My wife and I have been together 15 years. I am 34 and she is 36. We are very compatible, share similar views about most important things in life like finances, parenting, etc. We have lots of common interests and have always spent most of our free time together. I love her dearly.

My primary concern (and only real concern, actually) is that we almost never have sex. At 34 years old I'm having a sort of early mid-life crisis, wondering what this means and what I should do.

When I first knew her as a friend at 20 years old, she enjoyed having sex daily with her then-boyfriend, and when we got together in the first year we had sex regularly as well. After year 1, she went on the pill, and we went to having sex maybe 1-2 times per year. Even when she went off the pill a few years later, things always stayed at around 1-2 times per year.

In the first few years I would prompt her for sex and she'd turn me down consistently, or say 'yes' but entirely for my benefit and just lie there motionless until I was done.

The quality of our relationship has generally always been good over those years otherwise so I eventually just stopped asking and instead resorted to masturbation and internet porn on a daily basis. After a while, I didn't even think of having sex with her as an option and sort of learned to live with it.

The only time we had sex frequently was when we made the decision to have children, all of a sudden she was very eager for that month or two until pregnant.

I have read dozens of articles, newsgroup posts and other resources on desire differences in a marriage but so far have not found a solution.

She has been at home with the kids for 5 and a half years now and certainly finds it can be overwhelming at times. Our oldest has mild asperger syndrome which puts a strain on us both. I work a difficult job in order to pay for therapy, private school, etc. For a year or two I worked very hard but have since managed to limit my working hours to about 45-50hrs/week, and otherwise have almost no life, no friends, etc. other than my wife and kids. I frequently offer her a chance to get out for the day as I watch the kids, etc. bathe the kids daily and take on as many responsibilities as time allows at home.

I had a few health scares, in particular a fluke deep vein blood clot that could have killed me in the last year. We caught it in time and I am on blood thinners now for life, and ever since this moment I think this triggered something for me, among other things it made me realize I didn't want to spend the rest of my life masturbating, that there was a closeness missing between us at that level.

I approached her for the first time in years about making sex more of an active part of our relationship. She just said "I don't know" a lot, like she did not understand her feelings or didn't want to communicate them. She said that she thinks about it frequently and wonders why we don't ever end up doing it.

In the last year we've been more deliberate at doing monthly date nights, and I try to 'spark' playful conversation regularly as well over the course of the day, surprise her with flowers occasionally, texting her from work, a weekend away in NYC, etc. and find other ways of experimenting with romance.

I try not to bring up sex very often otherwise though because from what I have read online, communicating about the topic too frequently or initiating sex too frequently seems to add pressure and turn off many women. It also could make her think that I am only spending time with her because I'm looking to have sex.

The result? We've increased our frequency to about 1 time per month. She is a very active participant as well and orgasms pretty consistently. I seems this is progress.

Unfortunately for me I still find myself yearning for her every other night, wondering what to do. Communicate further and risk alienating her? Enjoy our time once a month and otherwise deal with it? Leave her despite our kids and otherwise good relationship?

The part that is so hurtful to me is that over the course of our marriage I couldn't help but feel like she is not attracted to me. In the very early parts of our relationship I can remember her wondering openly if I was the right partner, commenting that she found I wasn't tall enough, that I was not cute the way she is, that I was a 6/10 looks-wise, etc. She wouldn't make these comments frequently, but just a few times and I remember them really well.

However irrational, I can't help feeling used, like she just married me for kids, as a companion and as a provider, but not really as a love interest. I find myself wondering if I were more attractive, if I were more like one of her ex boyfriends, etc. would the situation be different?

It makes me feel lonely and unattractive. I have found myself getting on dating websites where people 'rate' your photos for attractiveness, or flirting with colleagues on occasion, just seeking validation that I am desirable. I also can't help but wonder, although I think it's very unlikely, if my wife would consider infidelity later in life.

I keep hoping these feelings will pass. Some of them feel irrational. But they keep resurfacing.

Any thoughts? Your advice would be most appreciated.

It's not something she can control or is aware of. She needs 15 hours UA time a week. A once monthly date is only enough to keep you in love.

She also needs the atmosphere of a sexually exclusive marriage. Using porn and having other women meet your needs is dangerous and also makes it impossible for your wife's drive to return.

It was very sensible of you not to accept reluctant sex though.

Welcome to Marriage Builders. You will find a lot of help and support on this marriage building site. There will soon be a number of veterans coming along to give you marriage building advise. The advise will not be sugar coated. It will likely challenge YOU in particular. It will not be a place to vent frustrations. I'm not saying this is the tone of your original posting, its just that often seekers some here to seriously get help for serious marriage troubles, and finally they are getting the advise they seek and soon they are back peddling because there is a call to action in a way that might be very difficult for a number of reasons. But know the advise is truly based on action steps that have proven themselves over and over. You can stop testing this and that and quickly become proficient, no marriage counselor needed. Often MC are geared towards finding the pathology and addressing that like a medical doc looks for the thing that's wrong and the entire life style sometimes is not addressed. This is a coaching program.

I truly hope you can overcome and help yourselves make the marital adjustments to accommodate both yours and your wife's important emotional needs and reclaim the whole of yourselves through an interdependency.

Check out Dr Harley's books:

5 steps to romantic love

His Needs Her Needs

Lovebuster's

Listen to his radio program each day if possible

You can even email Dr Harley directly thru MBradio

There are coaching programs too.

Many of the resources cost 0, so this is not a sales pitch.

And like I said there are many veterans here whom have fully recovered their marriages from one disaster or another that volunteer their valuable time to help YOU!

All the best!

Thanks indiegirl. I read the article on the Marriage Builders site about a minimum of 15 hrs/week of 1-on-1 time and I think we are achieving that, albeit on the couch after the kids are in bed, or a few minutes here and there. Earlier in our marriage I'd say we were at more like 30 UA time. I found that it's been harder since having young kids.

I didn't mean to misspeak, I strongly believe she has the atmosphere of a sexually exclusive marriage. The flirting at work has been very little and only in the last year. The use of porn is also fairly recent and something I hide from her.

Thanks graceful2b. I am looking forward to being challenged, I've read lots of articles, I am willing to try anything to improve my relationship.

You need to find out from your wife how much UA time she thinks you are getting. Men consistently estimate a larger amount than women do. Time sitting on the couch exhausted doesn't really count. UA time needs to be time spent concentrating on meeting each other's emotional needs. It needs to be date time, spent outside the home. A few minutes here and there doesn't cut it.

The couch! That's not UA time. It's serious fun, away from the house. Away from the place you raise kids. You do it in four hour blocks not in a few minutes.

Many women do not have an internal trigger for desire as that takes testosterone. For some women they've never enjoyed sex until they discover the precise conditions required.

My wife has always really liked the couch It's not like we're just zoning out on TV, we are often talking or playing a game or something.

Your point regarding real UA time is well taken though.

I am usually the one suggesting to her that we do other things to get out of the house together, but she is reluctant to increase the frequency, be away from the kids, etc. Moreover she says our relationship is "very, very good" so it's a bit tricky to even suggest more UA time on the basis of it improving our relationship. I know the stereotype is for women to have an emotional needs deficit, but I am the one in the relationship more frequently commenting that I need more conversation and emotional connection.

Does the website have any articles/resources on how to convince a partner to go out with you more?

Reading other posts on the forum, I see variations of this statement coming up frequently:

"Women need 2 things to desire sex, an emotional attachment to the man and the prospect of enjoyment. If there is lack of interest in sex on her part then she has either fallen out of love or may have an aversion. Having a strong relationship does not mean you are in romantic love. Women need to be IN LOVE in order to desire sex."

This makes sense. Is this typically how the senior members here would encourage new members with this problem to start thinking? It now has me wondering which of the two (or both?) situations we are in.

I believe my wife has an emotional attachment to me, as I do with her, although I am frequently unsure if she is IN LOVE with me the way she was in our first few months of dating. This is something I would like to know for sure, of course, but just coming out and asking "are you in love with me?" is a hard question to ask.

I also concede we don't have enough UA time, although I seem to be the one that is worried about this more than her.

As far as an aversion to sex - about 4 of the times we've been intimate this year she seemed to really enjoy it, and the 2-3 other times she seemed disinterested and asked to stop a few minutes into due to being tired. I of course stopped right away because I didn't want to reinforce any kind of aversion that may already exist. She's also complained over the years how big a chore it is to have to clean up, she often can't sleep very well afterwards, and she is somewhat uncomfortable with her own body (believes that she is fat, etc. which always dumbfounded me as most people comment how she is very thin and beautiful). So certainly those must be detractors for her as well

TG,

Suggest both you and your wife fill out the emotional needs questionnaire which you will find at the top of the screen.

Right now it appears you are flying blind without an instrument panel to follow and understand your own needs plus your wife's needs. This is always a great place to start.

Another thing, I'd suggest signing up for the MB radio archives. Its inexpensive and you can listen to Dr Harley addressing other couples in a situation like yours.

Basically familiarize yourself to the concepts here will help a lot. There are numerous resources.

Just know often newbies come here feeling their situation is very unique and shortly go about throwing back the suggestions. It really helps to get to know the concepts.

I've learned so much here personally. Its easy to get in the trap of explaining to us all your 'why' answers...but this only takes you backwards and not forward!

You might be pleasantly surprised just how simply managing your environment while in UA time will quickly change and improve your relationship w/your wife. This is a simple action step. Just tell your wife "I have a new goal for 2015! I want to take you out more to help me pay attention to just YOU without distractions."

Ok, my wife and I are doing the questionnaire tonight.

I really apologize for being defensive. I have read the article on UA, the ones on emotional needs, etc. and will re-read as it's a lot to process

Its impressive you want to make improvements. Hang in there.

Here The Critical Importance of Undivided Attention

Indiegirl, do you think playing a rousing game of cards or playing guitar together on the couch from 8-10pm after the kids are in bed counts? What I interpret from your comment is that UA time needs to be out of the house. I'm trying to reconcile this with what I read in one of Dr Harley's articles that suggests you could do 2 hours UA time/day, and the recreational inventory that lists things like checkers, chess, poker, even television. Are those things ok as long as they are outside the house? (ie. go to a coffee shop and play the game of checkers there instead of at home)

I don't mean to be defensive so I hope it doesn't come off this way, I'm just trying to better understand your advice as I feel there's something I am probably missing.

As best I can tell, UA time is best done outside the house in 'date' form, but worst case scenario some can be spent at home on the couch as long as it doesn't involve anyone else, is free of distraction, and is for a sustained period of time (like 2 hours). And something that generates conversation, ie. not TV. And ideally on days you are not exhausted of course. Is that right?

There is nothing wrong with watching television or playing board games for RC. But that is not the TYPE of RC that can be counted as UA time. Watching TV, for example, is NOT giving your spouse your undivided attention. UA time should be spent out of the house giving your spouse your UA time. [except for SF, of course]

When you are not in love, UA time spent at home is completely ineffective because the couple would rather do anything more than spend time with their spouse. They are easily distracted by phone calls, undone chores, TV, computer, etc.


Not even Dr Harley spends his UA time at home because it is useless. So I would not plan for UA time at home.

I think you can see where I am going with this. If my spouse is adamant that 15 hours of UA time per week is unrealistic, perhaps I could ease her into spending more UA time with me by starting some of it at home. As a rule once the kids are in bed, she will not take calls, do laundry, e-mail, or any sort of distraction other than TV. So I'm fairly confident that if I can convince her to spend that time with me rather than the TV, it will be completely without distraction, even if not outside the house. I'm just wondering if it is a valid stepping stone.

Incidentally, her pattern of abandoning all responsibility and zoning out at 8pm on TV started as early as a few months into our dating, ever since our first near-breakup. I always thought she was a bit of a home body. It is very distressing to think she may have been "out of love" with me for the last 15 years, and makes me wonder after so long if the prospect of 'winning her back' and/or effecting any real change is even a real possibility. When it's nearly all I've ever known, what are the odds of effecting change now?

I'll stop ranting for the day and get back to work. I really appreciate your coaching.

That is a bad idea and I will explain why. The entire purpose of UA time is to create romantic love. The only way that happens is by creating NEW HABITS. That will not happen at home doing mostly what you were already doing.

It is much like quitting smoking. Is it more effective to "taper off" or quit cold turkey? As a former smoker, "tapering" just prolonged my bad habits and it took much, much longer for me to quit. That is what you are doing here. You are not really changing any habits, just prolonging bad marriage habits that need to be changed.

Spending a few hours with you at home every week will be grueling to her. It will remain as grueling in week 10 as it is in week 1 because staying home doing mostly what you were doing will not change your feelings for each other. You will both come to the conclusion around week 10 that this procedure is a waste of time and will resent the intrusion.

What happens when you get completely out of the environment and go on DATES where you look your best, is you start falling in love at around 8 weeks. That is when the grueling part ends and the enthusiasm begins. When she is in love, she will be highly motivated to go out with you.<-----that is goal here

NOW, if you follow your plan and just stay home, you will both conclude in a few weeks that the exercise was useless, that Marriage Builders "doesn't work" and will just drop all pretense and go back to your old habits.

In order to turn this around, you both need to make a radical departure from your bad marriage habits.

Both my H and I zone out around 8pm. This is why we plan our dates to start around 5pm during the week and 2-4 on the weekends. We still like our zone out time. I guarantee you she will have a very rough time giving up her TV for you.


The odds are very great!! I am not sure why you think she has been out of love for 15 years, though. Typically, a couple falls in love while dating and it takes about 5 years of neglect for them to fall out of love. A sign of that for a woman is when she is no longer interested in regular sexual relations.

Probably more information than necessary and I recognize, per another member's comment to me, that my relationship is not really unique. But it is somehow cathartic to chronicle my relationship anyway.

Year 1: Went out all the time and I think our EN were at their peak. We played in a band together and recorded music just the two of us. I'm 18, she's 20. Feeling like it's too much too soon, I initiate a break-up 6 months into our relationship that she of course does not take well. We reconcile, but our intimacy takes a big hit. She is much more critical of me, flirts with other men at work, talks about how we should consider an open relationship, etc.

--starting as early as here is when I suspect you'd consider she may have already "fallen out of love"--

Year 2: Moved in together. This seemed to jump-start things again. We were both pretty elated at first I think, some of my best memories came here. Regular sex but we went out less frequently, had more TV nights, but still lots of UA especially on weekends. Then the SF stopped abruptly. It might have been related to the pill she started taking. Or perhaps i created a sudden aversion somehow. She thought she had a sudden hormonal problem but was too embarrassed to ask the doctor.

Year 3-7: Progressively less UA/affection/intimate conversation. We still are inseparable, but she is not in the mood to go out much, we watch a lot of TV. I am increasingly work focused, partly I think because I just need to put my energy into something.

Year 8: Our wedding. I remember getting sad/upset because we didn't have sex during our honeymoon in Hawaii, though we otherwise agreed it was wonderful and spent every minute together talking and having fun.

Year 9: She is off the pill. She is very excited to have sex so that we can conceive. I remark that it's too bad we conceived after just a month because I was really enjoying feeling closer to her.

Year 10-14: No sex at all, other than to conceive our second child. Very little affection, intimate conversation. Not a single date night alone. We're angry and stressed all the time. Finding out our son is autistic makes things even harder. I get a very painful autoimmune disease.

Year 15: She initiates sex out of the blue one day. I finally resolve my health condition by taking a blood thinner after a life threatening blood clot. After those two events, we start talking a lot about how we were back in year 1. Reminiscing triggers affection/intimate conversation/sex a few more times. I sort of wake up to the emotional needs we'd each been missing for a long time. We decide to go on monthly date nights to keep things up. Kids continue to be very difficult, especially my autistic boy who my wife decides to home school, my wife is frequently angry and exhausted, and here I am.