay dark even during tragedy. This isn't happening to him it is happening to an alien. If he needs your comfort the way to you is lighted by your Plan B letter.

I think your IM could benefit from the training thread as it would save her time. She is working too hard passing on too much. All she has to do is block, block, block.

The good part, if you can call it that, of a month away from him and then having to dealing with him again is that it makes me realize I really don't want this marriage.

We were walking home one night when we were still together this past summer and he was, frankly, drunk. I wouldn't talk about something he wanted to so he refused to hold my hand. He was drunk enough that it was not subtle at all, but rather obvious that he was doing it to punish me and control me. Looking back on that, it represents what I have been enduring for five years but I was not able to so clearly see it.

Between the manipulation, the draining of my emotional and financial resources, the constant parade of new women and people I've had to compete with this past year, I just don't want to live this way anymore. I've been fighting to get back... misery.

I actually had to sit at drinks and listen to him brag about how his new crew of female enablers (intern boss and master's advisor) were caretaking him. I had no words.

I know this isn't supposed to be a blog, but I am trying to remind myself and perhaps share with you guys why I want to move on.

Well this sounds encouraging, keep up the good Plan Luna......

Thank you SC, Indie and JK.

Plan Luna!

I expected this. It happened to me and to nearly everybody. It doesn't mean there isn't some hard days ahead. But I had lots of bright days for every hard one.

Blog away! We have a go at people who are blogging events when urgent action is needed, but that isn't the case for you any more.

Your mission now is to live. When you are strong tell us, and when you are weak tell us. You will find that temptation to peek will still happen and the fact I would have to fess up on here while blogging kept me from doing that.

There are some people who fall prey and plan not to tell but the change in their mood and recovery is pretty obvious.

Successful Plan B threads are also a help to people coming up behind. From my perspective it was my savour, a castle filled with plenty in the forest of want, but to most people Plan B is just a big vast void without love, or a future or indeed a plan.

If they read threads like yours (I really see a success story here) then it isn't quite so scary.

That indie, she is an awesome woman, she has lived your experience listen to her and keep on your Plan Luna

Thanks Indie and SC.

Things are good. I'm tired and have just a tad too much to do, but I'm trying to get through one day at a time.

I think you are right Indie, this is going to be a bonanza of plenty once I get things settled to a more comfortable spot. I'll never settle for so little from a man ever again.

IM knows I only need to know two issues relevant to the D and otherwise it all good to go. (Need a signature on the car title, which was already agreed that I would keep and I want to buy back a bike accessory that was mine from childhood. Don't see a reason for problems.)

We have a famous person working on our film (that I wrote!) and lots of people keep telling me how much they like the script. One of my profs worked closely on it, so he of course is responsible for some of the credit. But one compliment that just warms heart is that this prof loves one of the lines that I threw in, with a little trepidation because it was out there, but I loved it too. So I went for it - and won!

It looks like, besides school work, I'll just have to work a week or two this summer and then be able to have some down time to readjust and purge things down to what is important to me. Or, if I do get work that fits in the summer time frame, I'll be in the most amazing financial shape of my life. Either way, things are really going well.

Now to just get the paper work done so I don't have that hanging over my head...

Just out of curiosity,

Do you ever pull all nighters on school work?

JK, no I don't do that except in dire circumstances (few times in my life). Sleep always pays off better than a few hours working while exhausted.

And right now, I think lack of sleep would push me off into depression. I'm doing everything I can to stay out of that pit, because I don't want to be fighting that and making all these changes in my life at the same time.

Self care above all.

Feeling a bit guilty for not being at the funeral today but it really would not have been good for me to be there. Sure he spun some terrible story about me to his family.

Ugh, packing some stuff and found our marriage builders exercises. We stopped filling out the UA worksheets in April. Makes me sad - if we had just keep going, perhaps things could be better. I know I had a part in all this.

On the other hand, he wrote that he wanted less of my conversation on reactions to things, but then on another part said I was dishonest when I didn't tell him I was upset. Huh? That seems like a contradiction.

Dr. H (son) thought we could work things out but H was just not interested and that is when things with other people really started ramping up. Sad, sad, sad. Hard knowing it is just such an unnecessary waste.

Lest you think I am wallowing, (five minutes, maybe), I did get my homework done and am working on my list of self-care for stuff I need to take tomorrow to make my life easier. I had the impulse to call him and ask for the zillionth time if he really would not change his mind. I did not do it. Yay me.

Listen, anyone can change.
My ex wife is by many standards a complete failure at this point in her life...BUT
She could turn that around if she wanted to.
I can't imagine having anything to do with her at this point in time, but if she seriously left the OM, read all of Dr. Harley's books and listened to his daily radio show for a year...then I honestly dont know.

But you can spend your life wondering about what-ifs and where would it lead you?

I would try not to worry about what he is spinning, regardless of what he says to anyone you know in your heart what the truth is and if those other people believe his tall tales then you do not need them in your life anyway, that does not fit into Plan Luna.

This is okay, like Indie said you will have the bad with the good. And I am so proud of you for not calling and not going to the funeral. I am sure that was not an easy thing to do.

Just keep up with your Plan Luna

And BTW congrats on all of your school/work things, it sounds like things are going GREAT in that part of your life.

Right, thank you S.C., I can't control what people think and running around trying to do something about it is more than I can deal with right now.

My IM told me there was a response on business (no arguments as I predicted). It is more relieving that I would have thought to not see the emails. I'm sure there was a dig somewhere in there but I didn't have to see it!! Yay! No, that deserves a double Yay Yay!!

Hurting on the sleep area, so that is the first order of business and then tomorrow I'll be able to organize everything else. One downfall of being so busy is that things come up I just can't squeeze in... like a smart phone film festival where the entries are due in three weeks. Checking the calendar, nope... can't do it... Oh well. There are tons worse problems.

I really don't think you did. I've never seen a clearer example of a freeloader/renter than your H. He could get motivated to change, but there's not much you could do against his previous mind set.

I've done this to myself too. I was a pretty angry wife, viciously eloquent and a hurtful person to be married to. I accept that it was appalling and no matter how much provocation I had it was flat out ugly. Early in Plan B I thought if I hadn't done that I could have prevented the A. But I couldn't because I had never chosen it. His IB did. I came to see that I never should have gotten angry over it, I should simply have left sooner. Leaving is actually the most respectful thing to do sometimes, which is an odd concept if you are naturally naturally buyer-y, but it's true. Working harder was the worst thing you could have done.

Good job getting rid of trigger stuff like that.



Yay indeed! It gets easier every time you do this.

Yes, it is.

These days when I see my kids fighting I teach them that the first thing to do is to get away from each other. Amazingly enough most of the time when there is a squabble, someone is sitting around letting someone hurt them while complaining about it, and escalating from complaints to fighting back. Instead of letting yourself get hurt, and fighting, it's best just to back away into a safe, calm isolation!

That is a great point.


Thanks for sharing that. It is a new mindset to learn that leaving is the best, and the most respectful thing to do. To me it speaks of neglect, but I was the only one getting hurt really.

I'm pretty pissed at all the time, energy, money I put into this. I am trying to keep an attitude of gratitude and thanking my lucky stars that he behaved so absolutely terribly that even I couldn't take it anymore. I know what I did, and he would be nowhere without my help, even if he and his enabler family will not acknowledge it. So now at least I have a chance to see how awesome my life can be without him draining all my resources.

Having a feeling I'm going to be going for a lot of long walks until this anger dissipates!

Being angry is a natural step too, I was just reading something yesterday about the 7 stages of grief. This will get easier, just keep up your Plan Luna

Try not to let your thoughts dwell. Have a stack of distractions to hand. Silly movies, great books, a good friend on speed dial.

Long walks actually sound like a dwelling opportunity. I know I was never able to complete a long drive, or for that matter a shower, without dwelling unless I was playing really fun music.


As long as you make progress in thinking about you more and him less - then you are making progress.

Initially it feels impossible to stop. Even when you are boring yourself, it's relentless. But persevere - it happens.

It feels like sleep is an awful time to dwell too. Had a horrible dream last night. Been sleeping nine and ten hours a day. Must need it, but it feels like a hair too much.

Will keep the distractions up. Have lots of stuff I want to do and have to do, so that helps.

Thanks for the encouragement on making progress. I'm filling out my part of the paperwork and sending it off tomorrow, which is coincidentally the sixth year anniversary of us meeting. Feels appropriate somehow.

Do you have an exercise regimen? Yoga?

I can do yoga on campus for free. Not entirely happy with the teacher/class compared to others I've had but it is something. I walk a few miles everyday just to classes and such (my apartment is close enough that I don't drive).

Been able to concentrate much better the last few days. I think the ADs are finally kicking in and I actually had a few hours of happy (felt euphoric in contrast to some of the recent times!). So that is a plus. A big plus actually...

My apartment is cheery and sunny in the mornings. I love it compared to the cold and damp place where my H and I lived.

This is very good and makes things a little easier to deal with when you can at least think straight.


I am glad, cheery is ALWAYS better.

I am so frustrated. I called the court to find out who to make the check out to for the response and found out that our case has been dismissed because basically I dragged my feet. I'll admit it, I did not want a divorce at first, but now after four weeks away and the experience last weekend, I want it more than anything I can think of.

I am so mad at myself. So mad! Now I'll have to depend on my IM getting him to write the judge a letter reversing the dismissal or simply filing all the paper work on my end and it is a big hassle. Shoot Shoot Shoot Shoot.

My biggest nightmare is that he decides he doesn't want a divorce after all. I can't imaging that happening, except for spite. I wish it was over yesterday.

Can you write the judge and ask to reverse the dismissal?

The clerk seemed to think it has to come from my husband.

I can try writing a letter just in case.

I don't have his SSN or DL number here so am a bit frazzled how I'll get this done. I don't want to wait two weeks until I am back in town again. Want this done before the end of the year so I can file my taxes as a single person....

Do both, let your IM send him a message and write a letter yourself.

You can't write a letter to a judge.
You would need to file a Motion with the court.
This is soemthing you should not even be dealing with in the early stages of Plan B and should simply direct your attorney to file the necessary paperwork to proceed with divorce.

This is what the clerk said because there was no stock paperwork to file a motion, althought I did find a document online. This is the courthouse in a tiny, tiny town, so I think she might actually know what she is talking about. There cannot be that many people that work in the building!

In any case, I've decided on doing the paperwork as petitioner. This way it can be the correct paperwork and the divorce will not have any question marks on it (the H selected paperwork that was technically not allowed for us and signed it, something I am not willing to do.)

It will get done.

Do you have a lawyer?

I have a couple recommendations if I need one but I have not put anyone on retainer yet.

Of course you should be the petitioner! They control the process and it is a legal record of your marital history.

Relax, you've now decided and are proceeding.

Maybe I should be more worried what other people think, but for some reason I am not. Either as petitioner or respondent, I am happy as long as I am free of the situation. So if he needs to be able to say he left me, he can have the pleasure.

My IM did get a hold of him, and he submitted something today. If that is not approved, I'll do the petitioner.

I am much calmer and relaxed. My knee jerk fear when the case was dismissed was a huge shock to me. That was what I was working towards before we stopped contact and I got what I had then wanted! How quickly things can change.

I know it's hard to visualize it a this point, but you will be better off a year from now and fantastic in a couple years.

There are a lot of young men out there that would love to show love and care to a wife and build a fantastic marriage.

Life is a learning experience.

Luna I am really happy for you you seem like a new person, we told you that Plan Luna was the best way to go. Now that you have decided it will get easier from here but you will still have bad days be careful on those days to take care of yourself......

Thanks for the support. I think my biggest danger is being over confident with the soon to be ex H. He is a trigger for me and I need to always keep that in mind.

I am no hurry to find someone else, which I think is a good thing. I'm really looking forward to getting my own house in order, purging myself of things that I don't need and/or are not good for me. Simplicity and self care!

This coming summer will be a wonderful down time I hope. And by down, I mean resting and rejuvenating, not being sad 'down'.

Today was one of those tough days. Went to a new grocery store, something I've come to associate with the H and all our travels.

Keep reminding myself of all the times he was mean because I was happy, or abusive. It helps a little.

One time I saved us $1600 because I told him to check one location that I thought his lost wedding ring was (before we were about to buy another one). He finally checked, after five months and 2000 miles between us and where it was lost (lost as part of moving). He comes back up the stairs wearing the ring and instead of saying congrats, or cool, or thank you, he says "I never looked there because I thought you were full of [censored].". I was stunned at the time. The abuse was out of nowhere, when I had been right and helped us out so much. I stood at the sink with the dishes in my hand and felt so lost. I didn't know what to do.

This was after we have spend a whole afternoon emptying out a recycling dumpster looking for it instead of starting our two day drive home. We could have not done all that, but he had refused to check this one place and I didn't want to cause a fight by doing it myself.

So yeah, trying to keep perspective. I think if I had kept a journal it would be even easier.

Try not to look back. Feeling aggrieved at the past injustices is a good sign. It means you are getting more objective. But try not to get stuck there. Grieve, but move on to thoughts of yourself.

Good call. Venting did nothing to help me feel better.

Things will improve when I get my household together (in one apartment). In the meanwhile, the manager killed a huge bug that got in my house (thank goodness) and I've got nice dinner plans on Friday with two girlfriends.

And I studied with a friend out last night and stayed at her place due to said bug. That was really nice. I felt so blessed.

So it is going pretty well.

That must have been some bug.
Was it from outer space or just a domestic bug that grew 100 times larger due to radiation poisoning?

Sewer cockroach. It over almost four inches I'd say. Even the manager was a bit surprised at the size.

It was big enough to see where it went to the bathroom in my bathroom. Dis-gusting.

This feels very far away right now.

I can function doing things I normally do in this town all day long, but the moment I do something new. it seems to set me off. Driving here is awful (my car was never here before).

Thinking about getting a cat but am scared of the commitment to another creature. My last cat lived two decades.

What are you doing for your self-care? What about lunch with some good friends?

Luna,

I saw your post about the age differences on another thread.
What are the ages of you and your husband?

BTW, what happened to Blindsides thread? Did he delete it?

It was recently moved to the Divorced/Divorcing subforum.

LTL

Self care:
Getting enough sleep, no alcohol due to depressant qualities, being gentle with myself on how slowly I am getting some things done, dinner with friends tomorrow, writing my mom since she is out of the country and not available for phone calls, talking to other friends on the phone and letting myself get B's in classes or whatever. I just need to get through this quarter, I don't need to be a superstar.

Things I am struggling with include laundry and grocery shopping. So I am letting myself eat out more even if I wouldn't normally spend that kind of money, and also finding a way to do the bare minimum of washing.

Any suggestions are welcome. My friend would went through a divorce advised me to concentrate my energies on the lowest level of the needs pyramid until I feel better. That advice has helped me focus a bit on just the necessities to get through.

I am also under a doctor's care right now, but again, not forcing myself to go to counseling every week. I need less duties, not more, and having another task like that would stress me out.

Can you please answer this question/

Did you have a prior thread here?
Is this your thread?
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...e+difference&Search=true#Post2782737

I, too, would like to see an answer to Jedi's questions.

It is my thread.

Is this your first marriage?

It is my first marriage. I think that is partly due to picking bad men to date, and reacting to things not working well by throwing myself into other activities that I was much more successful at. I think a concentrated effort to do the 30 date approach, and taking things very slow would have been a more effective approach for finding a good long term mate.

When I start dating again, (if this is unfixable, as I am guessing it is), that would be my approach. If I had done that, I never would have made it to marriage with my H because I would have been in a better position to decide against it after the first red flag. Getting so serious, so fast, does bad things to my ability to stand up for myself. Too invested. And it is easier to not take that personally after learning that is a normal human response, and not some innate failing of my personality.

And it should be easier since there are other good things in my life right now that I am enjoying very much.

Have you read the book Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders?

Here's a good thread on this. Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

I have read the book. I'll go through the discussion thread to see what that says.

My downfall is sacrificing, and the natural resentment it creates. It was hard to be a buyer with my husband, because we didn't follow the POJA as much as we should have. That is the first step.

Brainhurts,

I have a question about POJA. A few weeks back, when I had initiated contact to the H due to the tragedy in his family, I found out that he got a tattoo with his siblings to commemorate his brother. A large one. I hate those things, and he knows it. So I know I'd get upset feelings every time I saw it if I ever see him again (I am not breaking plan B, this is a hypothetical if). I can't imagine him agreeing to get rid of it, though in honesty, that is my desire.

Does this fall in the realm of POJA? It seems like it to me. Beyond all the other horrible issues, this alone seems to make things unworkable for me. Is this a reasonable boundary in a marriage?

This might be obvious to others, but I can only imagine the criticism I would be subject to for making that request from him and his family and need a reality check on this.

Thanks.

Yes, tattoos and even hair styles fall within the realm of POJA. Everything does. The only exception is in cases concerning health and safety.

Yes everything falls under POJA. There was a radio show about this very subject. A wife wanted a tattoo and her husband didn't.

I can find it if you'd like to listen to it.

Did you email Dr. Harley?

We did a long time ago and learned that we had a problem with sacrificing and should be following PJOA. My H was less enthusiastic about it than I was because he felt there was nothing I like to do. We added Yoga and coffee talks on Saturdays because of efforts to find RA so I struggled to understand why he couldn't believe further improvements were possible.

We did counseling with his son and things with the other people ramped up around that time. Perhaps I could have handled it better, but in the end I had to get away because it was tearing me apart. Everyone else was more important - something he point blank told me.

I am having a very bad day. Okay two days. I have a deadline coming up and that might be pushing my buttons, but I want nothing more than to call him and tell him I'll do whatever if we could just work on things.

What is stopping me is know I can't "do whatever" because I get too resentful. But I am feeling weak and desperate enough to go to that awful place for a while. If I make it through this day without breaking down and doing it, it will be huge.

I miss our life together, even when I was working full time and he stayed at home, because at least he was home when I got there and we could go for walks and hold hands and talk. Now I am working but when I come home there is nobody. I really miss talking to him.

Honestly, I feel very confused. You guys tell me I did the right thing and that my pain was real and I shouldn't be treated that way, but I can't help feeling that if I had done something better it wouldn't have worked out this way. I mean, if I did the right thing, then why is the end result that I am alone and in so much pain?

LA, I am so sorry you are in such pain today. But it won't always be this way if you cut off all contact. The longer you go with no contact, the sooner it will be that you don't miss him. Contacting him will make you feel WORSE, not better. It also makes you look so unattractive to him. Don't do that to yourself. Let your logic override your emotions. It is so very important to your emotional well being.

Please help luna_alpha today and don't allow her to contact him, which will result in greater emotional devastation.

Thank you MelodyLane. I don't need more pain today. Someday that reason alone will be enough, but hearing that it will make me look unattractive to him really pushes it to a place I don't want to go.

Brainhurts, I would like to hear the show about the tattoos. Thank you.

Luna Alpha,

Being in Plan B as well, I have those days/moments sometimes and it's all the harder for me because I know my husband is constantly bothering my IM about everything (I don't know about what, although I know it has been happening throughout).

But then I think about the terrible OW-- who has the morality of a two-cent prostitute and totally didn't mind contributing to breaking up a family that included a two year-old-- and I think, "there is no way I could be less attractive or valuable than that." And that thought helps.

Good on you for staying strong.

Here it is. It's the last question.

Radio Clip on Getting a Tattoo

Thanks Brainhurts.

PigletWiglet, thanks for sharing. I think it would be harder if he was trying to contact me, like yours is and you have a child together. I just can't get over how selfish some people are and have no respect for boundaries (OW). All about what they want, and screw everyone else.

Made it through the weekend, although all I want to do is contact him and tell him I don't want a divorce and can't we just work things out? (cue begging) And that will get me some mean comment. My mom says he'll figure it out when it's too late. That is not much comfort.

Plan Luna. Well, I got the bed put together (Ikea deal). It was easier than I thought it'd be, even with making a mistake and having to go back a step and fix it. Not sleeping on a mattress on the floor is a nice change.

Got lots of sleep on Friday. My body seems to be going back to normal after all that stress. First normal 'month' in about the last three. That is a good sign. I don't need my health falling apart on top of everything else.

Brainstormed with some friends about fun things to do this summer. It looks like Venice, South Korea and working a job on the east coast for a week (visiting people there I really like) might be the itinerary. Plus a trip home to the midwest. Lucky I can travel. Now to find a way to make it fun, and not an opportunity to mope about the H (or possibly ex-H at that point). We used to travel together but stopped because I was always working for us. My traveling days don't have to be over, do they? No. They don't. There are seven billion people in this world, dang it, there has to be someone who likes me and wants a real commitment.

Have you changed your contact information so he can't contact you?

Sure there is.
Just make sure you wait for divorce to be finalized before you meet him

Phone is blocked from his numbers, my email forwards. Yes, he could find a way around this, but in the entire time of our relationship, he rarely contacts me on his own, and never to fix a fight or a breakup. I can think of one instance he called me at work because I had not contacted him in a while.

I can't say enough that I am breaking the rules of our relationship by not calling him and pushing for it to continue. I feel massively guilty about this. In the five years I have known him, I always contacted him over and over again, sweet talked him into us. So despite what he has done, somehow I feel personally responsible for the end because I am no playing my designated role.

That role is a dead end in almost any marriage. I have yet to see that setup work for a marriage anywhere.

So I take it I shouldn't feel guilty about abandoning this dead end for myself.

Dr. Harley states that men don't respect women who chase them. You have chased him your whole relationship. So it's no surprise he hasn't tried to contact you, sorry.

Now it's time to stay in your dark Plan b and heal. Have you looked at all at pictures or his social media's?

Where are you at in the divorce proceedings?

We are not friends on social media and I've put his family on a restricted list and also taken them off my newsfeed. So I don't see pictures unintentionally. I did see some yesterday because I was bad and looked at his brother's page. I know, a huge no-no. I can't quite bring myself to delete all those people yet but that is the long term plan. I think.

No, I don't think he respected me. He was highly critical of me in nearly all respects. It was like I could not do anything right. Even my being happy used to make him angry. Somehow it was offensive when I felt especially good.

So my chasing him probably means he will never feel the urge to chase me then? I should just forget about him and move on? Please be straight with me, it is painful enough without having false hope.

It has been a week since he submitted the request to the judge to reinstate the petition. I'm sending off my confirmation of service tomorrow. I asked my IM about an hour ago (via email) to please ask if he has heard anything from the judge since it costs money to get a notary around here. There was a snafu with my checks from the bank but hopefully they come in the next week so I can send in my response and fee.

Yes, I'm sorry, but I think you should forget about him and move on. He is not marriage material. He is a freeloader and a renter at best. This has been going on since February of this year..

You also said he has anger issues? Dr. Harley would recommend for you to separate for at least a year until he went through anger management. There is just so much that he doesn't bring to the marriage.

Heal and move on and realize you deserve so much more. You deserve to be chased.

Alpha Luna,

Delete (or at least deactivate) your FB account in Plan B. It will help save your sanity.

Definitely don't chase your husband. I agree with BH. He is a freeloader.

Your feelings will sort themselves out in time. In the meantime, just realize that there is probably no good you can do with that route. Think about it - 100% of the times you have talked him into giving things a second chance, in the long term, it has failed anyway. That has never been a successful route to long term marital restoration for you, and it probably never would be, and it usually is not for most marriages - so why beat your head against the wall?

I agree. You have tried more than your best. You deserve so much more.

Ditto x 100

Chasing him makes you very unattractive. And yes, you should move on. This marriage is dead. I am sorry to tell you this, but I think you are a smart, wonderful woman and I hate to see you making things harder for yourself.

If you will commit to a completely DARK Plan B, I promise you will feel better very soon and your clear thinking will come back. But you have to suck it up and force yourself to stay completely dark. That means no facebook page gawking, no nothing. Everytime you go on Facebook and look him up, you just put yourself back to day 1 of recovery. You cause yourself misery.


How much money? $20? Just pay the cost for a notary and avoid this contact. Do everything in your power to avoid any contact even if its through the IM because that will keep you triggered.

Thanks for the hard truths everyone. It is painful to realize how this marriage probably should not have happened and I only have myself to thank for that one. Well, at least I am better prepared for future decisions.

Still sad, but moving forward.

Sent in the proof of service. I'll call the court in a few days to see if the case was reinstated and if yes, I send in the response, even if I have to get a money order from somewhere.

Thanks everyone for telling me I deserve more. It might be obvious to everyone on the outside but from here it's not always clear.

Sort of unrelated, but I realized haven't hear from Indiegirl in a while. Hope that means great things are going on her life!

(Not sure where to post this - my own thread seemed the safest.)

Have you removed his family from your FB page? That is not going to work for your Plan B....I can tell you that right now. That is going to keep you stuck.

I would even suggest removing them and then deactivating the account until you have gotten through withdrawal so that you will not be tempted to look for pictures/news of your H.

His family is on my restricted list so they can't see my page. I have not been looking at their stuff. I am struggling with deleting them because frankly, there is one of them I like as a person (his brother) and am not sure I want to go there. But I think long term it is going to have to be since seeing any future news of him is going to be awful, at least while I still feel this way. And if I have a future relationship, it would be disrespectful and inconsiderate to still have that contact, at least that is what I am understanding of things.

I get a lot of support from my friends on Facebook so that is why I haven't deactivated it yet. I'd sooner delete his friends and family at this point if it comes down to it.

It sounds like I need to at the very minimum delete his family. Would it be appropriate to send a goodbye message to the one or two I like telling them it is for my own good? Is that silly?

I would advocate for deleting your account or deactivating still. I hung on to my FB account as well because I used it to chat/support. I get it. However, we had 200 common friends (not including his family), so there was just too much danger in it. Also realize that FB itself is addictive and generally not a good habit and can keep you stuck.

I downloaded Google Hangouts on my phone. Told my friends that I was going to be using that instead for chatting and deleted FB. I am glad I did. It wasn't adding much to my life and keeping me stuck.

It's OK but just get it done... like today.

200 common friends. Holy cow. No, we have like two or three, his family, my family (who are all on my side). I know who of the common friends was supportive and I can just get rid of the rest. Most of the people there are people I've know long before I met H.

Okay, I will do this today. There are other cool people in this world, I don't need to hang onto THESE people. And if he ever comes to a different point of view and want to work on things, I can always re-friend them.

Sounds good.

Yes, we had a fairly integrated group of friends through his work (he owns a CrossFit affliate) and just because we were married. We just friended each other's friends when we were in love.

His affair partially took place on FB, so I generally hate it now. Just like I hate CrossFit. Eventhough its just an exercise program, it triggers me so much, I could never do it again, even though I loved it for a long time.

Just delete them already! Feelings follow actions.

I'm well thanks for asking! Just going through the growth pains of becoming a teacher. I've never been busier.

I think you are responding to me (piglet) above, not Luna. I think she deleted her WH's family already and I deleted FB a while back. I also blocked even searching for OW's name (she is s social media junkie and keeps all of her accounts open. She even has Myspace for Pete's sake. So I blocked seeing ANY of her gross information). I do check her cheaterville post from time to time though as seeing the tens of thousands of views makes me feel better.

PW and IG, Okay, deleted his family. That was so hard! Ouch!

PW - Facebook is a huge time sink. Sorry to hear about cross fit, but there are a ton of other ways to get exercise. I'm appreciating the benefit of avoiding triggers. Than you for sharing... It really helped push me over the edge of just doing it!

IG - Congrats on the teacher journey! It's nice to hear from you again.

Plan Luna,
Well - I finally found an eye doctor!! Yay! Sounds small, but each piece of self-care I manage feels huge, and that was one of those multi-parters: find one with my insurance, call, make the appointment, etc. In other words, a challenge in my mental state. But done!

Doing a good job of being gentle with myself. I had a play due yesterday, and instead of freaking, not getting enough sleep, beating myself up about it, I was calm, put a reasonable amount of time in and made some fantastic discoveries in the writing process. So now, I have some good stuff, and a plan on how to improve it (key) and all without putting myself through trauma to get there. Another victory for Luna.

Also put a filter in my shower this am. It leaks a little, but I can fix that.

I've come to realize how the H hijacks my thoughts during the day, and especially in the morning when I wake up. I'm trying to catch this as much as possible and change the topic in my head. Had some success this am and want to keep doing this. It seems to help. I still love him, but I don't need to think about that. Nope. Going to make my life fantastic and never settle for begging for anyone or anything again. NEVER. He is welcome to come back ONLY if he treats me right. And if not him, then someone better.

Onwards and upwards!

Yes I was supposed to have quoted Luna first and you second - so tired!



Snap an elastic band on your wrist if your thoughts get very awry. It worked for me!

Okay. Our case was reinstated with the court. Is this really what I want? I'm having huge anxiety. I sent in the receipt of service, so whether I want it or not, it's coming.

You guys keep telling me there is better out there, but this is scary as all get out to go through.

I'm sending in my response tomorrow. And then as soon as the judge rules, I am single. I'm going on some dates right away as soon as that happens. I might find I don't like it and stop, but I think meeting for coffee with some guys is just what I need. Proof of life afterwards. (Don't worry, I am not rushing into ANYTHING.)

This might seem crazy, but I keep telling myself we could always get re-married later if he comes to a different world view, but right now I feel very vulnerable financially. If we ever were to work things out, or if I am with someone else, they will support me. I don't ask for much in terms of lifestyle, but I am not going to be the breadwinner anymore. Ever.

Thank goodness for the prenup we did. Best money I've spent.

So very proud of you!! You did the right thing. And I do agree with your plan to get out there and date once you are divorced. Start playing the field and having some fun!

I love your plan of finding someone to support you in your next marriage. I have been in your position myself, supporting a man, and I hated it! I much prefer being married to a guy who makes a good living.

You can have any crazy ole thought you want - as long as you don't act on it and you stay on the path to SANITY.

I see happiness and peace of mind in your future. I really do. I am so happy for you.

Thanks MelodyLane. I really need your cheering on through this step!! Getting the response in, then getting the last few bits of personal items moved and it is over.

Wow.

I

I also am (still) married to a guy I supported for 4 year. I didn't realize how much I hated it until now. Never. Again.

Okay, I'm getting everything ready and found a post office that is open at 8 am tomorrow so I can it done it before teaching.

PW - I thought it would be no big deal, right? Wrong. I loved how in counseling the H protested because I could make so much more than him and Steve's response was (paraphrasing) "you can masturbate, can't you?. Well, that takes care of your SF, but it's so much better when someone else takes care of that need isn't it? Having someone else do it makes you feel loved."

Best moment of counseling, ever.

Carry on! You are doing just great. Bring the body and the mind will follow. Just keep walking out of this nightmare. You will look back on this time a year from now and will be so proud and so glad you made the decision to walk yourself out of this mess.

I have found this quote to be so meaningful when times were tough:

If you're going through hell, keep going.
Winston Churchill

Good job luna. I can't begin to tell you how much stronger you already sound. I know it's tough, but you will come out the other side.

Keep going, friend.

Ditto what everyone else is saying, I am so proud of you and your Plan Luna is going GREAT.

Just keep up the hard work, it will be so worth it in the end........

I am excited for the future. I ran around this morning trying to get to a post office that does money orders. No go - but I have time this afternoon and it will all be sent off. This all should be wrapped up before Christmas.

My family and friends have been wonderful, supportive and loving. I am so grateful for the advice to tell everyone what was going on. I went from a place of shame and fear to having people help me. Yes, I played a role, but I am not the one who choose to not invest in a true marriage. I'm going to take my toys and go elsewhere.

I can't even regret the relationship too much. It got me to the school where I am having fantastic success, and even had some fun times in the town where he was going to school. I never would have lived there otherwise.

And I now know unequivocally what behavior will never work in a partner.

Going to read HNHN over xmas break, as well as Are You the One. And I am going to get three dating profiles up and play around with that (once it is finalized and I'm legit and free). I read a book awhile back that was fascinating and had all sorts of maps of people, economic activity (great examples of useful data representation), etc and where I am living now has a huge ratio of single men to single women due (hypothesized because) women tend to move less to stay by family. So "the odds are ever in my favor" is a truism here. I admit I peeked at one last night just to see and it was packed full of people (no, I didn't do anything JK!)

I know, intellectually, I will so happy one day this happened. Now to just do the work to make that happen as quickly as possible. I don't want to waste anymore time!

Have you ordered Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders? That is one of my favorite Dr. Harley books.
Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

I think I have Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders back at the apartment. I'll check next week when I am there. I guess that should be to the top of the list, since I clearly missed it this last time.

My checks came! I am starting a brand new register and everything. Symbolic that the first check will be for my freedom and future happiness.

I have to admit, looking at my old register triggered some guilt. When I was supporting us, I had my checks go into my individual account because all of our (not insignificant) debt was in my name alone. Guilt, guilt, guilt for not sharing. If I was going to have a redo, it ALL would have been joint (and I would NOT have been the sole provider). What was I thinking marrying someone who couldn't even support themselves yet? For crying out loud Luna... Oh well. Learning allowed, no self-beating up.

Response mailed priority mail to the court, and regular mail to the H. Put our verbal agreement on the last few things in writing on it for my own peace of mind.

Wow. Thank you guys for the support. I was an absolute wreck and non-functioning (basically) two months ago. Still hurts, but much better now.

You are awesome, luna_alpha!! Now, go change the the little frownie icon next to your name! Your future is very bright...

You're learning and DOING and that's what is so awesome.

You sound so much better. Good job!!!!

Okay, I'll figure out the icon thing soon and get that done!

How's this for doing good: My IM got back to me and H refuses to sign the car title until the divorce is final. Who put that in the response as a condition for the dissolution? *I did*!!! WOOOT. Play your games with the judge if you want, but you aren't playing them with me anymore!

Time to figure out the smiley face...

Ohhh, feeling some anxiety today about being alone for-ever but I need to think positively. That sort of thinking is how I was vulnerable to this whole thing to begin with. Besides, there are worse things than being single, right?

I'm looking forward to purging my life of many physical possessions, especially those that are triggers, and getting down to a lean set of just what I need and nothing more. Really grateful I don't have kids in this mess (not that I didn't want kids, it is just easier without them at this moment!).

Thank you guys for pushing me to make get rid people that might ruin my plan B on Facebook (his immediate family, wayward thinkers who didn't help the marriage, etc). I had no idea how much it was affecting me. I realize now it was because 1. I feel more relaxed going there and 2. I don't feel the compulsion to go there. Even if I didn't 'peek', somehow I still needed to check it...? Weird. I have noticed that when I'm really interested in my own life and enjoying it, I tend to look at it less anyhow. Too busy.

Yes!! What is worse is being ALL ALONE and HEARTBROKEN while married. You will not be alone forever! Now you have a CHANCE in your future to find someone who is great for you.


You are going GREAT and you will find you feel better and better every day as time goes on. Bring the body and the mind will follow. You are walking yourself out of hell and into a happy, fulfilling life. You had NO CHANCE at happiness yoked in this horrible, unfulfilling marriage. Leaving the marriage gives you a chance to find happiness with someone who loves and cares for you!

What really causes anxiety and misery is being married to a cheater who doesn't care very much about protecting you or the marriage.

The more and more time I spent in Plan B and accepted my M was over, I realized I felt more happy and peace than I had in a very very long time. Not to mention I became a better mother, daughter, sister and friend. I had drained a lot of my energy into a bad marriage. It was wonderful to focus on all the other positive relationships and things in my life!

Hang in there!

I am finding you are right - the body is just fighting back, lol! Stupid dreams. Had one last night H told me he changed his mind about the divorce, then abandoned me in the woods looking for my car with only a blanket on. Think my mind was trying to tell me something?


That sounds great SusieQ. I keep reading everyone's responses over and over again for reassurance, and asking my friends and family if I am doing the right thing. They have been wonderful at being a reality check and I have been going with what they say, and not trying to 'fix things'. Yay, for small steps.

The IM let me know H got my responses and will go along with my requests. So we are in agreement and now it is just paperwork I guess. Someone has to request the final judgement.

I wrote a really cool play inspired by the end of this marriage. I like it so much that I'm extremely nervous about the rewrites. I also have that going on with another current piece of writing (children's movie) ... it is a horrible/great problem to have. You like what you've written so much that you are afraid you are going to 'break' it in trying to improve it.

Ooh I remember the dreams! Beat him up a little bit if he shows in another one.

Sounds like your Plan is rocking.

Keep going luna!! You're doing fantastic!!

Next time just slap him around a little

Are you going to do that just to have it done with?



I am so happy for you, you are just doing great. Keep up your great PLAN LUNA!!!!!

Haha! No dreams last night, so that is good. Learning that not engaging is the best (even in my sleep!)

Once I get the two things I want in my hands, I think I will request the judgement. We might have to go through some mediation for the court to be satisfied we are settled but hopefully that will be easy. I am out of state, so best case scenario is that they will work with me on not having to come back and incur expenses, especially when everything has been worked out. I think they will. This court has been easy to work with so far, even reinstating our case when I was slow.

This is almost over!

Frankly, I rarely cry anymore and feel about a thousand times better (roughly, give or take a hundred ). I have some anxiety about doing the right thing, but have you guys and my family and friends to go to for feedback on that. Amazing, since two months ago I felt like my life was over.

Wish me strength this weekend. After this, it will be all downhill, but going back there is a huge trigger, even if I love things about that town. Had trouble sleeping last night.

Best pedicure on and a rocking outfit. Hugs xx

Thank you. Much needed.

Outfit picked out. In town. Overwhelmed at what I have to do in the next two and half days. Burst into tears when I walked into the apartment we shared together.

The cake topper for our wedding cake is sitting out on one of the end tables, for crying out loud.

This will get better, this will get better, this will get better. Someday I'm going to look at this as the best thing that ever happened to me.

Until then, I am making a huge pot of comfort food.

Happy thanksgiving everyone.

Luna,

I remember being where you are at. Today, I am remarried to a brilliant man who treats me the way I deserve to be treated. He loves me beyond anything I ever thought possible. By leaving the man who treated you so poorly, you have opened the possiblity to achieving everything you ever dreamed of and more! Where God closes a door, he opens a window. Stay the course.

Hi Brits_Brats,

Thank you. This is harder than I ever imagined it would be. If I had known, I would have paid another month's rent and someone's plane fare to come out and help me.

As it is, I'll push through. It will get done somehow, just might not be the smoothest.

Being here brings up all the criticisms my husband had for me and all the horrible feelings and fights. My stuff is such a mess. I was always working and then sold a house and downsized so fast. Or perhaps I'm slow. It doesn't matter.

Having someone love me and treat me right would be wonderful. I'll start by treating myself right...

Feeling guilty about taking all of the things we owned in our marriage away - and probably giving it away to charity because it's too much for me, instead of giving it to stbxH. Is that crazy?

He's an adult, correct? If he wanted the stuff he could have arranged something to collect them.

I burned most of my marital stuff in a bonfire on the night of my divorce!
Like the pagans of old I burned it and sent it into the heavens!

I am sitting in the now empty apartment that I worked so hard to make comfortable for us. This is the first move I've done on my own in four years. We painted, made shelves, cleaned and cleaned and cleaned. It hurts like hell to clean up this mess alone while he is out with someone new already. At least I had two really awesome moving men who stayed a few extra hours and tore everything down I hadn't gotten to and loaded the whole truck. I didn't bring a single box in.

I like this town. I like the water, the best bathes ever, but feel like if I stay here now, I'll always be looking out for him and feeling sad that I'm excluded. That cannot be healthy. Maybe if I had a reason to be here, but with my career, I can pretty much live anywhere so wanting to be here could be enough.

A bonfire sounds good. I'll save that for a day when I feel stronger. Right now, between the stress of moving, the holiday alone, only an hour and a half of sleep and being behind on stuff, I feel pretty awful and weak. I wanted more than anything else to have my old life back and that will never happen. I'm just trying to remember that our problems were was always somehow my fault. That can't possible be right, at least not all the time.

I feel like a little kid. I don't want to move.

I can only imagine how difficult it was but at least it is over now and you will never have to look at that place again so another checkmark on your Plan Luna.


It probably would not be healthy for you. Like you said always looking over your shoulder as to not run into him, that would be AWFUL just think about your Plan Luna and do what is best for that.


You are correct your problems were not all on you, you can take blame for whatever you did in the marriage but NEVER take blame for him having an A, that is ALL on him. He chose to go outside your marriage not you.


Again I cannot even imagine what you are going through but try to keep your chin up. So far your Plan Luna has been GREAT!!!!

The future is your priority Luna - keep your eyes on the prize....

True! And I realized *I* made that happen and I can do it again. It made me proud to look around and know that place was better for my having been there.

True. And there were freeloader/renter tendencies that were definitely not my fault. I want better.


Thank you!


Doing that. Sleep helped a lot. Everything in my life seems to go so much better these days. Everyone is so nice, things are working out. I feel like a cloud of doom has been lifted from my shoulders. I guess you don't realize how bad things have gotten until the toxic part has been removed. Yay for your help in getting me there.

The ironic part is, since exposure, I have never felt more supported and loved, even though my marriage is over.

You are doing great!!

Thank you MelodyLane!

Made to *my* place tonight. Stayed in a nice hotel along the way and really took care of myself. It felt great.

Movers come tomorrow. It will be a little stressful living out of boxes for a bit, but I feel free to purge away without having to worry about anyone else. It is all about Plan Luna now. What makes me happy. Woot!

Btw, I listed to an audio book, "Humor and Healing" by Bernie Siegel, while driving. I think it was the perfect thing for a spouse in Plan B. That got me out of that town, thinking good thoughts and laughing, instead of moping and sad.

I bet that was AWESOME!!!! I am jealous


And it is so deserved, it is time for it to be about you!!!!


Great news!!

It so was the best. And no blame, no eggshells, no irritation to deal with. Just a super comfy bed and time to do as I wanted and needed (stayed and wrote homework until checkout time at noon and then started the rest of the drive).

So I did it!!!!

All my stuff is crammed around me (800 square feet into 600). But I can see small piles here and there that I'll attack first. It feels manageable. I made the plan, and six weeks later, it is done! I am no longer hanging around that town like some sad kicked puppy begging to be let in out of the rain.

Going to call the court tomorrow to see what I need to do to get the final judgement. I'm hoping to get this done before the holidays so I can just forget about it and relax and enjoy my trip home to visit family and friends. Already have a fun show lined up with a girlfriend, and more friends then I'll have time to see.

Plus I get to stay at my mom's, and sleep in, and generally not be 'on' for a week or so. Did anyone see that Saturday Night Live skit Back Home Ballers? Yeah, there is a little of that to look forward to... (not really, but lots of love so it feels that way. )

Plan Luna!!!!!!!

Court called and instructions sent to IM. We both need to sign something and H has to go there in person to get the printout of the judgement and then file it after signed since we don't have lawyers to do that. He seems highly motivated to end this so hopefully he'll move fast and it will be wrapped by xmas vacation.

H is going in tomorrow to get it started.

That is GREAT news Luna!!!!!

Now all that is left is to keep working on you Plan Luna away

Thank you! Love that image.

Good.
Have you started to read Buyers Renters Freeloaders?

Thanks for the nudge. I just bought the kindle edition so I can read it on my phone and always have it with me.

You will really love this book! It was an eyeopener for me.

It has been so far. Definitely not a match with my soon to be ex on at least one of those five dimensions. It was challenging in that regard.

He went to the courthouse last week and I should get my papers to sign on Monday. If all goes well, it could be filed and done by as early as the end of next week. Feeling surprisingly okay with it. It is just so much more peaceful and happy on my own, makes it hard to regret this new beginning.

Once again great news and from someone whose life was over just a few short months ago

Haha! Thanks for the laugh, SC.

The funny thing is I sing all the time now. I haven't cried since being in that town. I actually wonder sometimes at how happy I am - much more than when I was in the relationship.

It was just the same for me. You will get substantially happier each week, each month too. I wondered at how happy I was early in Plan B. Today I am four times happier than that.

I 'll never be unhappily in love ever again and I doubt you will either.

I hope so. Even today, when I am getting the final paperwork notarized and sent back, I am only a little bit down, and that might even be from the quarter being over.

I am going to be single in less than two weeks. Holy cow!

Wow, your divorce will be finalized so quickly! In CA, it takes a minimum of 6 months, more like 9 months to 1 year!

Here in NY, it can take up to 10 years. Mine only took 6 years, I was lucky in that XH made a mistake and forgot to perfect one of his appeals.

Wow, ten years, that is crazy. A girlfriend in CA told me it took her two years - and they agreed on everything! What the what?

I should count my blessings this happened in a small town, in a small state. I mean, I could call the court clerk she'd look up my case by number and tell me what we needed to do. And so far the H has cooperated - he is probably thinking it's a miracle I'm cooperating. As long as it's done...

Yes crazy, we only got no fault divorce three years ago. But you are so right to get this done quickly, he is very likely to get cold feet. Best have the feet grow cold after you have his signature on the document :-)

Today has been harder than I thought it would be. I have two hours I could work, but between deadlines for school and THIS, I need a night taking it easy. A movie on my computer while sitting in bed (the TV isn't setup yet).

It has been stressful living out of boxes, that doesn't help. At least I got my much beloved desk setup and have had that comfort.

It's nice for you guys to say he'd get cold feet. To be honest, it has hurt a great deal that he is so adamant that this is what he wants. I'm going on blind faith on what you guys have said that there is better out there. Sometime I can see it clearly... other times, like tonight, it is just trust.

His brother did respond to my message on Facebook a while back and said that I had been a valued member of their family for five years and he understands why I was distancing myself (I told him for healing). That was nice. A lot nicer than most of the things the H said in the last six months.

So yes, I'm getting that signature and everything filed. I paid to send the paperwork overnight just to be sure he got it before the final day he could file it (next Tuesday). He can always change his mind later and decide to become a buyer with me, but I'm not holding my breath. I'll probably find a better match before that happens -at least I'm going to try.

omg... feeling the stress now. Sent the paper work back over night yesterday and my IM passed on the news and getting zero response from the other end. It's making me nervous. Just want this to be over so I can move on and date.

Don't saddle up that horse yet!
Let it rest in pasture for a while!

Haha, thanks.

My husband filed the papers in person today!! Most likely it will be approved and we will hear back in 1.5 to 2 weeks. That could be IT! Done. Finito. Fini!

Wow. What a roller coaster. Thank you for your help everyone. This isn't the ending I thought I wanted when I started this thread, but then again, I feel about a million times better than when I started this thread.

I didn't expect the debilitating amount of grief I am feeling today.

Guessing that is normal. It is a huge life event after all.

Of course, after a rough morning, my IM told me he contacted me about wanting some joint budgeting account back. No. He abandoned that account, and he abandoned me. He gets nothing.

Sorry things are rough today. It will get better.

What can you do for yourself on days like that? Always have a stock of goodies or something soothing and low key to do like favourite movies.

It is INCREDIBLE news that the legalaties are going smoothly. You are going to be OK in no time.

Don't forget though that even celebrated divorces bring an awful lot of grief with them. Take good care of yourself chickadee.

Ditto both of these things!!!! Take care of Luna remember Plan Luna away

Thanks guys. I have been asked out to lunch and for a long (platonic) weekend in an exotic country by two different guys, so that helps me feel some hope for the future. There are some 'lovers' out there for me, in the Dr. Harley sense (as opposed to dislikers, etc).

It is really hard to admit the dream is over. I was so committed. I could not conceive of giving up, even when I was in tears due to this or that.

I have good people in my life and am trying to cut myself some slack. This week I'll have time to do my more unpacking and perhaps it won't feel so rough being at home.

I've also decided I'm not moving again soon but am going to stand up the manager at the apartment complex about his smoke coming in my window. He lives there, he has to follow the same rules as the rest of us. Seemingly unrelated, but I am going to work on having better boundaries with everybody. Calm, but firm.

Rock on, as my friend T says.

Okay, finally. I have two more things to do for school but they aren't due until Friday so I can have most of the next three or four days to finally do more unpacking, sleep, take a bath and just try to be nice to myself.

It has been a long, hard quarter and I'm ready for it.

The best news is that my advisor for thesis hours was super understanding about my concentration challenges this quarter and is willing to work with me next quarter on *both* projects I want to do. Wow, people can be so nice. Thank goodness, because I really needed some kindness.

Laying in bed, waiting for my pizza to cook, and then it's off to unpacking the kitchen.

Glad to see you doing well, getting some time and help.

It's official. Judge signed the paperwork yesterday morning at 9:10 am. (Not sure why the clerk told me the time, but what the heck, thought I'd pass that on too.)

I am single. When things are calmer in the new year, I might start a thread in the dating section.

Take care. It's going to be an emotional thing for a while. We look forward to happy updates.

Congratulations.
I celebrated by having a bonfire and drinking a beer while burning everything my wife had given me.
How are you celebrating?

Well, my celebration is rather low key.

I got my bike tires pumped up and took my first bike ride to campus (so out of shape!) and got the hotels reserved for my traveling job days next month, as well as rent payments set up.

Dinner was a bag of my favorite chips and sour cream, possibly followed by pizza later (luckily weight is not an issue for me so this fall has been eat whatever it takes to get through the day).

So I'll probably have a glass of wine while reading scripts and writing feedback.

It doesn't sound like much, but my real celebrations is being kind to myself about not doing any unpacking today whatsoever. It's a good day.

I was married for 37048 hours, give or take an hour...

I also figured out how much an hour it cost me to have a husband! Not quite up to sharing that, sorry...

Do you like doing sums or something? Work out how much in percentage terms your hourly rate has just gone up by!

Do celebrate chicky. Its a whole new start.




Do be careful here. You're divorced, so do as you please, but men don't invite women on weekend breaks platonically. You also showed up on their radar while still going through the divorce. A state which some men view as a vulnerability they can profit from.

You probably are too, but you would know better than me. Better than they would too. They might also be fantastic guys, but do give them a wary eye before you conclude so.

I'm glad self care is on your list. A spa day is a very good way to treat yourself. That's very important.

Have you read Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders? That book is a fantastic book to read when you get ready to date.

Congratulations Luna, I know this is not what you initially wanted but since you changed your mind and went for it I am so happy for you for getting it over with and now you really can MOVE on.


I am sure that is an exciting feeling. Good Luck!!!!

Thanks! I do have second thoughts, but am trying to not think about it too much.

The bottom line is I can't have kids, and we blew our chance to have embryos for a surrogate because he wasn't willing to keep going. So now, realistically, he's going to have kids with someone else and it's over. It hurts now, but hopefully it will get better. Especially when I find someone who will really care about me.

In the meanwhile, or perhaps for the rest of my life, I never want to hear a thing about him again.

Indie,

I am definitely keeping a wary eye out on guys. The last thing I want to do is jump from the frying pan to the fire.

Good. You are a catch so be sure and take your time.

I was surprised I had so many 'platonic' friends and something tells me you will attract similar hopefuls.

Some see divorces as the dating equivalent of a shoe sale... Tell them you aren't a bargain basement half off deal!

Luna, don't torture yourself with stuff like this. Yuck!

Do NOT ever do that, you did what was best for you and your marriage even if it is not what you thought it would be.....

I got it now and realized while reading it that I've read it before. Somehow the lessons didn't sink in. I'm going to have to keep rereading it until they do!


Thank you Indiegirl.

I am NOT some bargain basement half off deal. I realize though that I am super vulnerable right now. I went to an eye exam and the guy helping me and the doctor were so nice that I felt much better. That scares me for two reasons: 1. How much abuse have I gotten used to that someone being nice gets my attention like that? and 2. I cannot get sucked in by the first nice guy.

Letting a guy a be nice = wonderful.
Letting boundaries down too fast and not doing due diligence = disaster in the making.

I think right now going slow, more than anything else, is going to help me make good decisions.


Okay. Time is limited, so all that time thinking about H is time wasted from plan Luna. No matter what happens in the future, I will be better served by taking care of myself. Right? Right.

So I definitely have some renter tendencies. I need to stop doing things I don't want to do. I worked that job this summer and I didn't want it and was miserable and it was fully in my power to have stuck by what I said originally - that I didn't want to work.

But I couldn't deal with the upset reaction of the H when I turned down work. So that, too, is something I need to work on. Ideally there wouldn't be an angry reaction, but even so, I need to be calm and have a clear idea of what makes me happy. I sacrificed way, way too much.

It's hard to see all your own mistakes.

Yes you are correct, however if we do not see them we cannot correct them, so this is a good thing really.

Sometimes life is just plain hard and if we don't care of ourselves along the way it is even harder............

Have you read buyers, renters and freeloaders yet?

One thing Dr H makes clear is that if you are the buyer with a renter or freeloader, you are going to get clobbered unless you submit to their ways of doing things. The person who cares less has most power.

I think I had some renter tendencies too. Interestingly, the true buyer will call it quits rather than get dragged into unworkable arrangements.

True commitment means having the courage to bail. An odd definition but there you go.

Like that definition of a buyer - no more sacrificing!

Ran some errands today, including getting the car checked. Everything was much easier than I thought it would be.

Few more things to do today, but not too bad.

Got rid of a box load of stuff at goodwill, including one of the few gifts H ever gave me (gave it away because I don't really want it, not just to get rid of it.) Felt freeing. I also treated myself and bought some furniture sliders so I can move my big sofas by myself and make my home comfy, instead of feeling helpless that it's a two person job and I'm single. Win for Luna!

Also read Bluebird's entire thread. You guys are great! And she did great! This place is inspiring. It is great to hear from people who improved their marriages dramatically or found new partners who treat them with much more care, or simply got away from uncaring partners. That is just what a person just starting their 'castle building' as Indie says, needs to hear.

Happy Holidays everyone.

Luna

I like to think of myself as the most selfish person on the planet.

10 years ago on a London bus, I sat in front of couple who were arguing about which stop was the closest to their destination. They were just bickering and bickering, that couple were so miserable with one another. I promised myself, in that moment, that I would never grow old with a partner that I had that kind of relationship with, I would rather be single. I was very clear that I would have either a romantic marriage or no marriage. I kept that promise to myself and always will.

Living well, that is great.

I came here to vent actually. I HATE my ex H so much!

He asked about some budgeting software account, I said I'd been using it and wanted to keep it. So he calls the company and changes the username, the part I wanted to keep, on the account without my permission.

I HATE HIM. Just move on, you awful man! Isn't it enough your school loans are paid for, I paid for the dream wedding you wanted, I paid for your to go to school while I worked in some flipping basement and then paid for two years worth of grad school applications and then, when it was all said and done, you want out (after I said I don't want to work anymore). And NOW YOU HAVE TO HAVE THIS ACCOUNT NAME?!?!?!

AGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

WHY DID I MARRY THIS MAN?!

Never again, ever, EVER, will I be with someone so selfish and uncaring. I don't care if I'm single for forty years.

End vent. I have some really important writing work I need to do FOR ME. That is the best way to move forward and I'm doing it. Now.

Luna.

Got my writing done and I am super proud of myself.

Also watched a pilot for a friend and got the requested feedback to him in less than three days, while super busy.

Plan Luna,
Plan Luna,
Plan Luna!

Now for my nine hours of sleep and my awesome day tomorrow.

Didn't do so well at the sleep, but I am managing to concentrate on my stuff and let go of the yuck. If I think of it all, it is in gratitude that I now can clearly let go, guilt free. Nothing to see here, move along, as they say...

The rest of the day is going to be spent making my apartment cosy and nice for me. One step at a time.

And some fancy cheese as a treat. Trying to remember to do those fun, nice for me things *everyday* for happiness and well being! Thank you guys for helping me to realize what keeping on track means - self care, boundaries, and no sacrificing. Love it.

Hope you had a good day yesterday, I am sure it wasn't an easy day but hopefully you did some things for Luna to make it a special day.

Happy New Year and a new start!!!!

Hi SC,

Thanks for checking in. There were a few minutes of sadness, but hasn't been too bad. It helps that I'm back in the midwest visiting family and friends. And a few friends that I didn't expect to asked about me, making sure I was doing okay over the holiday (including one phone call from a girlfriend who went through nearly the same thing and was super supportive in the worst time of it.)

So despite being the first holiday post D, I feel pretty loved and hopeful.

2015 is going to be a good year. I can just feel it.

Luna

Wonderful Luna! Go, go!

Good to hear, Luna. The support of friends and family improve one's perspective and help immensely in a crisis. Hope your holidays continue to be nice. In the final analysis, you are going to get through this with your dignity and your character. Sadly, your WH won't. He is the victim of the tragedy he is authoring.

Thank you guys. It feels pretty good. I am trying to just ignore what my H is going through, and am succeeding pretty well with the exception of my dreams. I need to keep Indie's advice in mind and chase him off in the next appearance, lol!

A girlfriend I had coffee with yesterday said I looked better than I had in a year. That is a real education on how bad things can be and you don't realize it. But at least I'm on the recovery side.

I thought this morning about making some New Years goals. That used to be one of my favorite things to do (usually career/interest oriented) and I haven't done that for years! I'm actually going to have some peace and room to think about what I want. Must not ever lose that space again, even as a couple.

Setting goals for the new year is a great idea! I remember when I began recovering from my wife's departure. I went jogging one spring morning and seeing the new blossoms on the copious Flowering Pear and Flowering Plum trees in our neighborhood. Nature's first green, to borrow from Frost, furnished me with renewed hope and inspiration.

There is a future and life is still beautiful. We just have to make the right choices and have faith.

This is the year for Luna all the way!!!!!!

Haha! Thank you! Had some anxiety last night but am feeling better this am. Sleep is the miracle medicine.

First day of the New Year has been alright. Thinking about buying a ring for myself (other hand), because I miss wearing one. Also thinking about redecorating and purging when I get home. Don't think I'm going to spend a lot of money on this now - maybe one or two things - but the first major job I get next is going to finance a makeover. Less moving truck/more new life.

Also, after one full year of not being able to find shoes that didn't make my feet hurt, I found not just one, but two pairs - and they are cute to boot. I think that is symbolic of something. What a wonderful difference to have happy feet.

Good shoes are very important.
in the future if you need help finding a pair a reputable shoe store should be able to properly fit you a pair of shoes.

You'd think, but the feet have always been a challenge and then add an injury from walking with a heavy backpack and non-supportive shoes and it was really hard.

In case you didn't realize it, Jedi Knight, your comment implies that I don't know how to find shoes, or go to reputable stores. I'm only telling you because I know you too are on the dating market and we can all improve our game.

This is awesome Luna, you sound better and better every day, I am so happy things worked out for the best. And buy that ring by golly


I know what you mean, mine is not that they make my feet hurt, I have big feet (size 10) but they are skinny and it is hard to find shoes that fit me right as well. When i do find a pair I get so excited (it's the small things you know )

Thanks SC. I hear you - I have skinny feet too, and now a bunion injury on top of it. What a challenge.

I looked at rings. Nothing clicked yet. It will happen.

It's hard listening to marriage builders radio when Dr. H talks about second marriages being more fragile than first, etc. Losing that chance to have a first marriage that sticks hurts. Oh well, another piece of advice was to not to spend time grieving. It won't take away from my efforts in putting in credits in someone else's love bank (at the moment anyhow), but it does interfere with building a new life.

Got a criticism from a teacher I respect about my typos and grammar errors on a recent submission. It was harsh. I cried in my office, then replied with a thank you and it won't happen again.

I am doing too much right now. That is a result of it.

It sounds like you are trying to do too much, just take a deep breath and let your life happen.

I don't know how long you were married but no matter you have been through an extremely tramatic experience that you need to heal from. You need self care for Luna for a long time.

Heck my marriage stayed together and it still took me about three years before I felt my true self again. Just take things one step at a time, you do not have to make this a sprint, it is a marathon.

I cannot give you advice about a second marriage but what I can tell you is that the things you have learned here and about yourself WILL make the next relationship better.

Yes, I think the reason second marriages don't work is because people tend to not learn. They blame their spouse for everything and take the same problems into the second marriage. You're the betrayed spouse, so you're not the one that gave up on your marriage because you blamed all your problems on your spouse. Your next marriage will not have two strikes against it the day you make your vows.

Why does this seem to be getting harder, not easier? Today worked on getting the new car registration done (say 'worked on' because the plate bolts are rusted on and are now soaking in penetrating oil). Moving the renters insurance and all that.

It is so painful to deconstruct all that we built together. I miss our life back there and just want it back. I just wish he would call and say he made a mistake and wants me back and to work on things.

Have not been strong the last few days. I haven't done anything stupid but I have thought about it.

Your brain is playing tricks on you. Our brains are hard wired to remember the good times more easily than the bad times.

Get a small hacksaw and cut off those rusty bolts. You don't need a man for that :-)

That's a great idea! Maybe I'll get some endorphins with the effort and feel a little better.

Kind of a bad brain trick when combined with WS rewriting history to be all bad, all the time. Sheesh.

The rollercoaster slows and the low days are further apart. They seem worse somehow as they are in contrast and isolation.

They tend to come like a smack out the blue. Always have some feel good self care on hand.

That is good to know. It does feel worse when having done good for weeks and then bam, can barely function for days. I realized I'm been trying to keep my xH happy for so long, that sometimes I'm at a loss without that task. And feeling pretty bad for not being able to do it successfully.

Sleep and less work and some warm bathes.

Hey Miss Luna,

Have not heard from you in a while and last time we did things were not going so well.

I hope things have improved and that you are just so busy on your Plan Luna that you do not have time to post to us

Hope school is going better too!!

Take Care!!!

Hi SC,

You are preceptive. I hit a bad spot in that I was too busy for self care and then went into a tail spin of obsessive thinking, guilt, anger, loneliness. But this intense schedule will be over in about 36 hours and I can sleep in and get back to my "fun" life.

I feel more hopeful today and am confident things will be better going forward than they were for the last four years. Now just to work on my own boundaries and to make sure I never allow myself to get into such a situation again. I am thinking about keeping a dating journal, with some strict rules in it and deal breakers, since I know I have some bad habits as far as being forgiving on behavior I shouldn't be. I need to be firm with myself on these issues until they are an ingrained habit. This is the only way I will find someone that wants to work on a truly mutual relationship and values me.

I've been listening to the radio show every day. That helps.

It also looks like I could work at the school next year if I want, and the other job is happy with me so far so this short term hardship will pay off in financial security going forward. So yay Luna for taking care of the money issues.

Well I am glad that you can at least notice what is going on and know what you need to do to get back on track.


I totally agree if you always do what you always done then nothing will change. That is why I came here for myself trying to figure out what to do about my daughter. For me anyway sometimes hearing it from others at least gets me thinking about �other ways� of doing things


I am glad about this too, they tell a lot of good things on there and in more detail than just on the website


That is always nice, money worries are a problem with a lot of people so getting yourself on the better end of them will help you in the long run for sure!!!!
Just remember to stick with your Plan Luna and do your self care things.

Hope you are doing well!!

Hi SC,

Things are going well. I'm so glad you contacted me to check in, and share that you are here in the same boat to try to do things differently.

I was coming home last night and realized that I was feeling sad and lonely (and really tired). So I need to make more time and effort to make plans with others. That will help. The new crew in my program is loud, and they chat together loads. It's weird, I get overwhelmed with that much chat, but it still feels lonely to feel on the outside, even if I'm not sure I'd want to be on the inside!! Moments like those are when the ex (his existence, even if not his actions) were such a comfort. It is so good to pay attention to those moments - now I feel empowered to make a change, rather than just feeling sad.

Slept 12 hours last night. I think I need to just plan on getting 10 hours a night for the foreseeable future.

Hope things are good with you SC. Have you been able to make a lot of changes from what you've learned here? What has been the biggest help? (If you don't mind sharing).

Luna

Things are going so much better with my DD. I now am worrying for different reasons but her self centeredness is improving so much. She started taking anti-depressants after the new guy started dating someone else and it makes me wonder if she has needed them for a long time. Depression is something that runs in both mine and my H's family. But she is at least thinking a little more before she acts which is such a GREAT improvement.

I would say the biggest help for me was to learn to communicate better with my H, I tended to hold a lot of things in that bothered me until I exploded with AOs and DJs and that did neither of us any good.

I would say for my H it would be learning that OS friendships are destroyers of relationships. And that he needs EPs that make ME feel comfortable not him.

We have always been pretty good with POJA so that one was not hard to do but some of the other things have been a challenge for sure.

But it took a LONG time, I was ready to give up for a long time because of his EPs more than anything.

It has been a little over 8 years now and I was fortune enough (I guess you could call it that) that my H's A was only short lived and he did not lie to me about it so I did not have that to deal with. And our marriage is better than it was before.

I can only imagine how difficult it has been for you but I am glad that you are feeling empowered, it is a lovely thing lol!!

We should always try to feel empowered to make changes.

I know I used to be such a quiet person and would let everyone walk all over me and one day I just said what the heck enough is enough and I have never looked back.

Wow, that is a great story. I'm so glad that sticking it out had a positive payoff. Thanks for sharing.


Lol, I am going to remember that! Perhaps that should be the new motto - "What the heck!"

On the plus side, I got a dinner invite from someone I am interested in knowing more. It won't work out because he's too far away on this trip, but it was nice to think that might happen in the future. Up to him I would say. In the meantime, I'm working on my stuff.

That is awesome news, I am sure it helped your self esteem just to know you still have it lol!!

And you are right it will come if just keep working on you and do not take second best ever again!!!!

Today was a rough day. Overly tired (known trigger), combined with wanting some more human contact than I'm getting in classes, combined with feeling left out of a party at school. A friend blew it off as a "Facebook thing", where a individual invites were not sent out, but since I can't see the Facebook page, it still feels hurtful. Especially since I spent the morning with the woman throwing the thing and went out of my way to help her! Oh well.

So I went grocery shopping and indulged in all sorts of good food, came home and updated my meet up profile, signed up for a local group, and gave myself a good pep talk. I started down the negative road but stopped myself - yes, the H did not value me, but a lot of that was *my* picking him and that can be changed. I will not pick like that again!!

On the plus side, I was exhausted since I had been up late last night, nervously putting off picking a play scene for the director to work through today on my piece for the spring. (I couldn't even look at the actors for the first read through - I was mortified at my own words.) But today, holy cow, it was amazing. What the director did was beyond amazing and I feel so inspired to rewrite the piece to improve it. And I actually liked (again) some of what was already there. So yay for that. There was also a film meeting where they were going over the costumes, set and production details for the movie (my script! ) that the school is shooting in early March. A dozen plus serious people, and me grinning like an idiot because I was so happy with the whole thing. The best part of that is I can be there, take credit, but don't have to do a lot of that work - or rather get to see the benefit of a lot of other talented people doing their thing and their work. So what a mix of a day. Super successful professionally, and feeling so low personally. It could be worse... it could be all low.

Early to bed is the best I can do today for a plan Luna way to take this one out.

Wow, all the crisis and hurt people coming to this board makes me really sad. You regulars are awesome to come here and help them.

I woke up and proactively came up with two nice things to do for others thanks to somehow here (SusieQ I think) mentioning that having the new found time to do that is one of the benefits of not being in a black hole relationship. That was a huge moral boost, and now have plans with girlfriends every night this weekend. Feeling blessed.

I am sure this did feel hurtful but may have not been intended that way. I know I personally am bad about things like that, I think someone already knows and then they find out and get upset with me for not telling them but I thought I did.


So true, now that you know that you DESERVE better you will pick better.


Well this was good and that is so important to have something that makes you feel good.