What can be done to make it a possibility?

I'm having a difficult time answering that, so I'm going to lay out a typical weekday.

I still experience extra pain in the morning from my mastectomy surgeries, so my husband has taken on the morning responsibilities with the kids while I deal with my issues. I'm very thankful for that. He gets up, wakes the older kids, showers, keeps them on track, eats, makes lunches, and shoves them out the door for school before he leaves for work. I shower and rarely eat breakfast because I end up too busy with our little one.

Our 2yo has preschool twice a week for 3 hours, but I have her full-time otherwise. Fortunately, she naps consistently 1-2 hours a day...that is my only work time during the day and usually my first chance to feed myself. I'm responsible for all kid schedules in terms of extracurricular activities, playdates, doctor appointments, along with shopping, etc. while DH is at work. I often drive all over town like a crazy lady the first half of the day on those two preschool days. I am a photographer and try to schedule photo shoots while our 2yo is at preschool, but usually that time is spent running errands that are too difficult to do with a toddler in tow especially since I'm not supposed to be lifting her. Driving is still very uncomfortable for me, but unavoidable. The other three days are usually more low key and spent around the house, but I don't get the time without the toddler and she is in that stage of "pay attention to me or I'm going to destroy your house". 90% of my photo shoots are during the weekend, taking away from family time.

The older kids get home from school at 4pm, which is usually right after the youngest wakes up from her nap. I help them with homework and encourage independent play time with the hopes of getting a little more work done before I have to start on dinner.

DH typically gets home at 6pm and offers help where needed. We usually eat around 6:30pm then have the older kids start their evening routine of finishing any homework, cleaning their rooms, getting stuff ready for morning, and getting ready for bed. DH and I often work together to clean up after dinner, but I also will try to sneak in a little editing time on my computer while he reads stories to the girls. Sometimes we both read in different rooms since our girls are 4 years apart in age. I have a difficult time tuning out noise while I'm working, so I've taken to putting on Netflix shows to block out the background noise. I feel guilty doing that while the kids are still awake, though. I don't feel guilty doing it anymore while DH is at his computer because of all of the years he has hurried to his computer to work during this time frame, but I realize that is now when he wants my attention.

Once the kids are in bed (DH also takes charge of the evening routine most nights), I'm finally off mommy duty and can take care of me. That is usually at my computer. DH is typically at his computer during that time as well. This is the only time that I have to sacrifice for our marriage and I'm utterly exhausted by this point both mentally and physically. Editing my pictures is relaxing to me and my creative outlet. It's not just a job I'd be sacrificing. It is my release, my much needed ME time after taking care of everyone else all day. DH has shown more interest in my work lately and has been a big help in researching, purchasing, and setting up my business needs. He's also shown interest in my images, although that seems pretty forced.
I've never felt guilty doing my work after the kids are in bed because DH has always done this and still complains he doesn't have enough time to get all of his work done. He is a theoretical physicist...he is a number crunching machine and that is always with him. I feel like I'm always interrupting his work even just to talk to him as he usually doesn't hear me at first. I also have to help our kids interrupt his thoughts since he doesn't hear them talking to him either. Our 9yo son, recently diagnosed with high functioning autism, is the same way. They are both doing some pretty powerful stuff in those big heads of theirs and now that I know much more about autism (think Aspergers even though that medical label has been taken away), I highly suspect DH is in a similar place on the spectrum as our son.

So, as far as I'm concerned, DH works from about 9am until I go to bed, which is when he watches his porn. FWIW, I think the porn watching is a big problem in our marriage now and I'm realizing that it always has been. It has set both of us up for failure and I've often wondered if he has an addiction. But, that's a whole other topic.
DH is finally looking for ways to give me attention, but now I don't want it. I've taken care of him and our three kids our entire marriage and neglected taking care of myself. I feel like I need some time to take care of me before I am healthy enough to work on our marriage. I'm not ready for 15 hours a week with my husband even if we could find the time.

I've been neglecting my 2yo and she has had separate pee and poop accidents since I started this post. She's having a tantrum now, so it's time to go. I think my head is going to explode.

Have you read what Dr. Harley says about porn?

What to Do When Your Spouse Has an Addiction to Pornography Letter #1

DH is saying that during this semester, his schedule is easier and he can make time for me during the day. Part time daycare is really difficult to come by in this small town--it's mostly all or nothing. DD will be old enough for the 4-5 day a week preschool options (half day) in the Fall, so that will help a lot with my current daytime craziness. For now, I guess I need to give our marriage those precious hours while DD is in daycare. I am not physically healed enough to exchange childcare services with other moms, which is the only other option I'm left with right now. Trust me, I researched the hell out of child care options while recovering from my surgeries and desperately needing help and again when trying to create time for my photography business. Yay small town.

I just remembered that I have two long-winded stream of consciousness letters I wrote up in the past couple of months that will give people more insight. While I wrote these just to get some thoughts down on paper, DH has seen both of these. I decided to share some of my insanity with him in writing since I don't feel like he hears me when I speak. I'll go find those and post in a minute.

December 7, 2014

Damn, my throat hurts this morning. I thought it was better. And my chest. What is up with the stabbing sensations? Is that even real or just in my head? I guess nerves can be regenerating. Is it too much to ask for that **edit**** to hold off until my throat feels better? No way I'm falling back asleep now. I reach for my glasses and pain erupts through my chest and incisions. I can't care anymore. I need my glasses and I'm sick of trying to find ways to avoid the pain. Ugh. Why do I feel like I have a Nyquil hangover? My head is spinning now that my eyes are open. **edit*** it. I don't care. I need to pee, but I don't want to move again. Better just get it over with. Man, I hate gravity first thing in the morning. Even with sleeping in this stupid tight sports bra everything stings and aches that first time I sit up. I remember how much worse it was without it. What I'd give to be able to sleep completely nude without these tight garments and without worrying about turning my husband on. What he'd give for some sex to start his day. No, it's time to bring on the pain this spinning ball of fun creates. Gotta GET up for that reward, though. One, two, do it! Okay, just give it a second and it will get better. I guess I should just be glad I CAN do it without help. I can't even explain how much I hated the flipped turtle routine after each surgery. Searing pain WITH help. The inchworm gymnastics routine to wiggle a little more upright for a sip of water amounted to a great success and even that took at least a week to achieve after the first surgery. Just a couple weeks ago, the pain was so bad that I had to scream to abort an assisted attempt to sit up. So, this isn't so bad. I can deal with this as long as I don't let this tickle in my throat win out with a cough. I just wish I could wake up one morning and hop out of bed to pee like a normal person. Oh and happily rip out one of those disgustingly phenomenal farts my husband can kill a cow with each morning like he's telling yesterday to go to hell and bring on today. No, I just want to crawl back into bed. If I just stayed on my feet a little longer, the gravity induced pain would subside, but my head hurts and I'm just too tired. My body is tired, my head is tired, my kids are arguing over cereal and hell if I can go deal with that right now. My heart is tired. I don't want to share this little hell of mine with anyone anymore. My pain is such a burden. Both my physical and emotional pain are exhausting to those around me. I see and feel how they are worn down and I sense that this is a small glimpse of what it will be like if and when I grow old. It breaks my heart to realize that my dear Bubbi endured endless years of this feeling let alone the persistent pain and fatigue. The mental exhaustion is worse than what your body feels. I've had moments where I've welcomed the physical pain because it draws my attention away from the rampant negative thoughts eating away at me. Maybe that's part of why I push myself so hard despite knowing how sore I will be; although the bigger reason is I'm sick and tired of asking for help. I especially hate needing help with small things. It makes me feel weak and fragile and just plain horrible on the days where I've been cold and grumpy to the people I need help from. I can only control so much of what my body feels, but I cannot allow my spirit to be weak and fragile or I will break into a million tiny pieces. It's been 11 months. Ha! Today is the 7th! 11 months ago today I brought this on myself. Had I known how bad this year would be, how it would reveal so many painful truths while sending never ending pain through my body, totally **edit*** up my already disastrous hormone withdrawals, and driving a wedge between already struggling connections with people I need in my life...no way. Bring on the next MRI. Bring on the routine phone call to tell me they found something...the waiting and worrying and scheduling, the long drives for painful procedures, the waiting rooms with people who understand and are hoping I get good news but are scared to talk to me and reveal their truths, the sweet nurses and technicians who can't say what they see, the doctors brought in because the nurse either wasn't quite strong enough or experienced enough to ram the tool into my chest and excise a piece of the tiny questionable flaw in my body...pain and fear and waiting. The very brief and overwhelming relief a week later when I get the good news before more questions and the realization that I get to do this all over again in six months assuming I don't discover something worth worrying about before then. I didn't want the people who cared about me to be dragged through the broken shards of glass that was the worry consuming me each time either. I had no idea just how hard this would actually be on me and my family and still, what a painfully difficult choice to make. I already had the rest of my womanhood sliced and diced from my body stealing my hormones among other intangibles. I didn't want my breasts taken. They were a bit deflated, but even I still found them beautiful. They were so REAL. They moved when I moved and squished when I wanted them to and I could feel them. They were a part of me that had grown with me as I became a woman and a mother and a birthing goddess. I nursed three babies, which despite my struggles, was truly magical when I realized that not only had I grown a being inside my body, but I provided 100% of her nourishment for the first six months. My breasts were downright incredible. But, they are gone. I had no idea they'd steal even more of my womanly hormones as they were carved from my thin flesh. Four surgeries later including the latest necessary implant swap and I should enjoy these sharp pains that represent growth and healing as these silicone bags try to become a part of me. I will probably never have sensation on the surface of these things. At least my nipples were spared so these foobs appear more realistic. Of course if I ever get to enjoy the perks of fake boobs and stop wearing bras, those sensationless reminders of what I used to be will be on display for everyone. I know, I gotta focus on the positives. I still need to be smart and question every little change, but the nearly 90% lifetime chances of those ticking time bombs going off has been reduced to less than normal levels. I got lucky. The pain will go away, we will figure out the drugs needed to keep my head from spinning exorcist style, and with a lot of work, some of these relationships will survive. Speaking of which, I'm needed. I need to go shower and start another day of full-time caregiver and house wife. Time to go take care of everyone else.

December 1, 2014

It is after 1pm and I am finally sitting down for the first time to catch my breath. My 4th surgery of the year was 2 weeks ago today. I'm sick with a cough that makes my sternum feel like it is ripping in half and my voice is still hoarse from laryngitis on Friday. I woke up with a Nyquil hangover at 7:30am and barely got Kaia out the door for preschool on time with her breakfast bagel in hand. After dropping her off on the other side of town, I went to Walmart to return an item and buy groceries. Overall, my pain level isn't bad, but it's amazing how sore I can feel after plucking items off shelves, loading them on the belt at the register, heaving the bags into the cart, then unloading them back into the car--ordinarily, I would have brought Kaia after school and used this time to get some work done since she loves munching on a corn dog while I shop at Walmart, but I knew I couldn't lift her in and out of the cart). Just steering the darn cart was enough to make me want to give up, so by the time I got in the car, even buckling my seat belt and turning the steering wheel was painful. And by the time I'd gotten to the UPS store, I was baking in my heavy coat that I didn't want to strain myself to remove after freezing my butt off loading up the car. It turned out I needed to go home to find a box for the item that needed mailing, but first I needed to run across to Dillon's for the loaf of bread I forgot to buy to go with tomorrow's lasagna). While home, I hunted down the smallest box I could squeeze said item into and taped it up, ran a load of laundry, prepared our pork chile verde for dinner (LOTS of chopping...meh), emailed Annika's teacher to remind her I'd be bringing frosted Rice Krispie Treats for her birthday on Wednesday (when am I going to make those???), my therapist returned my call from Wednesday about changing my appointment time (nevermind, Annika will get her birthday dinner on Thursday instead of Tuesday since Jeremy and I are going out on Wednesday), and spent 5 minutes trying to find our check book to pay for Kaia's preschool before giving up and calling Jeremy who had it with him. I was late leaving (OF COURSE) and the left garage door magically opened and refused to close when I tried to close the right side from inside the car. I got to freeze my butt off again while fighting with the garage door and then playing Indiana Jones to get the right side closed again (need I say that I'm not ready to run yet?). I raced back to UPS to deliver the package ($13 to return my mom's little pillow? Really?) then met Jeremy at the gym to grab the check book (enjoy your workout! :P ). I hurried over to pick Kaia up from school then was forced to slow down to a snail's pace getting back to the car (have I mentioned how cold it is outside enough?). Finally back home! Kaia was begging for her leftover pizza from last night that she ate all of the cheese off of, so I grated more cheese and nuked it up for her. I scraped together chunks of leftover Thanksgiving turkey for a sandwich while listening to Kaia complain about her pizza being too hot. After finally sitting down to take my very first bite of food of the day, there's a knock at the door from the mailman delivering a package. Next I wrangle Kaia and get her back in her seat to listen to her tell me that she doesn't like her pizza and scarf down my sandwich while threatening to starve her until dinner if she doesn't eat before her nap. While she's eating, I switched and folded the load of towels downstairs and then loaded up the dishwasher before feeding the rest of her pizza to the dogs. Next I got to play the oh so fun game of put the toddler on the potty. While I was trying to find a potty treat for her, she dumped out a little sample bag of dog food that one of the older kids had opened and left on the pantry table. So, I cleaned up the mess and fed it to the dogs before coaxing the now screaming Kaia who had just closed the pantry door on her hand into my bed (this is always extra fun when I can't lift her). Fortunately, she was too tired to fight sleep, so I was able to escape my bedroom early and well, here I am. EXHAUSTED. My nose is stuffy, my chest is throbbing, and I desperately want to crawl back into bed with my sleeping baby. Don't worry, I've decided not to sweep the floors today.

I wanted to share this one because I can't tell you how annoying it was to have to meet my DH at the gym in order to get the check book. I have major surgery and have no one to help me during a time I'm supposed to be recovering and he still has time to go to the gym. I know he needs to take care of himself and that gym time is important to him, but I told him many times I was overdoing things and needed help. It has been so hurtful the way he quickly resumed his normal life while I was left to suffer through each day alone with our toddler and this happened after the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th surgeries. It was when I wrote this that I realized he had totally forgotten I was still in recovery and had no clue how much pain I was in because I had stopped all complaining as part of my withdrawal from him. I sent him this rant and told him as much and his response was that, yes he had forgotten and he was sorry. He said that he would not be offended if I reminded him that I had just had surgery and still in pain. I wanted to spit in his face.

I would love some help addressing the porn with DH. I've tried many times to tell him it is hurting me and our marriage. I don't really feel offended by it or wish he was saving that insatiable sexual appetite for me. I think it has created a very unhealthy and unrealistic view of sex and how to be aware of me. It is a big part of why I feel like sex has never been about me and why I think he could be having that need met by anyone. There is no emotional connection and I fear there hasn't been since I was forced to worry about him cheating again, which happened 15 years ago...just a year into our relationship when we were struggling to live long distance.

It has only been a few months since he finally realized his role in making sex desirable to me, but he struggled with my physical limitations (from the recent surgery) and became whiney and irritating, which was the biggest turnoff I think I've ever experienced with him.

Are you guilty of any Love Busters? Which ones?

Here's a good show on pornography. Tell us what you think.

Radio Clip on Pornography
Segment #2

My LBs:
*When I'm long winded with the kids (something that I'm constantly trying to fix because I know it's not effective).
*When I nitpick the kids or come across as excessively negative (something that has obviously been worse thanks to depression).
*When I choose to be on my computer instead of spending time with him (I know exactly how this feels because he did it to me for years and then the times he wanted me off the computer was late at night when he wanted sex before bed).
*When I let the little things get to me (the opposite of his LB that he doesn't notice the little stuff...or sometimes the big stuff).
*When I give unrealistic threats/restrictions to the kids.
*When in disciplining the kids, I punish the kid and not the action (again, something I've worked hard and improved upon).
*When I blow up at the kids (this is one of his LBs for me as well especially since I do such a good job keeping my cool all day long when I'm on my own and my blow ups tend to be when Mr. Chipper gets home from work when I'm beyond exhausted. His blow ups are scarier and usually are less expected/sudden where mine tend to have lots of warning because I tell the kids I'm getting very angry. Obviously, both of us need to stop letting the kids control our tempers).
*When I'm grumpy when he gets home from work.
*When I stand my ground on safety issues with the kids (for instance, one of our rare fights was because he let the kids play with fire unsupervised...when our 7 year old burned the hell out of our 5 year old's arm, he was more willing to negotiate).

I can't get those radio clips to work.

What error are you seeing?

Nothing happened when the play button was pressed.
I was able to get it to work on my phone just now.
My situation is very different. I've always known about his porn habit and allowed it in an attempt to pick my battles and keep him from straying. Boundaries were set and he was honest with me about it.
I'm not offended. I do think it greatly shaped his view of sex and has increased his objectification of me.

Here's another good clip that Dr. Harley talks about the contrast effect of porn even if it is POJA'd.

Racio Clip of the Contrast Effects of Porn

Then this program won't work for you. Dr Harley will not coach couples who cannot commit to this - because of that reason.

Susie is correct. When Dr Harley was in active practice he refused to take on anyone who would not commit to the 15 hours of UA time, because his program won't work without it.

here

from Effective Marriage Counseling, pg 30:

I'm trying not to be snippy, but I've really received very little feedback or advice after answering a lot of questions, listening to sound clips, and filling out surveys, and now I'm being told if I don't magically create 15 hours of uninterrupted time with my husband (whose job is the main problem, but is our major source of income to support our family of five), all of the rest of those wonderful Marriage Builders techniques/approaches won't help us worth a hill of beans.
I have a really hard time believing that every couple on these boards are pulling off 15 hours minimum of UA or they're told to hit the road. I understand why UA is so important, but surely 5-10 hours is a good starting place. Hell, I don't even WANT to spend time with my husband. I want some time and space to work out some of my anger and resentment...to finally take care of ME. And I don't want things to feel forced. We went to two concerts and then dinner recently and both dates felt forced. The main problem here is that I've not protected myself and put my foot down when it came to doing things I didn't want to do. My DH has never once intentionally hurt me, yet he has nearly destroyed me. I don't want to open the door for more pain. I need to know that he understands what got us to this point and how to avoid it happening again before I open my heart back up. I'm being pushed before I am ready to spend loads of time with a man who I don't think fully grasps what went wrong in the first place. He's made a lot of progress, but I don't feel safe. I don't want to spend time with him. Wouldn't planning these dates go against the policy of joint agreement?

And I'm really frustrated because I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of robots. There is zero emotion in your responses, nor acknowledgment of my or my DH's emotions. The responses seem scripted. It really seems like I hit a special keyword that sets off a specific auto response and then the meaning is lost in nitpicking. It's very sad. I learned so much from the people on these boards back in 2003/4 and now it's as machine-like and emotionless as my DH has been through most of my marriage.

Smile

The responses might seem scripted because THEY ARE. We are here to help you and your husband follow this program not to chat about emotions. We aren't here to discuss or acknowledge emotions because that does not save marriages. Dr Harley's program DOES. It seems you and your H want to write a lot about your feelings and emotions, which is not going to move this forward.

The people who were on the board in 2003-2004 did not know anything about Marriage Builders and did not have recovered marriages themselves. All they did was use this forum to blog and chitchat, which never helped their marriage. Because when a person is blogging, they are not learning and implementing the program.

Dr. Harley changed the forum to a place of learning, versus a chat forum about 4 years ago.

Smile, it is really hard to communicate with you, okay? You talk and talk but don't seem to DO. Believe me, we want to help.

We haven't told anyone to "hit the road" but Dr Harley sure did when he was in private practice. The program doesn't work without this step. Another aspect is that couples who won't devote 15 hours a week to their marriage are not serious. It just means they place a lot of things BEFORE their marriage, which is why their marriage is a wreck in the first place. If that doesn't change, then the marriage won't change.


It takes 15 hours to MAINTAIN romantic love and 20-25 to create romantic love. You can ask any of us who are in romantic marriages about why 5-10 hours doesnt work. Couples start falling out of love when your time falls under 15 hours. So I don't agree that 5-10 hours is a good start. It won't achieve the objective so I don't see the point. If a couple will only devote 5-10 hours per week to their marriage, that just means they are STILL putting less important things before their marriage and that is part of the problem.


If you follow the program, you will want to spend every free moment with him. If you follow the program, that can happen. But it can't happen if you refuse to follow the program and put less important things before your marriage.

And yes, it will feel forced and awkward at first. Creating new habits always feel FORCED at first. When I quit smoking it felt forced at first. But you will never achieve anything worthwhile in life if you are not willing to create new habits and stop bad habits.