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I've been reading the forums for a while but this is my first time posting. I've been married for nearly 11 years and we have two children, ages 8 and 6.
Last year my husband confessed that he had just ended an almost five-year long EA/PA with a woman who was his co-worker for part of that time. It was a devastating shock but I finally understood why, for the last several years, he had been completely absent, neglectful, selfish and uninterested in me. I asked him to stay at his parents' for the next two months while we continued to talk it through. It felt like a nightmare, but I saw immediate, positive changes in his behavior that breathed life into our marriage again.
He told me everything and answered all of my questions. I called the other woman's husband and told him. I told my parents, siblings and close friends. He told his parents in my presence and also confessed to other family members and a few of his close friends. We spoke together with one of our pastors and several members of our church. He is a completely different man now--considerate, attentive, affectionate and a good father. It's been an absolute miracle, truly.
I feel that we have been recovering very well, all things considered, but there are a few key issues for which I need guidance. I'll start with these two:
-- All we've told our kids is that Daddy made some bad decisions and had to stay somewhere else while we worked it out. Our son, especially, has not been satisfied by that answer and I feel that we should tell them the whole truth. My husband says maybe someday but they're too young now. Everyone else agrees with him. It feels wrong not to them but it also feels wrong to tell them without his agreement at this point. What should I do?
-- After I exposed to the OW's husband she told him and many others that my husband had manipulated and abused her--that she was his victim, trapped in the affair. I heard this from her husband, who believed her, and through the grapevine from one other person. I never responded to those lies but it continues to bother me that she minimized her own blame to the point that her husband actually felt sorry for her. I've thought of writing a letter to him but thus far have chosen to let it go, and am assuming that the vital policy of no contact for life applies here. Am I correct?
Thank you all in advance for your insights...
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-- All we've told our kids is that Daddy made some bad decisions and had to stay somewhere else while we worked it out. Our son, especially, has not been satisfied by that answer and I feel that we should tell them the whole truth. My husband says maybe someday but they're too young now. Everyone else agrees with him. It feels wrong not to them but it also feels wrong to tell them without his agreement at this point. What should I do? Any children that are over age 4 should be told the truth. Lying to children about the source of tension in your home teaches them to be dishonest and causes enormous moral confusion. Many children conclude they are the source of the problem. Your children should be told by you ALONE without forewarning your husband. You should tell him afterwards. Dr. Harley on telling the children:
Quote:The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.
An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.
here
Quote:Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
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A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.
Quote:The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.here
Quote:2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)
Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).
here
Quote:My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.
The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.
The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).
Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.
It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside. -- After I exposed to the OW's husband she told him and many others that my husband had manipulated and abused her--that she was his victim, trapped in the affair. I heard this from her husband, who believed her, and through the grapevine from one other person. I never responded to those lies but it continues to bother me that she minimized her own blame to the point that her husband actually felt sorry for her. I've thought of writing a letter to him but thus far have chosen to let it go, and am assuming that the vital policy of no contact for life applies here. Am I correct? Just let it go. Wayward wives RARELY take blame and thier husbands feel safer imagining that their poor wittle wife was a victim of an evil predator. The big concern here is continued contact between the OW and your H. If you live close to these people or if there is any chance of running into them, you will be in big trouble because your H will be in a state of perpetual withdrawal. If you live close by you absolultey need to move to a new town. The same thing with his job. Do they work together? Will they EVER see one another? [/quote]
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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My husband says maybe someday but they're too young now. Everyone else agrees with him. Everyone else does not have experience or expertise in these situations. Nor is it their ox getting gored. It is easy to foster such opinions when it does not affect you.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You have done an outstanding job in killing this affair and I want to applaud you. I would caution you about the temptation to drop the ball now. The hard work has not begun. If you don't create a passionate, romantic marriage, you will end up with a crippled version of the pre-affair marriage that is more vulnerable to an affair that before the affair. If you don't create a happy marriage, your resentment will grow year after year. You don't have to be like that.
Please pick up the book Surviving an Affair and follow the program in the book to the letter. It has a workbook that goes with it: Five Steps to Romantic Love that they sell cheap on this website. Another great free resource is the MB radio show. You can get the free app and listen to the show any time.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
_________________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thank you so much for your responses, ML! Just to be clear, you think I should tell the children even though the affair has been over for a year and a half? He will be furious with me if I tell them. We've had heated discussions about this on several occasions and he feels that my wanting to tell them is a way to punish him and that it will hurt them. I've told him that it's not at all about punishing him--I've chosen to stay with him and rebuild our love! But I confess that when we've discussed it I have usually felt angry and shown it in my demeanor and tone... I'm terrified that if I tell them he will be so hurt and angry, and it will set us back  .
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No, they have not worked together for a few years now. They worked in the same place for the first three years of the affair and then my husband changed jobs. The OW and her H live in another town about 20-30 minutes from ours. We have no connections to them...
Also, I wish I could say that I helped to kill the affair but it basically "died a natural death" and then he confessed it to me. He could have taken it to his grave. I was clueless while it was going on...
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Thank you so much for your responses, ML! Just to be clear, you think I should tell the children even though the affair has been over for a year and a half? He will be furious with me if I tell them. We've had heated discussions about this on several occasions and he feels that my wanting to tell them is a way to punish him and that it will hurt them. I've told him that it's not at all about punishing him--I've chosen to stay with him and rebuild our love! But I confess that when we've discussed it I have usually felt angry and shown it in my demeanor and tone... I'm terrified that if I tell them he will be so hurt and angry, and it will set us back . It will actually help your marriage when he sees how much his affair affected his family. It will help him avoid this in the future. You outline one of the main reasons Dr Harley does not recommend telling your spouse beforehand, it just causes fights. My personal observation is that the marriages that are not open with the kids tend to do worse becuse the wayward spouse remains slightly foggy. Fog is result of continued deceit. And that is the case here. It helps no one to keep it a secret. NO ONE. I would tell the kids the full story and then encourage them to speak to their father. Yes, he will be angry at first but it will wear off and your marirage will be in a better place afterwards. Keep in mind that anger over exposure is a sign of the FOG so if he gets angry about this, I would wonder if he wasn't still a little foggy. This may bust up his fog. And if he has an angry outburst over this, your marriage has bigger problems than this.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Also, I wish I could say that I helped to kill the affair but it basically "died a natural death" and then he confessed it to me. He could have taken it to his grave. I was clueless while it was going on... The fact that you were clueless indicates that you didn't have an integrated marriage. Has that changed?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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p.s. you should also tell your children the full name of the OW and show them her picture. They need to know all this. Your children can help hold him accountabe in case she slithers back into your lives.
And just think, not telling them leaves them vulnerable to the OW. If you died, who is to stop her from coming to your funeral and pursuing your husband? If he dies, what will stop her from coming to your husbands funeral?
If you think that is far fetched, my father's "35 year mistress" came to my fathers funeral and I even put her in his obit as his "friend." I had NO IDEA she had been his mistress for 35 years!! She had been presented to me as some woman who became his "friend" in his latter years.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Melody, thanks so much again for taking the time to help me with this. I am very grateful...
I see the wisdom and truth in what you're saying about exposing to my kids--although thinking about it has got my stomach in knots! One more question-- I've read a little about POJA and IB and it seems like my telling them when he disapproves would be very blatant IB and violate POJA. But I'm guessing that sometimes the value of honesty supersedes the value of POJA?
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In response to the checklist you provided, everything has been done except for changing his phone number. Pretty big one. I do have total access to his phone--no passwords anymore--but he has been reluctant to change his number. He has finally said he will do it this month when our cell phone plan has to be renewed.
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Melody, thanks so much again for taking the time to help me with this. I am very grateful...
I see the wisdom and truth in what you're saying about exposing to my kids--although thinking about it has got my stomach in knots! One more question-- I've read a little about POJA and IB and it seems like my telling them when he disapproves would be very blatant IB and violate POJA. But I'm guessing that sometimes the value of honesty supersedes the value of POJA? The policy of joint agreement does not apply to affairs or abuse. And don't let your stomach get into knots. If he gets angry with you, it will be very inappropriate and that is something that should not be tolerated. Your children have every right to know the truth about their family and you are not obliged to help him hide the truth just so he can present a false front. He has no legitimate reason to be angry.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Telling your children the truth falls under the category of extraordinary precautions as I posted above.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You are very correct that our marriage was not at all integrated before his confession. We led very separate lives and it was extremely lonely. He was "working" all the time, until ridiculous hours, and wasn't really present even when he was at home. That has completely changed. I would say that our marriage is very integrated now. He's home for dinner every night, we talk all the time and spend nearly all of our leisure time together. It's been a wonderful change!
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In response to the checklist you provided, everything has been done except for changing his phone number. Pretty big one. I do have total access to his phone--no passwords anymore--but he has been reluctant to change his number. He has finally said he will do it this month when our cell phone plan has to be renewed. Do you have spyware on his phone and computer? What about a GPS?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You are very correct that our marriage was not at all integrated before his confession. We led very separate lives and it was extremely lonely. He was "working" all the time, until ridiculous hours, and wasn't really present even when he was at home. That has completely changed. I would say that our marriage is very integrated now. He's home for dinner every night, we talk all the time and spend nearly all of our leisure time together. It's been a wonderful change! That is great to hear!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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No I do not. Is there a certain brand or service you'd suggest? I'm not a tech-savvy person... Also, I'm a stay-at-home mom and share a checking account with him. If it would cost me anything how do I hide that from him??
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No I do not. Is there a certain brand or service you'd suggest? I'm not a tech-savvy person... Also, I'm a stay-at-home mom and share a checking account with him. If it would cost me anything how do I hide that from him?? You can buy a pre paid credit card at walmart and pay on that. Or put it on another credit card so he doesn't see it come out of your bank account. I would go take a look on the Operation investigate forum for some ideas. What kind of phone does he have?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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We've had heated discussions about this on several occasions and he feels that my wanting to tell them is a way to punish him and that it will hurt them. You telling the truth to them is not hurting them. HIS AFFAIR is what hurt them. It has already hurt them in many ways, they just don't exactly know why. They know the pain but not the reason. It is hurtful and deceitful to NOT tell them the truth. You said yourself your son does not buy what you are selling. He has already identified the fact that his parents are not being honest with him.
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