No, to other games, like an MLB game or such.

she would make plans to go with the kids, and if he found out about it and want to come along as well, she would not have a ticket for him and tell him (in front of the kids) that she and the kids didn't want him along.

If his children knew this (or he didn't speak up) then why would they not want have a relationship with him? I have to head out but this still seems odd.

It just seems to me that they had been poisoned against him.

His xW was also poisoning his family against him until they all caught on to it.

As I mentioned earlier, though, I hope to meet his daughter soon and can get a sense of it then.

So he has one minor child at home with his XW?

What about the older children? They still won't have a relationship with him? Not even through text or email? They aren't living with their mom, correct?

Have his family told you about this?

I have a former BW friend whose ex is with a new partner. She sees her ex working to all the same patterns with this new girl, but says nothing. Neither do his family.

However her daughters have heard them discussing how my friend has 'poisoned' them.

Actually nothing could be further from the truth. She never exposed initially (long time ago) and because children tend to blame themselves when that happens, the eldest is very clingy with the dad who left in confusing circumstances. The littlest one is very normal with him.

I have two other friends, both adults with wayward mothers. Both mothers repeatedly told them growing up that their fathers were violent. One knew about the affair and did not credit it. The other did not, was confused, but was never able to see any violence in his father.

It's fairly difficult to poison a child's mind against its parent. Oh it can happen. I just think it is claimed far more often than it really happens.

If you think about the history of your own past marriage, would ex's future fiance would be better off getting the history from you, or from a 3rd party?

Dr. Harley discussed this on MBR, and said something like: The point in calling the ex-wife herself is to SEEK OUT the opposing view and look at the picture intelligently. Of course she will have a bone to pick with your husband, but there will still be truth in her perspective. This would be an opportunity to measure what he says against what she tells you directly. It is also an opportunity to see how he handles the concept of trust being built through verification.

I think you should slow down a bit but I know that it's not so easy... I'm not sure what should you do...

I don't have any advice but the topic of going to the ex for an evaluation is fascinating to me.

For us BSes I'd think someone going to the fogged out wayward ex would yield accusations of being "controlling" or "manipulative" since this is the wayward script. And I could easily see where the family of the wayward would accuse the BS of trying to "poison" them against the WS simply for having exposed them to the truth, which they chose to ignore.

I'll admit, it's a little scary to me. My WW gave me a laundry list of complaints the day she asked to separate, most of which she'd never communicated to me or even had communicated the opposite to me in the past. I have no idea what she'd say to someone else about me, truly. Any of her ex boyfriends before we met were basically persona non grata to her, scum of the earth if you heard her side of it. I have to think I'm part of that club of terrible people in her mind now.

So I kinda don't get the point of talking to an ex. You could talk to most anyone on either side of the families in my situation, and even any the friends my wife and I had when we were married, and get probably a vastly different take than my wife would offer, simply because of the fog.

I trust Dr. Harley but this is a little hard to understand for me.

You would talk to them, but not with the intention of swallowing what they say whole.

You would dismiss most of it, but would keep your eyes/ears peeled for anything that struck you as something you would be able to observe yourself.

I know my ex would have lots of things to say about me and some of them would even be true. I wouldn't be in the slightest concerned about his telling anyone about my temper for example, because it can be seen how I've worked on it.

You know, that's a very good point. I get it now. Even if they are negative, there's the contrast effect. Even a broken clock is right twice a day and I've certainly got things my WW would say that are true and I need to work on.

Any how-to kind of advice? This isn't a common thing, and is sure to stir the pot in many cases I would think.

I think my guy and I are serious enough that I would like to talk to his XW. What kinds of things do you ask? "I'm getting serious with your XH, and he's around my kids quite a bit, what should I know going into this?" Do you call, or arrange a meeting? Doesn't this rock the boat, how do you approach it with your partner?

Or do you wait until like you're engaged or something?

You do not want to even introduce him to your children until you have passed the 6 month mark and there have been absolutely no red flags.

Too fast is a red flag of itself.

Then it might be time for the 6 month conversation where you both talk about where this relationship might go. Explain that talking to his ex/meeting his children would help you to understand more about him which would be good for you both.

Offer to introduce him to your children/talk to your ex too

LW that makes a ton of sense. One day this stuff will get obvious to me too.

Sunny, where'd you go?

I would email dr Harley with your question.
I would like to hear his answer.

Hi NED,

I'm still here. :-) Thanks for checking in!

My relationship with this guy is still going. At this point, I'm seriously considering that he could be "THE" one. I've had a chance to see him react to a number of different challenges/ conflicts, and every time he handles them very beautifully so I fall a little bit more in love with him.

That said, I've set a timeline of not taking the relationship further until July, giving another 6 months before that next conversation.

We compliment each other so well, so completely. Even others are saying we are just mirror versions of each other. Also, I know all of the characteristics of Steubenville that didn't work, and the new guy hits the opposite out of the ball park every time.

I've been able to meet his minor daughter (as advised by MB posters), who is delightful and it is clear that their relationship is well towards being repaired. We have plans for me to meet his other children soon, and that will be telling, also.

In hearing about their marriage, I can pick up that the LB on his side was educating and trying to motivate his xW, who reacted by withdrawing and being even less productive. I've met her and she has vastly less energy, motivation and just general life knowledge than he does so she could very well have been quite intimidated by all of his "educating".

Although, it has been my perception that he was trying so hard not to be obnoxious - just trying to find a solution that would work for both of them in the most refrained way possible. I can see his very careful and thoughtful approach play out in how he deals with other conflicts, so I believe that this will either not be an LB displayed toward me (since I am opposite of her in this regard - high energy, highly competent in many life skills as well as in my career, someone who can always find that last burst of adrenaline to get any job done no matter how impossible, etc.).

If he does try to educate me (no indications of that whatsoever), I'm very self confident and can nicely put a stop to that. In short, I feel we are intellectual equals and I'm not intimidated that he might know more than me in some areas, and I balance that out by knowing more than him in some other areas.

His children prove out his perception of xW and the problems he struggled with in their marriage. Specifically, the one I met lacks the desire to try very hard at anything, and easily quits things. So, when he described how his wife and son are both that way, I can see the truth of that reflecting in his daughter with my own eyes, as well.

So, the short story is that everything he has represented is appearing to be genuine.

I'm still giving it time, and will be back in 6 months with an update and for further advice/confirmation.

However, in the meantime, Steubenville has grown bitterly resentful and has informed me (in front of our youngest child, DS14) that he is going to do take me back to court. He'll be alleging some kind of motherly neglect to either reduce his child support payments or to eliminate my half of custody. He is actively alienating the kids against me, somewhat successfully with DD16 and DD15, by instigating that they give him information about me and by using them as his own personal "your mother was nuts" therapist.

Given that I had no attorney representation (but he did), and that all of the correspondence shows he said what he would pay and my response was always "ok", I think he'd have a hard time telling a judge that our divorce settlement was unfair to him.

Are you going to be seeing a lawyer?

He hasn't taken an action yet to which I can respond (in a legal sense).

However, should he do so, I will very fully and forcefully respond. I don't know what he's thinking given that some very serious dirt in his past would throw questions on whether HE would be the best parent.

In a way, I think him taking this will be good for me (as it relates to him) because it will permanently squelch any idea of his that he can exercise any power over me in my life. However, it is not good for the children whatsoever. It will take a long time to repair the damage done with two of my teens (the girls).

I know he is jealous that I have the beautiful dream home we built and he is in a small bi-level. However, my income potential can support it and his can't, so he offered that I should stay in it and he should move. The equity in the house was factored into the balance of what he walked away with (his larger 401(k)s), so he didn't "give" me any breaks to leave me with the house.

He has also run himself into more debt than he can service, buying cars (yes plural) that he didn't need and $20k in furniture as well as much other frivolous spending. He is having to tap into his 401(k) just to meet monthly ends. I am being frugal and am not in a financial bind or cash flow problem. He resents that he is and has scathingly referenced his "premium child support" both to me and to the kids at times, as if because he is paying me "premium child support" he can dictate what goes on in my life and/or home.

He became this very bitter and nasty, alienating person as soon as I started seeing the man discussed in this thread. I honestly did not foresee or expect that he would behave this way.

Stay on top of documenting anything that he is doing by trying to alienate the children. Those situations can escalate out of control.

Thanks for the update, Sunny. Glad that things are going well with your new guy.

And good luck to your exWH if he thinks he can overturn a divorce settlement because he's an idiot. HIs lawyer will likely tell him he is SOL. Until there is anything filed, I would ignore him. Why are you in contact with him? I would fix that pronto especially if he's acting ugly. You don't need to hear his whining or threats. Let him stew.

I agree. Why don't you have an IM?