I do have one question about this post you made on my H's thread. What could possibly be the value to Marcos in finding out 8mos into the program that you were having an EA? Is it, "Wow, I guess she really meant it when she said she was unhappy." Or, "Great, now I get to redirect some of the pressure on me and focus on the splinter in her eye instead!" Clearly, in 8 mos, he had not addressed your complaints/needs, and it didn't change his responsibility to do so in any way if he still wanted to save the M. With his obvious negligence over the previous 8mos, it seems he would have been much better served to invest his energy in focusing on the plank in his own eye rather that searching for splinters in yours. Perhaps then he would have been successful and the EA never would have happened.

It would seem that if your concern was my potential for having an EA, you would have instead directed your EA suggestions to me, in regards to securing my boundaries and such, like Brainhurts did. I could have answered your questions about my transparency (and my H's lack thereof.) Instead, you went directly to my H and told him to start snooping, claiming red flags, suggesting a possible A partner, countering his dismissal of an EA. In light of the fact that I am not having an EA, your suggestion will simply distract him from addressing the problems that are creating the vulnerability, to which he seems to be having a very difficult time even without the distraction.

Even so, I don't know why you are even posting here and wasting our time since you say you are "done." If you are done, then be DONE. Why would anyone help someone who doesn't want to be helped? That is a waste of the valuable time of volunteers. Do you think Prisca has time to help someone who doesn't WANT to be helped? She has 7 children and she home schools them.

That's just it. I don't have pisspoor boundaries, my H does.

Correction, the weekend seminar might have been hosted by a different program. The workbooks we have are from the first HNHN seminar, rather than from the second one as I thought.

That's the biggest bunch of bull I have ever heard.
And very wayward.

Yet you blamed markos above for Prisca's poor boundaries. That is my point.

Who put on the HNHN seminar? Where was this?

You are entitled to you opinion. It still doesn't change the facts.

Who put on the HNHN seminar? Where was this?

I'm confused now, though. Do you want me to participate or not?

But her opinion is the truth. The fault of the EA was Prica's, not Markos.

My point is that this was not a Harley program or a Dr Harley endorsed program. Many churches use his books and he fully supports that, but most people take his material and put their own spin on it. And many times, they are great, but they are not a substitute for Dr. Harley's programs, where he oversees the lessons and the coaching progress over the years time. I am not trying to diminish them, but you can't say you have been through his programs. You have been through a church's program who used his material.

Of course, as long as you stop saying you are "done" and won't do anything. If that is the case, though, please don't waste our valuable time.

Are you willing to go through Dr Harley's course now? I suspect the reason Dr Harley told your husband no is because you refused to do anything.

I don't know what it is that you're wanting me to do?

[I know it was not put together by our church. It was presented by an outside group that came in. I won't claim that my memory from 20 years ago is so good that I could pick Dr. Harley out of a line-up. However, I thought it was a great program/presentation and I was personally able to apply it quite well as a result. If it's important that we take it out of the line-up as a qualifier, fine. There's still the matter that Dr. Harley himself is currently telling my H NOT to sign up for coaching. (I can send you a copy/quote of his specific response to him if you also have concerns about that.)

I don't know what it is that you're wanting me to do?

Stop fighting. Can you do that? Is that clear enough to understand?

Very.

So what would it look like when he clearly doesn't abide by the POJA? I've taken on the approach of simply not saying anything from the get-go to avoid the inevitable argument, but that approach was criticized here. Today I tried to state a complaint and got an argument back from my H. Eventually I just dropped it. Yesterday when we attempted to discuss the toilet issue, he completely ignore what I said as if I didn't even say it, so I reverted back to "whatever you want" in order to avoid an argument. Today, he told me he thought we had applied the POJA.

I do have one question about this post you made on my H's thread. What could possibly be the value to Marcos in finding out 8mos into the program that! you were having an EA?

Is it, "Wow, I guess she really meant it when she said she was unhappy." Or, "Great, now I get to redirect some of the pressure on me and focus on the splinter in her eye instead!"

Clearly, in 8 mos, he had not addressed your complaints/needs, and it didn't change his responsibility to do so in any way if he still wanted to save the M. With his obvious negligence over the previous 8mos, it seems he would have been much better served to invest his energy in focusing on the plank in his own eye rather that searching for splinters in yours. Perhaps then he would have been successful and the EA never would have happened.

Honestly, I don't care if it was put on by Santa Claus. My point is that it wasn't put on by Dr. Harley and wasn't endorsed by him.

I don't doubt Dr H. told your H not to sign up. Didn't you INSIST that your husband not sign up because you are "done?" In that case, there would be no reason to sign up. They only take couples.

Stop brawling.

Very.

So what would it look like when he clearly doesn't abide by the POJA?

I don't expect you both to be experts at the POJA right out of the gate, but you shouldn't resort to "whatever you want" and you shouldn't fight.

Really? You, a BS, has to ask what value a man has in finding out his wife is having an EA? REALLY?

Bull. And you know it. What a crummy thing to say about a man who found out his wife was in love with someone else.

Also bull.
Markos could have been a complete crumb about meeting my EN and it would not have mattered as far as me having an affair. Poor boundaries cause affairs, not neglect or abuse. If you believe otherwise, you are at a higher risk for an affair than I originally thought and your husband should be even more diligent about keeping tabs on you. You have no clue how affairs start if you are willing to lay any blame on the BS.

This seems to be important to you but I don't know what else I can do except to take it off the list of qualifiers, which I've already done. Is there something else you're looking for here?

I don't doubt Dr H. told your H not to sign up. Didn't you INSIST that your husband not sign up because you are "done?" In that case, there would be no reason to sign up. They only take couples.

Feel free to throw in on the question I asked Marcos. I'd appreciate anyone's suggestion as I feel like I've already tried it from all angles, short of becoming a Stepford wife.

"It bothers me when you do that."

Edited to add: Also, post about it here.

"It bothers me when you do that."

Edited to add: Also, post about it here.