I didn't need an IM at all.

I went through a six month period of so many once-in-a-lifetime trials piled on top of each other starting in Feb of 2014 that after that was all done, I had a renewed faith in God's providence while having purged out any bitterness I had felt (there wasn't time and I had bigger problems). So, after that was over, I had no need for distance or plan B.

However, I think it would be good for Steubenville to be in Plan B, so I may initiate it after all. The problem is he pumps the kids for extended conversations about me, so there is little I can do to stop that other than to ask the kids not to talk to him about me. They each respond in their own way to that. DD15 (the one he lost his cool with on Thanksgiving) is back to being his very best friend after I did not give her permission to order pizza in on January 2. So she called him and he gave her his credit card # to order in pizza (I do not believe he knew I had already said no). She has ignored me and been very short with me ever since.

When I asked her to not have conversations with her dad about me, she burst out the he "was her only comfort!" - she was specifically referring to her "broken" relationship with me, and needing comfort from it. All of this because I said no to pizza.
Prior to that, she wasn't talking to him (because of the Thanksgiving incident) until several days before Jan 2 he invited her to go on an international trip with him which bribed her into being best friends with him again.

I can see a decline in my children's well being and need to put together a strategy to stop it. Being the bigger person isn't stopping the problem.

Thank you Brainhurts. Good advice. I will start doing that.

I'm happy to let him stew. What he does doesn't bother me one bit, and I don't care if he sues me. If I get served with a lawsuit, I'll give the person serving it a tip!

I just worry about the kids.

You may not be able to stop it, Sunny. It's not about being the bigger person even. (ex)WSs will use their children to cause conflict and drama when they don't get there way. About the only thing you can do is keep your boundaries and guide your children as much as possible. That your children are teens is challenging alone...getting mad over pizza...well there ya go. Accept that Steubenville will play the Disneyland Dad to bribe them...that is typical.

I am not in Plan B nor have an IM but I have hardly any contact with my exWH. He is not welcome in my home. Even if you don't use an IM or Plan B him with NC, I would limit your contact and communication with him as much as possible. There is nothing that can't be communicated via email or text.

Understood. I would still cut him out as much as possible.

Most of us who are in Plan B/limited contact with the ex "don't care" about them either but want to maintain peace in the household and not subject ourselves and especially our kids to unnecessary drama.

I would invite you to read the Parallel Parenting in Plan B link in my signature line. It is designed to prevent EXACTLY this:



From the PP/PB thread:


You said that your children are not doing well so I really hope that you will finally consider Plan B.

My children have NEVER witness an exchange between their father and I since our separation and don't really have any idea of the ongoing court battles that have been going on off and on over the last 3 years (at least the youngest doesn't). They are both doing EXTREMELY well.

Sunny, thanks for the update, it great hearing you happy

I took a parenting class last year, that focused on ways to engage with and encourage your teens. If you have HNHN for Parents, there is a great chapter in there on teaching kids thoughtfulness. My daughter is a loner by nature, but she has really benefited from the extended focus on FC time. Both of us have

Jedi, I will write to Dr. Harley. Is there anything I should listen to first, what he's already said? Anything I should add? He's been a great resource so far. The situations are the same with my nephew and my xh but I have a lot more peace about both those situations.

I so agree with this. Please reread this excellent advice.

Parallel Parenting is the way to go. It has been a godsend, and I haven't talked or seen my WXH in over 7 years. My kids are very good and well adjusted kids and that counts going through those tumultuous teen years.

Hi everyone,

As promised, here is an update on my growing relationship:

This man continues to be everything I could have dreamed of.

He is very humble to resolve differences of opinion or differences of perspective; he is diligent to ensure anything he perceives is immediately addressed and resolved. In most cases, I am the one who had the "off" perception of something to bring to his attention; he has had very few to bring to mine. The way we relate to each other in these cases can't even really be called "conflicts"; he eagerly pursues a productive resolution of perspective that's best for both of us.

He is thrilled with the idea of 15 hours of UA per week in a marriage; when I sent him the UA link he couldn't have been more excited. He said THAT is what he so desired, even craved in his first marriage but it was refused. He could hardly believe his great fortune with me that I was the one initiating and pursuing the idea. He has reminded me many times about how I have promised UA time in a marriage and he is looking forward to holding me to it! :-)

We are so in tune with the recreational activities we enjoy (now together), but we also have the BEST of times while doing them. We enjoy each other's dialog and humor, each other's interests (we share the vast majority of them), and just all around, each other's company and personality.

He expresses an appetite similar to mine (insatiable!) for affection and keeping company with one another - doing things together.

I couldn't imagine being happier with anyone else on this earth than with him, or more compatible, or more in love with, so I've accepted his proposal for marriage with great joy and excitement.

We are planning to be married in September or October.

My teenage daughters (16, 17) are still struggling with the idea that I am so SO very happy with someone who is not their daddy. They don't mind that we are dating but they are sad about what never was and never can be with their dad/mom. They see how deeply we care for each other, how seamlessly and happily we work together and just enjoy being in each other's presence, and they have said they are sad they couldn't have witnessed that type of relationship between their dad and I.

So, we are going to initially continue with the same pattern we have now (him visiting for Friday and Saturday, and I will start visiting him on Wednesday) until the girls express a readiness for a fuller integration. Worst case scenario, we would continue this for two years when my 16 year old graduates from high school.

I know Dr. Harley has allowed for this setup in step families in the past, but I do not believe we will need to do this for the entire two years. I believe my daughters' will acclimate at some point. However, we're prepared to do so for the sake of the girls if we need to.

All of my sons, including my youngest one at home (15) express strong support and welcome him warmly into our family. Four of my siblings have met him (and their spouses) and all of them provide their strong and unreserved positive feedback as to their impression of his character, person and compatibility with me.

This is so very different from my first M, where everyone I knew was exhorting me to not marry Steubenville - even people who only knew me casually still went out of their way to strongly discourage me from marrying him. Not a single person in my life - not one - was happy for me that I was marrying him. No one in my life has expresses any reservations about this relationship or him. They are very excited for us and our decision to move forward with marriage.

The obvious question is why not just wait for two years? The answer is we simply can't. It is time for our relationship to progress to this next level. We are ready to "buy".

Wait, Dr. Harley suggests living apart and "visiting" for second marriages with children? You will only see your husband on the weekend and on Wednesdays when you are married? I am just trying to clarify.

I don't want to rain on your parade, and I'm in no position to give advice, but aren't you concerned that you're getting married while still in the infatuation stage?

Not in every case, just in some cases.

Here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5008b_qa.html


Initially or in the worst case scenario, for two years.

NWB77, I would hate to marry someone I wasn't infatuated with?

I recognize the initial stages of our relationship as infatuation - which at first concerned me about how fast it was hitting me, thus this thread - but it has since matured much deeper than that.

It's hard to describe the difference between the initial flash and the deeply felt/established connection, because in a sense the words of the sensations might sound similar, but when that pivot happens, it's something that is deeply felt and just hard to find adequate words for.

Wouldn't this be putting your children's interests above your own? My mom got remarried when I was a teenager and with the exception of not attending their wedding, it was clear to me that they were getting married and there wasn't much I could do about it. I lived with them part time (I had a car by then and mostly lived with my dad, who kept the house I grew up in, but would spend about 30% of my mom and step dad). They have problems in their marriage now, but at the time, I accepted the reality of their marriage and he was a decent step-dad (supportive, but didn't overstep his bounds with a teenager). The bigger problem was with my mom trying to force a closer relationship than we had. But over time, I grew fond of him.

I wasn't thrilled when either of my parents got remarried, but I also understood there was nothing I could do about it and that I was going to be in college soon, etc.

Just as an aside, it seems like the worst age for step kids would be like the 8-13 range. It seems like it would be easier to blend when they are either younger or older...but I have no clue. It isn't something I've faced.

The girls have said that if a larger integration occurs into their daily lives they will go live with their dad instead of living with me as they do now.

I am not willing to give up the girls when we can simply organize our lives temporarily this way instead.

Your experience is really interesting. You were already living with your dad before your mom remarried, though, right?

I have tried not to force any relationship and have given the girls a lot of space when they were rude to the man I was dating while adjusting to the idea. Initially they were both enthusiastic about my dating, and once the dating was under way for a while, they began to experience the conflicting emotions and for several months were rude him.

They aren't rude anymore and act normal/cordial....but they still feel conflicted and sad about never getting to experience seeing their dad in a relationship with me like the one I enjoy now.

Like I said, I have zero experience with this. It's just that personally, I would be worried that the initial rush of PEA would be masking problems that I would see if my brain weren't telling me to deliberately ignore them. We aren't products of our emotions, though, so if you can take a step back and objectively evaluate him and your relationship I assume you'll be fine.

It is what Dr. Harley recommends in some blended families. Blending families is not easy, and for the marriage to survive, this is sometimes needed.

I would ask Dr. Harley to look over your plan and guide you through this, Sunnytimes.


My sisters were 2 and 4 when my mom married my dad. Their marriage was filled with trauma and drama until my sisters moved out when they were 11 and 13 to go live with their dad.

Blending families is not easy, no matter how young the kids are.

I think that once the children's disciplinary expectations are set (what they will or will not be disciplined for) it is particularly hard to integrate stepfamilies because the other spouse has set disciplinary expectations differently for his/her kids.

This is one area we had some discussions on - we had disciplined/expected differently of our kids - and came to the conclusion that the best the other spouse could be for step kids is a mentor as the kids allow.

And, our choice to move forward was with a decision that the current state of either's kids is not untenable to the other because, by mutual agreement, the status quo for each will continue. We have both made that decision that the status quo is fine, and we can both happily live with it, and even more especially for just the temporary duration.

This isn't a generic conclusion, but just specific to our own minor children because they are 15, 16, 16 and 17.

It is a little too late for a disciplinary sea change in their lives.