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This morning. She said I was getting belligerent in the e-mail exhange we had all yesterday, so she quit. I responded that I had been very focused and intentional to be polite and patient.
That came across to her as defensive, she said.
Thanks Given what you've been told today, what should be your response have been?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Yes, we're planning on being on Tuesday's show with Dr Harley Have the Harleys contacted you and set this up? That's wonderful! Is your wife agreeing to participate?
BW
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"Thank you for telling me. Help me understand why you're saying that and what I said or did so that I'll never do/say it again."
Is that what I have learned today?
Humbly,
Remedial Remark
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Yes, we're planning on being on Tuesday's show with Dr Harley Have the Harleys contacted you and set this up? That's wonderful! Is your wife agreeing to participate? Yes. and Yes. We're on for Tues.
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Given what you've been told today, what should be your response have been? "Thank you for telling me. Help me understand why you're saying that and what I said or did so that I'll never do/say it again." Is that what I have learned today? Humbly, Remedial Remark
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Not sure. I'll gladly pay for it. The issue is whether she'd participate or not. Is it something I'd benefit from doing alone and/or could do alone? There have programs at our church, for example, that they wouldn't allow me to participate without my spouse.
Thanks, Remark I think you'd do alot of good having a coach help you. And plus you get direct contact from Dr. Harley. Have you asked your DW about it?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Not sure. I'll gladly pay for it. The issue is whether she'd participate or not. Is it something I'd benefit from doing alone and/or could do alone? There have programs at our church, for example, that they wouldn't allow me to participate without my spouse.
Thanks, Remark I think you'd do alot of good having a coach help you. And plus you get direct contact from Dr. Harley. Have you asked your DW about it? Yes, but no response yet. Would the coach do just one half of the couple? Thanks
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Sugarcane,
I am sick to my stomach, which means I feel so ashamed of something I apparently do and yet I don't see and don't understand.
That's the kind of feedback I was looking for when I posted our conversation of yesterday. But, I had no idea I come across that belittling and condescending. I feel horrible that you would perceive that like she does.
I keep reading and re-reading your post.
Yes, we're planning on being on Tuesday's show with Dr Harley
Humbly, Remark
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"Thank you for telling me. Help me understand why you're saying that and what I said or did so that I'll never do/say it again."
Remark
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Yes, I understand. She defines her LBs no matter what I or anyone else think(s).
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Contact the Harley coaches and ask them to help you save your marriage. Sugarcane, What specific program are you referring to? The coaching center or the $945 package that has accountability partners? I'm in, but not sure which program to enroll in. (We have most of the Harley books, and have been through them.) Thank you, Remark
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Yes, we're planning on being on Tuesday's show with Dr Harley Have the Harleys contacted you and set this up? That's wonderful! Is your wife agreeing to participate? Yes, she is going to participate in the call Tuesday, but she's not interested in the coaching. Thanks for your advice, Remark
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Yes, we're planning on being on Tuesday's show with Dr Harley Have the Harleys contacted you and set this up? That's wonderful! Is your wife agreeing to participate? Yes, she is going to participate in the call Tuesday, but she's not interested in the coaching. Thanks for your advice, Remark If she changes her mind, I would sign up for the $945 program. You need all the help you can get.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Contact the Harley coaches and ask them to help you save your marriage. Sugarcane, What specific program are you referring to? The coaching center or the $945 package that has accountability partners? I'm in, but not sure which program to enroll in. (We have most of the Harley books, and have been through them.) Thank you, Remark I think you should first talk to Dr H on Tuesday. He could have a remarkable effect on your wife. If he can persuade her to give the marriage another chance, then as Mel says, the accountability programme is invaluable. You'll get a coach who is in close supervision with Dr H to take you through the weekly lessons. You can also write directly to Dr H on the private forum here, and if you are in a crisis at any time, your coach will put you in direct contact with him. I think it's only worth signing up to the accountability course if your wife agrees to work on it with you. The whole point of the course is that you do the lessons together, and address each other's issues in a controlled environment with a coach. I can't see the benefit in signing up to it on your own. If your wife still refuses to participate in building the marriage after she speaks to Dr H, I would contact the telephone coaching centre for one or two phone sessions with either Steve Harley or Jennifer Harley Chalmers. They will coach you to behave in ways that should have a positive effect on your wife, and they are used to coaching only one spouse in the marriage.
BW
Married 1989
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M: OK. I don�t think it is a spouses� job to �tell the other what to do�, anyway. That would be akin to selfish demands, I think. They can express their wishes, their LB�s, and their EN�s, and their opinions. Right? It�s all a balance. I can�t place the entire responsibility of my happiness on you, and vice versa. We can express our desires from our spouses. Yet, both spouses have a responsibility to the other to please them as best as possible. I know I�ve failed at that for 20 years. Does that make sense? Remark, do you believe it is a selfish demand to ask your spouse to stop doing something? I can�t place the entire responsibility of my happiness on you, and vice versa. It is your responsibility to make your wife happy. That is why she got married.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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M: OK. I don�t think it is a spouses� job to �tell the other what to do�, anyway. That would be akin to selfish demands, I think. They can express their wishes, their LB�s, and their EN�s, and their opinions. Right? It�s all a balance. I can�t place the entire responsibility of my happiness on you, and vice versa. We can express our desires from our spouses. Yet, both spouses have a responsibility to the other to please them as best as possible. I know I�ve failed at that for 20 years. Does that make sense? Remark, do you believe it is a selfish demand to ask your spouse to stop doing something? Well, doesn't it depend on the activity and/or context somewhat? If I had to answer in one word, I'd say no.
Context is everything, though.
The context of this question in our conversation was in regard to control issues I or she might have, which we have discussed often and I don't have a good handle on.
It sure would NOT be a selfish demand to ask/tell me NOT to do a specific LB, like defensive behavior, or any offensive behavior. I clearly understand that.
Forgetting my wife for a moment, it gets a little less clear to me when I attempt to reconcile an independent behavior like going to church (which I've done all my life) or bible study (which we both did for most of our marriage), with Dr Harley's position that these would be Independent Behaviors and should stop. (She no longer goes to church or bible study.) Also, I've been counseled to keep doing those activities. That is where my confusion lies as I struggled with that issue.
I can�t place the entire responsibility of my happiness on you, and vice versa. It is your responsibility to make your wife happy. That is why she got married. Yes, I totally agree. That is my job. Context of why I said that is that, I thought that no human being is able to fulfill all the desires of their spouse, and that's where faith in Jesus fills the void. And I have analyzed my possible dependent personality-related issues.
It IS my responsibility to make my spouse as happy as I possibly can, meet her EN's to the best of my abilities.
Thanks, Remark
Last edited by Remark; 11/23/14 01:34 PM.
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Sugarcane,
That makes sense to me as well.
Thanks, Remark
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[Forgetting my wife for a moment, it gets a little less clear to me when I attempt to reconcile an independent behavior like going to church (which I've done all my life) or bible study (which we both did for most of our marriage), with Dr Harley's position that these would be Independent Behaviors and should stop. (She no longer goes to church or bible study.) Also, I've been counseled to keep doing those activities. That is where my confusion lies as I struggled with that issue. It is a selfish demand to try and force you to DO something. It is not a selfish demand to ask you to STOP doing something that makes her unhappy. Asking you to stop going to church is not a selfish demand. The principle of the POJA is "never do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse. " It is a violation of the POJA and a love buster [independent behavior] to do things that make your spouse unhappy. WHO counseled you to do things that make your wife unhappy?? Originally Posted By: Remark
Context of why I said that is that, I thought that no human being is able to fulfill all the desires of their spouse, and that's where faith in Jesus fills the void. And I have analyzed my possible dependent personality-related issues.
It IS my responsibility to make my spouse as happy as I possibly can, meet her EN's to the best of my abilities.
Thanks, Remark It is your job to fulfill all of your wife's needs so that she is happy and in love. If you fail in a certain area, that needs to change. If "the best of your ability" is not good enough, then your abilities need to be changed. The goal here is RAISE THE BAR, not lower her expectations.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[Yes, I totally agree. That is my job. Context of why I said that is that, I thought that no human being is able to fulfill all the desires of their spouse, and that's where faith in Jesus fills the void. And I have analyzed my possible dependent personality-related issues. What is a dependent personality related issue?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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