Do not feel guilty for saying no because it would be reckless and irresponsible to bring this into your marriage. your marriage has to come first.

Brainstorm with your wife about how her Meemaw can be cared for - without having to move her into your home. The solution will need to be something you are both enthusiastic about. Just because someone wants to move in with family doesn't mean it MUST happen that way.

I would definitely pray. And it's good to be open to being persuaded by your spouse. But I would be honest with your wife about your reluctance.

Also, outside of this context, I would start bringing up the issue of undivided attention time, regularly. Start inviting her to do things with you, daily. Tell her you aren't getting enough time with her. Tell her you love her and want to spend more time alone with her - then when you get that time, give her your undivided attention.

Problems like this need to be kept on the front burner. That means you bring up the problem you are facing, regularly - without blaming her or telling her she is the problem.

Thanks for the replies. It seems the son of my wife's Meemaw (my wife's step dad) is having conversation with his mom and they may be looking to move her to their state and possibly home.

Markos... I try to always be open to being persuaded by my wife and thank you for pointing this out as a good reminder!

My wife does have views that can challenge me views so I welcome them. Actually the only area that I struggle with "being persuaded" is being ok with IB or what I consider is weak OS boundaries as I find them so damaging to me emotionally. Everything else I am very, very open to persuasion.


So let's say we only get 3 to 10 hours a week depending on whether we get a date night in which usually gives 4 to 6 hours. So when we get 10 it means we only have 4 to 6 hours from other non-date night times. Do I bring up the problem every day? week? month?

Because the counselor is only a "partial (50%)" MB coach (which is not good to me, but I can't make my wife discontinue or change)... he coaches against bringing the same thing up constantly.

At that moment we were talking specifically about my request for her to not spend personal time with child's coach and limiting it to specific issues with child or specific issues with swim team since I sense he takes a liking to her and they have spent more personal time together than makes me comfortable in the past.

Counselor asked me how many times should I complain? I said... I was answering in general (not this specific instance)... from my understanding every time she does something that is hurtful or makes me uncomfortable... or I disagree with... let her know...drop it... and move on. And at same time open for POJA for ways to approach that are a win / win.

But in the case of the coach I have only had to make the request 1 time in quite a while and that was just, because she had spent 15 minutes with him and I didn't know what it was about (wife wasn't being open about her time with him) so I restated the request I had made several months back. I got the sense he thought I was making this same request over and over and I am not.

He indicated saying something every time something happened or too often may be detrimental. He seems to be basing this on her already resistance to anything that she perceived negative to her... Or she not feeling accepted and loved for her she is.

I told him if we had practice every day and she spent personal time with him every day then I felt I would make request every day. I can certainly love her for being a gregarious, playful, fun and friendly person... BUT... there are very specific behaviors... mainly with OS that make me uncomfortable and request she alter that behavior. But it seems she (and maybe counselor) think I am asking her to not be who God made her to be which one cannot argue against if that is her view... all I can do is make request and let her know how something makes me feel.

I don't want to become a nag so maybe it is in the delivery... and to be honest it isn't all the time by no means.

For example I don't see her touching on guys all the time as most of the time when she is around men is at her office so I cannot witness this to even make a request. I just know she has made it clear she sees no problem with it... and many times in the past she did it in front of me and some now for the few times we are with other OS friends. But it is something that does make me uncomfortable and when it happens I do let her know. But her response usually is I am being unrealistic or jealous... and of course with her not doing MB she doesn't see a reason to stop if I am the unrealistic one. She says she is working on it and that is hopeful.

Here is an example of something that made me a little uncomfortable... This weekend we ate lunch with friends (married couple). Both the husband and wife gravitate to my wife... heck most everyone does due to her personality. My wife can talk non-stop at times and it is hard for me to enter the conversation without feeling like i am being rude and interrupting her. Something I have requested my wife recognize and allow me to be part of the conversation and she has stated she will be more conscious of this.

Anyway... The husband was holding their 1 year old and my wife starts leaning in playing with the baby... making faces... leaning in to kiss baby... and just being playful. Nothing about playing with baby bothers me one bit. However since the baby was being held by father my wife is literally a couple of inches from the father's face and very much in his space basically leaning on father's side as she leans in to baby. If you didn't see the baby you may think they were about to kiss or she was the wife. Since I wouldn't get that close in with another woman and would feel like I am violating the persons space it does make me uncomfortable when my wife does it. This time I didn't say anything to her as I felt like I would just be complaining about something else that seems so trivial to her. I chose not to say anything, because I wanted the time to go well and didn't want her feeling "nagged".

So I guess I am wondering how to share a complaint or request when wife isn't really into MB... and may just perceive any complaint as negative and be irritated by it? I feel it doesn't matter how gentle and non-threatening I share the complaint... my wife generally shows irritation or frustration.

I'm a few days behind but looking at the Schedule you posted - Could you get more UA time in the mornings? Also is your Men's Bible Study taking up what could be more UA time?

MSM, let the counselor know that complaints are good for marriage and that a complaint should be brought up until the problem is resolved. The answer to his question is that the complaint should be brought up EVERY TIME.

A complaint is like getting an NSF notice from the bank. It might be unpleasant, but the alternative is worse. In this case, your wife's relationship with the coach is destructive and dangerous so it should be kept on the front burner until it is resolved.

If your "counselor" needs training in this area, I would give him this article:

Complaining in Marriage

Frankly, I would not go to a counselor who didn't know how to fix a marriage, but it is your marriage to lose, not mine. I just hope you aren't paying him money to wreck your marriage.


I think what has happened here is that you have settled for a bad situation. You know the relationship is bad for your marriage and have settled. A better solution would be for her to quit her position and never have anything to do with him.


Continuing the offensive behavior would be detrimental to your marriage. That is why offensive behavior should be stopped immediately. Your counselor doesn't know this for some reason. He should be persuading her to stop offensive behavior.


The counselor is detrimental to your marriage. He is validating and cementing marriage wrecking behaviors.

Is there a reason why you would go to a counselor who is destructive to your marriage? He has now made it 100x harder for you to EVER fix your marriage...

MSM, just so you know, most marriage counselors don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages. They have an 84% failure rate and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. It is obvious your counselor has no earthly idea what he is doing and is actually harming your marriage. He is validating marriage wrecking behavior that will destroy your marriage. 60% of marriages experience affairs and your counselor is encouraging the kind of behavior that CAUSES affairs. Is that the kind of "professional" advice you want to get?

Your marriage would be better off if you took this time to go out to dinner or get his/hers pedicures. At least the nail techs won't destroy your marriage.

here

I would try marriage coaching with Marriage Builders. You are in serious trouble and unless she changes her behavior, this will not improve. You need a coach/counselor who will persuade her to stop her marriage wrecking behaviors. Can you sign up for the Marriage Builders online course? Most couples who sign up have one reluctant spouse and this is what MB specializes in. They use persuasion to influence the reluctant spouse to change their behavior.

Can you talk her into that? At the very least, I would strongly suggest you STOP going to this marriage counselor. He is hurting your marriage and has made it much harder to get your wife to change her behavior.

I am slowly watching our love banks build... or at least I am hoping I am building hers based on her resistance lessening. Mine love bank is up and down. The hope is I can get her love bank high enough to where she will be willing to do it. I think it is possible and I am working towards this!

In regards to counselor... I CANNOT MAKE HER STOP GOING TO HIM. I could certainly stop, but then I would have no clue what he is sharing and couldn't challenge him during our one on one sessions when needed. In my one on one time I am able to challenge him. During couple session... a number of times he has confirmed something from MB as being very accurate if I ask about a specific concept in a way where I know we have already discussed and he agrees.

He tells me almost every other session that he finds Harley extremely practical... and in front of wife. But he only coaches part of it... He is clearly not an MB coach / counselor. Yes... I know Harley says you need it all to work. And in my one on one time I challenge anything that doesn't fit Harley and push him during our individual time and tell him when I disagree.

In our couple time I have to be careful to not push into an area where he may himself challenge a Harley concept or at least put limits on it. For example he shared with me individually that he couldn't see POJA always leading to enthusiastic agreement. I think part of the issue is he knows the concepts in general, but not in detail. For example POJA "may" just end up in nothing being done. So in this case would both people be enthusiastic... no not really as someone didn't get something they wanted, BUT presumably you are both enthusiastic of following POJA knowing you may have something that goes to default of doing nothing and not getting a solution. (Type A vs Type B resentment). But POJA to me encourages the push for win / win... even if there are times you may do nothing. It leads to be creative and wanting to care for one another.

So maybe he is saying that you don't 100% of the time come out with an enthusiastic agreement and arguing that it is never perfect. I remember simply asking him... so POJA may not lead to a 100% always enthusiastic agreement... so for the few times you end up with the default of doing nothing... do you just throw out POJA? I told him I couldn't find a more effective way to consider your spouse and have a win / win. He said no he wouldn't throw it out at all... just didn't believe it lead to 100% enthusiastic... and as of yet he has not "taught" POJA.

So he thinks POJA is good, but doesn't see it as always the best way. That sometimes you compromise... which of course goes against MB.

Another example is UA. He sees the value and recommends it... BUT he clearly thought 15 hours a week may be unrealistic depending on kids and so on. He would not say don't have that time... just he found most married couples he dealt with thought 15 was too difficult with kids ( or at least one would say it was not reasonable) so he would try to get them to get to at least 8 to 10 which most were willing or thought was doable. I can see if he has unwilling partners and trying to get them to commit to something and at least getting them to start somewhere... but his own view was it may be unrealistic which really bothered me. This was the one area he did speak about in front of wife which I found damaging, because she thinks it is unrealistic. I just hope that as I continue to build the love bank she will become more OPEN to concepts and see that it is the MB concepts themselves that are helping me to be a better husband.

SO... I know he is NOT MB counselor, BUT I cannot make my wife quit seeing him and she has made it clear that she was not going to start over with anyone else. My only hope is to get her to agree to online MB with coaching hopefully in the near future.

Yes... I believe if we had Harley himself from the get go we would be well on our way to happier marriage... OR she would have simply left... unwilling to follow MB... and feel she lives under too many "rules" or has to "think" too much and it should just be easy.

Right now we are going through Emotional Needs questionnaires and we are only meeting once every 2 weeks now. I am taking the opportunity to see if she will read the section on website / book of the emotional need we are discussing. I believe she is open to this so hopefully this will lead to very specific MB "wording" she will be open to since counselor has us going through it... and maybe open doors for other. I just have to be cautious and not try to educate or making her feel forced at all. Just ask her if she is willing to read about the emotional need that we just went over.

Sorry this got long... stopping here.

I can't make her stop going and switch to MB... I am slowly working to build love bank and hope and pray she will do online coaching with me. I see some positives heading in this direction.

Thanks for the links... very good!

But you can decline to waste time and money on a destructive route. It won't ever get her involved in MB.

See my posts to pm18 this morning.

Good that you recognize that. Nobody is suggesting that you make her stop going to him.


Useless - you don't win your wife back by winning debates with her or with counselors.

All you are doing is dignifying and validating the counselor route.

Don't be a broken record, Sacred. Just quit going to the guy. And be cheerful about it.


I would suggest you see Steve Harley alone a couple times and see what he can offer as far as getting her on board, and then attempt to get her to agree to sign up for the seminar.

I suspect the main person we are going to have to work on changing is you. Steve can start that even without your wife's participation.

I don't have time to read such a long post however, you are wasting your time and are validating HIM by going to him. I would tell your wife he is a crackpot and you don't agree with him.

Your counselor confirmed that something from MB was accurate? Big deal. As if he even has any earthly idea how to save a marriage.

You are hurting your marriage by going there.

Agree. Steve won't destroy your marriage. He will coach you in ways to bring your wife on board.

Your "counselor" hasn't the slightest idea what he is doing and is damaging your marriage.

One of the great things about MB is you stop any attempt to control your spouse's actions or enforce agreements. This means you don't AO, DJ or IB.

You know you've really cracked the program when you stop allowing enforced agreements upon you. This means saying no! I am not doing that! With as much respect and cheerfulness as you can muster.

The 'doing nothing' part of MB when PoJA is not achieved is a crucial part of the program. If you do nothing, instead of blindly following the most stubborn spouse, then suddenly it is in both persons' interests to find a proper solution.

As long as you submit meekly to her solution though, she has no reason to change tack or consider you at all.

Doing nothing is better than doing damage!

Remember too, she doesn't have to embrace MB at all. All she has to do is realise you will neither submit to false one-vote solutions or make her do so either.

Et voila - if you can get that message over you are half way to PoJA without even needing to pay anyone!

In other words, he doesn't know HOW to teach couples to reach sound decisions. He believes in compromise, which is win/lose. Dr Harley teaches win/win.


Doesn't understand that 15 hours of UA time is critical to sustaining the romantic love in marriage. Did you know that Dr Harley, when in private practice, would refuse to counsel any couple who wouldn't commit to this step? Couples who place their marriage first, find ways to get this time. We have couples who have SEVEN children who do this because they understand their marriage is the most important thing in their lives.


Why would she be open to concepts that a marriage counselor has SHOT DOWN? See, she will never be open to it since being out with you is one of the last things she would want to do. And that will always be the case as long as she is not in love. She will not be in love UNTIL you follow the policy of UA.

Like I said earlier, this MC has no earthly idea how to save marriages.

STOP going to bad marriage counselors just because your wife told you to.

Don't argue with her about it. Just stop going. With a smile on your face.

Offer to take her to Olive Garden instead, or whatever her favorite restaurant is. It will be a lot better for your marriage. If she declines, whatever you do, don't go to counseling. Find another restaurant. Find a movie. Take her shopping. Get a pedicure together.

See how all of those options will make love bank deposits? Love bank deposits are your secret weapon. Your plan is to become irresistible, and this is how you do it.

Quit doing what your wife tells you to do!

And be polite, pleasant, and cheerful about it!

I tried several marriage counselors, all PHD's and highly regarded. They made our situation worse. If I discovered MB earlier and if my husband had one session with Steve Harley, I believe it may have changed our course of destruction. It's not too late for you. Try to impress upon your wife to give Steve ONE TRY. If Steve doesn't impress her, she lost nothing but the one time cost. I had one session with him over the phone, but it was just me. He told me things no other counselor did and I knew right then he was the only one who truly "gets it".