Remark, on today's MB Radio, Dr. Harley talked about situations that make marriages difficult and in the second half he talked about how hard blended families are, and gave an example about POJA in regards to spending time with adult children.

I won't butcher his advice by trying to paraphrase what he said here - but I will say the exact scenario he gave and what he said about it gave me a lot to think about and I immediately thought of your Christmas situation when I heard it. If you didn't catch it, I recommend it. I found it very enlightening.

AW,
Yep, I heard it and was convicted as well. I have been a selfish donkey for many years, thinking like Dr Harley even said that he'd value his kids too, if he remarried. That's why God hates divorce so much. (That's me saying that, not Dr H.)

It's hard as he said, but divorced and remarried people have to value their new spouse over their kids, period. Me not being that way is costing me marriage no. 2.

I've been wrong for all these years for standing up for a value system (mine) that was so selfish.

I apologize to you and all the forum for coming across with 40+ pages of whining about my wife.

Thanks,
Remark

SC,

It got me nowhere I want to be. I need to stop whining about my wife and simply do the program.

Thanks,
Remark

Hey, I am learning with you.

I was "educated" by two things in that MB Radio scenario.

1) That Dr. Harley didn't question the woman's feelings (like I said, I'm learning...) but even more -

2) That the way she felt was obviously very common.

It sounds like a light has gone on for you that you realize your wife feels the way she feels and does not need to supply a reason you determine is valid in order for you to respect her feelings and put her first. That's exciting for you guys.

I agree. I have been selfish for years and the payoff is losing my marriage. I need to stop complaining and simply do the program.

Thanks, Remark

AW,
No, it's not so exciting.
Yes, I heard how important it is for the W to be elevated above your bio-children in your heart. I get that.
I'm also saying it was nice to hear and finally understand her perspective last night when she explained it.
I'll listen again to know what you mean by "question the woman's feelings".

Regardless, she wants divorce.

That is her "feelings" that I need to accept, without question I think I understand my job to be.

That's the situation. No great celebratory lights that I see unfortunately, I'm sorry to say.

Thanks,
Remark

OK "Exciting" may be a bit of an overstatement... But you seem to have a major shift in attitude that could make a huge difference.

Yes, she wants a divorce. But from what I understand she doesn't want it right away so you have some time for her to observe how you treat her. If your changes are real, over time, her feelings may change. She sounds pretty far gone but it also sounds like other marriages have recovered from just as much if not more. If you end up divorced, like others have said, at least you are developing new skills.

BTW, what I mean about questioning the woman's feelings was more about my thoughts, though I did think about your Christmas situation (of course I don't know what her objection was). On the radio show Dr. Harley said it's very common for the Husband in blended families to want to spend time alone with his adult children, daughters in particular. And for the Wife to not want him to spend time with them if she's not there with him.

My instinct when he said that was that if I was the man I would want to know WHY NOT? And if I didn't think the reason was good, my next instinct would be to consider it unfair to me, and have a major DJ towards my wife for being unreasonable. But Dr. Harley simply said "so they need to POJA it."

There was no litmus test to see if the wife had a valid reason for her reluctance. The fact that many wives apparently feel that way tells me it IS a reasonable feeling, and my instincts are flawed. ANd that's why people keep saying how disrespectful it is to say what people SHOULD feel. If I want a happy marriage I will respect my spouses concerns and not demand that he justify them to me. And I should not feel obligated to defend all my feelings either.

That's all me. Your propensity for explaining why you did this or that gave me the impression you may have similar instincts.

Pretty much.

The ultimate consequence for disregarding your wife is divorce. The cost before that is having a wife that is not in love with you.

You've spent your time here writhing against every suggestion, offering plans based off of disrespect for your wife, and attempting to find ways to justify maintaining the status quo.

You don't need some contrived plan. This program has a built in plan, laid out simple;

1) Eliminate and avoid all Love Busters

2) Become an expert in meeting your wife's needs

The two of those items are bolstered by; The Policy of Joint Agreement, The Policy of Radical Honesty, and the Policy of Undivided Attention.

And all of those things boil down to one word; Habits.

Also; stop the pity party. Don't roll over and whine about facing the consequences of your poor marital habits.

Straighten up. Now.

HHH,

I agree with you. The plan should work if I simply master it.

Where dd I cross the line between the realization of self- and marriage- destructive behaviors to pity party?

Thanks, Remark

AW,

OK, I think I understand and agree that similarity ( of instincts) between us.

One last comment, she's burned out because she gave her best, her best years and best efforts, to me and my kids the first, say 10 years of our marriage. I could not agree more with her feeling that way and I think I captured those feelings pretty accurately. The adult kids are gone now, except for holiday visits. For all 20 years of our M, she has dealt with my selfishness, my interests, etc., so her position is understandable, even if understanding were a concern.
What's left now is our 14 yr old who has witnessed her depression and our arguing for years. She wants to live a happier life with and in front of him at this point.

She is not the 'irrational cow' someone understood me to describe in my earlier posts which were full of 'withering contempt'. (the quotes were their words based on my whining.)
I regret those earlier selfish, whining rants.

Thanks,
Remark

Markos,

You out there?

Can we do the LB study we were going to do?

I hope all is well. Is there anything I can do for you?

Remark

I wanted to comment that while one spouse may work on the program alone using the methods outlined in Dr. Harley's articles above, one spouse may not sign up for the online program. Dr Harley won't allow it. The program does not work unless both spouses are on board. One spouse might be able to bring his spouse out of withdrawal but at the end of the day, it takes both spouses to recover a marriage.

Yes, that is my understanding as well, ML.
Thanks for following up.
the fact that a H, working the program, more often than no, saves his M.
Remark

Remark:

The Online Program with Accountability is designed to give both spouses an education in what it takes to have a great marriage, and we encourage them to take the steps to make it happen. We usually begin with a couple who agree to the program, but one spouse is more motivated than the other to follow it. We call the less motivated spouse the "reluctant" spouse and the more motivated spouse the "all in" spouse. But quite frankly, as the program progresses, it's not unusual for the reluctant spouse to become all in, and the all in spouse to become reluctant. So we find day-to-day motivation to follow the program to be a moving target which keeps our coaches on their toes.

Our ability to communicate with each spouse is essential to both the educational aspect of the course and the behavioral change which must take place. It's one thing to hear one spouse's perspective on their problems, but quite another to hear from both of them. As you know in much of what I write, I view the perspectives of a husband and wife to be quite different in obvious but also in subtle ways. These differences must be accommodated in the recovery of a marriage.

So I would encourage you to do your best to avoid love busters and meet your wife's emotional needs to the extent that she will let you. Be sure not to argue with your wife when she expresses her perspective, but instead show utmost respect for it. Write us at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com, and Joyce and I will give you guidance at no charge. We'll even send you a complementary book if we use your situation on the radio show, but we will get back to you in any event.

This is a time of year that we find your problem (difficulty reaching out to your wife) very common. While it can be very discouraging, we have found that if you understand our program, and follow it, you can set an example for your wife that can give her a change of heart. Once that happens, you may be good candidates for our Online Program with Accountability.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley

This is Remark, the original poster.

I haven't posted for a few months though I've logged on to see if anyone has posted info/advice for me. There has been none.

I do listen to MB Radio daily.

The reason, I believe, my wife wanted me to resume on the forum is that she wants me to communicate and get others' opinions of my actions and thoughts/positions on some issues. She said she wanted me to get back on the forum because she feels I give her perspective no credibility and someone else can say the same thing and it has value to me.

Meanwhile, my wife and I are still in crisis mode. We've even had a couple of conversations with Dr Harley. My wife continues to want me out of the house, wanting a divorce. I continue to commit LB's and Dr Harley, to date, has advised me to stay in the house.

I know the urgency of stopping LB's. I sure as heck want to stop those LB's and meet EN's ultimately.

Dr Harley encourages me to accomplish the changes necessary to become a Harley Husband.

I know no one can change me or make me change but me. But, can someone come alongside me and help me please?

Even this morning we talked for 5 hours and she asked me to resume posting on the forum. I was planning on doing it later in the day. I said I would, yet let 2.5 hours pass before I got to it. That as a huge error on my part I now see. That communicated to her how unimportant our marriage is to me. Things like this continue to discourage her and want even more for a divorce.

How does one accomplish change of their very character?

I want to do POJA, and often struggle with POJA by doing what I want to do rather than holding off until we both agree on something. I understand that is destructive and am extremely sensitive to that.

I am committed to change, yet still do dumb things.

I know talk is cheap and actions speak volumes. Dr Harley even referenced that this week on his show.

Advice please, though it may be too late.
Thanks,
Remark

Sure, Remark, what LBs do you want help with?

Dishonesty
Disrespectful Judgements
Annoying habits

In addition,
1. Anything disrespectful, or non-committal. If I say 'perhaps, maybe, I guess, ' These are all non-committal.
2. A lot I say comes across as defensive.
3. She thinks much quicker than me. So, she considers it a LB if I am slow to respond especially if my eyes are not directly at her while I process and compose a response to her question.

Thanks,
Remark

Has this been done?

Yes, I did a lengthy nuero-psychological study that even told me my IQ. Their conclusion was the only thing I suffer from is adjustment disorder with a DSM no. associated with it. The adjustment referring to my dealing with the loss of my wife and son in an pending divorce. That defines the 'bereavement', the cause of my struggle with adjusting to my soon-to=be situation. I shared it also with Dr Harley, and a local counselor I saw for 4-5 sessions here.

Meanwhile, I just spoke with my wife attempting to find POJA on an issue with our son. What she said sounded like capitulation. so I said 'that sounded more like capitulation than POJA". SHe replied, "we don't do POJA because you do what you want anyway".

I genuinely was/am shooting for POJA.
Thanks,
Remark