I have most definitely made it clear over the years (before marriage and after) what I am comfortable with. I don't think there is any way possible she does not know how I feel. The question is whether she will decide to show extraordinary care for our marriage and spouse.

Her current stance is I am insecure or unrealistic (but she will make adjustments). I can only continue to make requests / complaints WHEN I see it. And since I can't see her interaction at work where she works closely with about 5 other men there is actually much less in regards to OS relationships to make a request or complaint about.

I ask questions about work and if I hear something that makes me uncomfortable I may ask further, but unless there is something that she shares or I find out through snooping then I don't make any requests / complaints. This is where I am stuck in the... have to just wait and see... while I snoop. I don't think going to her to repeat my desires on her interaction with OS at work without evidence showing her doing otherwise is what I should do.

The hardest emotional struggle is with knowing she doesn't agree, doesn't see a problem with that type of behavior and knowing she just sees me as insecure or unrealistic.

There are 2 actively visible areas of concern for me in regards to OS relationships.

1) The swim coach: I have made request for coach interaction to be just for daughter and and swim team business (which is about to end). It does appear she is doing this... but I can't be there 100% of the time so it is possible she only limits interaction when I am around.

2) Restaurant Manager: My wife frequents her favorite restaurant probably once a week either by herself or with a female coworker. She goes there enough to where the OS manager now checks on her every time she is there (if he sees her). When I go with her and he does come to table he doesn't really even acknowledge me... he addresses my wife as if I am not even there. And my wife seems happy to see him. As a man if I was in his role I would clearly acknowledge the husband and not just wife. She knows it makes me uncomfortable, but I have not made request she stop going. My wife returns from soccer practice with son saying the restaurant manager was there as his son is on our son's team. She didn't try to hide it or anything and not saying anything at all is going on, but I am now on alert as there is more opportunity for a friendship to start to build. She said she spoke with him a few minutes and that was it. My wife knows my concern and knows I am uncomfortable with his attention towards her... especially when he seems to ignore me when I am there with her.

I am trying to determine when this becomes a threat. Let me use an example. I frequent a Smoothie type of business where the husband and wife run the store. There are times the wife is there without husband and visa-versa. I speak to each one of them when I am there. I have learned over time a little about their business, how they began the business, and so on. When it is wife just there I only talk basic stuff, usually asking where her husband is and basic stuff about the day. This is usually just a few minutes while waiting for product. So I am not sure there is a risk there as the interaction is minimal and the subject matter is superficial with only a few minutes in store. So I am trying to weigh that with Manager... in that she goes actually less to that restaurant as I do to Smoothie shop. I don't know where I am going with this... I am a very strong boundaries person... I feel I have very strong boundaries with couple when I go to smoothie shop... whether it is wife and other coworkers there or her husband. Not sure why, but situation with manager just does make me uncomfortable. I think it would be different if it was a husband / wife team and they both checked on her as customer. Just something I see in how he interacts with wife... even with me there. Sorry rambling... but thinking this through.

I know all I can do is work MB as best I can alone and hope that does some "SELLING" to her, but who else could sell it to her?

I would agree and I can say I am clearly not "in love" with my wife yet either... but do embrace MB. Hoping sustained lack of LB and meeting EN builds it for her. But she has to be willing to meet my EN's or it will be unlikely I will fall back "in love".

You cannot control how the restaurant manager behaves. Are you enthusiastic about her continuing to go? If you aren't, then tell her that. You don't have to explain it any further than "It bothers me that you go there."

Marko's posted something that gets me confused with my thinking on this.

I think I get a little confused on this as at times the first thought in my head is "if it makes me uncomfortable or hurts then stop"

Perhaps the quote from Markos is more about requesting your wife DO something... where my request is to STOP doing something like OS friendships. But then again it seems like OS friendships is a whole other special category. I don't think it is completely different to where there is never POJA about it, but hard for me to see POJA if relationship with OS is making spouse uncomfortable or hurt. Gets a little confusing her for me. Probably need to do some re-reading.

I am wrestling with what my request would be on this.

In regards to anti-depressants... I started taking 5-htp (a precursor to serotonin which some studies have shown just as effective as SSRI's for minor to medium depression. I am on my third day and I do feel the edge has definitely been cut. Meaning I don't feel like I could just cry at any moment and I feel more in control of my thoughts... or at least if my thoughts think back on recent hurt from wife it is less emotional in my head. Time will tell though as I know for full effect (if any) can take up to 7 days to be fully realized with this.

Markos... you had mentioned the anti-depressants so wanted to update to let everyone know what I am taking and how it is effecting me thus far. If it doesn't do the job I will look to Wellbutrin which is an NDRI and uses different methodology to assist in depression.

I have gotten some info on Dr Chalmers. Rate being $225 per 50 minutes. And as stated before they do not file insurance and sounds unlikely my own insurance would cover it. I simply won't be able to afford many sessions. She doesn't allow discount for multiple sessions like Steve Harley does. His are 5 sessions for $1025.00 or 10 sessions for $1850.00. No matter how I look at it... I may not be able to afford this, but feel I could greatly benefit from direct guidance.

Another thought would be to do the coaching and online seminar knowing it will be just me (maybe for long time) and I can then post questions to Dr Harley in private forum.

Your adherence is not going to sell it to her. People buy things when there is a perceived benefit. I am a salesperson for a Fortune 500 company. When I want to sell something to my customer, I have to figure out HOW my product will benefit them. Otherwise, they are not going to buy it from me.

I would agree and I can say I am clearly not "in love" with my wife yet either... but do embrace MB. Hoping sustained lack of LB and meeting EN builds it for her. But she has to be willing to meet my EN's or it will be unlikely I will fall back "in love". [/quote]

She would fall in love with you if you follow a very specific formula:

here

I don't have any time to read the rest of your post so if you want me to read that, please condense to 3-4 sentences. Thanks!

That is exactly RIGHT. She needs to be enthusiastic to DO something, but enthusiasm is not required to STOP doing something.


What is confusing you? Stopping OS friendships is in the same category as other marriage wrecking behavior. If you want to apply the POJA, then the rule would be: NEVER DO ANYTHING WITHOUT THE ENTHUSIASTIC AGREEMENT OF YOUR SPOUSE. Meaning she should not do anything without your agreement. Of course you need to be respectful when you ask your spouse to stop, but it doesn't matter if they are enthusiastic.

I could be wrong but I don't think Dr Harley allows ppl to do the seminar without their spouse because he won't let anyone in the forum until they have BOTH watched all of his videos.

Who do you think could be the most influential with your wife? Steve or Dr Chalmers? What if you went to 3-5 sessions with the goal of persuading your wife to go into the online course?

Not sure... I guess because my wife is more of a free spirit, less boundaries, less guides where I do have a free spirit side I have strong boundaries and believe in good guidelines.

So I guess what pops in my head are things in general (not really the OS friendships as that seems like a no brainer in protecting marriage)... so things in general that I will be less than enthusiastic doing or having done... where she may want to DO and lead to a lot of type B resentment. But I think this is where diligent POJA would help avoid consistent type B resentment and avoid feeling controlled.

Feeling controlled... that's what I don't want my wife to feel like. I can see how many people look at POJA at first and say... hey you are just going to control me.

I think that is my confusion... feeling like I might be controlling when there is something that makes me uncomfortable or hurts me.

Maybe I could get one or two appointments by myself and invite her in to give feedback on me and see if Steve or Dr Chalmers could bring her more into the "converstation" sort of speak and maybe lead to online course.

My marriage is worth the cost... just coming up with the money. Just wish there was a way to get insurance to cover it... or part of it.

It is not controlling to ask your spouse to STOP doing something that hurts you. It is controlling to FORCE your spouse to endure something or do something against their will. So her having OS friendships and forcing you to endure them is very controlling.


Don't FORCE her to do anything, such as mow the lawn. That would be "controlling." It is not controlling to ask her to stop beating you.

I think that is a great idea. Who do you think would have an easier time getting through to her? She likes men better than women, doesn't she?

I have a feeling she would lean more towards Steve. It is hard to say how she may react. Not even sure she would join in as she has said in the past she had no desire to switch counselors.

And since the cost of counseling with Steve or Dr Chalmers (even if it was just for me) has to be discussed with my wife as well as it is our money and I can't just go spending it without her ok on it as well. That would be a love buster if I did that without her ok right?

Well, you have much bigger problems than love busters right now. Why don't you try and sell her on the idea that you need to get another counselor for you? Then you can invite her to speak to him..

I did it anyway.

It made me angry, too. But I got over it.

Are you referring to OS relationships or something else you can point out?

What are your marriage problems?

As regards the restaurant manager, in your shoes I would interrupt him and say how you don't think you've met, and give your name and ask his. This might sound weird given you've met lots, but it will send a very definite message. Be pleasant, but confident and take over.

Then make sure you address him and dominate the conversation in future whenever he comes over again.

Ideally your wife would just not go there again. However if not it could well be worth making your presence felt. I also think proactive protectiveness never fails to make love bank deposits with women.

Just a thought.