Well, if you prefer to meet your needs in another marriage and family, just don't be surprised when your own family tanks. You can explain to your children why you two were so dead-set on an alternative sexual lifestyle that you guys couldn't even TRY to invest in their home. It speaks to the reason your marriage is obviously failing - your marriage and family home simply isn't worth more than your personal desires. That really sucks.

Your affair partner doesn't give a crap about you. He is just using you. I feel so deeply sorry for you. What a sad, sad existence.

Rosie, did you look around this site before you posted your question? I think you must have done, because your second post used the terms "selfish demands" and "disrespectful judgements", which are technical terms invented by Dr Harley within this programme.

How, if you've looked around the site, do you not realise that it is dedicated to the furtherance and protection of traditional marriage, and that the biggest, busiest forum on here is the one devoted to fighting affairs? How do you not know, from seeing the MB definition of marriage and affairs, that the MB programme recommends extraordinary precautions against sexual and romantic involvements outside the marriage? That means no opposite-sex friends, no hanging out in mixed company without one's spouse, no keeping in touch with ex-lovers and NO SEX OUTSIDE THE MARRIAGE? No swinging, no one-night stands, no "f" buddies", no hookers, no friends with benefits, whether they involve romantic entanglements or not? Have you seen any wife here who is happy for her husband to use prostitutes, even though the men do not get romantically involved? If not, what made you think that we would we support your getting your needs met outside your marriage? How do you not know that people who post here fight for exclusive marriages, putting all their efforts into keeping outside parties AWAY from their marriages?

How do you not know that?

Do you seriously think that you can get help here to live with your "open marriage", or that you can persuade any single person here to advise you other than to GIVE UP THE LIFESTYLE?

Do you really think there is any point in arguing with us on that, here, on this site of all sites?

I clearly didn't read enough through the website to see how important that is. I deeply apologize if I offended you all with my questions, I didn't think through how this might be upsetting to those who have gone through genuine affairs. I would request that a moderator delete the post so it doesn't offend anyone further and I will leave. I'm really, truely sorry I upset you as that was not my intention, I was just searching for some way to avoid ending my marriage and I guess I only saw what I wanted to see in this.

I don't feel offended at all. I feel heartbroken that a young woman has chosen to kill herself with such a toxic, poisonous relationship with 2 men who care absolutely nothing about her.

I feel heartbroken for you. And concerned. That upsets me.

I'm not offended.

I just feel sad to see that maintaining this lifestyle is more important than keeping this family together. It is irnoic, do you not see, that your family is collapsing because you are both invested in other families.

With 3 kids and a widow, do not be a fool - she will be looking to replace you.

I don't want you to be upset for me. I knew exactly what I was getting into, it was MY choice and idea to agree to an open marriage and I fully support that policy. My mistake was in bringing my belief system into a forum which I can see has very opposite viewpoints. I fully and completely respect that my lifestyle would not work for a huge demographic of people and that it offends those who believe strongly in a traditional marriage.

My husband would leave his lover at any time to keep me from leaving and has offered to do so, however I know from the long periods between lovers that being monogamous wouldn't change his behavior pattern, he would simply spend more time in independent behaviors. He prefers to be alone or with his online friends over being with someone who requires him to have responsibilities, whether its me or her, and feels smothered whenever I ask him to put down his phone or spend some time off the computer and with us instead.

RosieK,

Do you want your children to live a lifestyle like yours?

Your H is in love with this OW and as a result has no love left for you.

Do your part and end your affair, you are having a bad effect on the OMs children as much as you are damaging your own family.

God Bless
Gamma

He isn't going to change then, because your marriage has no boundaries. He can be a poor husband who doesnt meet your needs, and you can be a poor wife who doesnt meet his. Your solution is to just go outside the marriage rather than fix your own. Repeat.

No standards, no investment, no change.

Good luck. We have had many former open/poly/swingers, many are frantic when the reality caves in - it crumbles.

Your lifestyle doesn't work for you, though.

THIS is not a successful lifestyle:

I think you know he won't leave his lover and would give up your marriage if given a choice. He is spending his time in his independent behaviors NOW, so it makes no sense to say he will if he ends his affair. He has completely checked out of your marriage, after all.

At some point you have to stop lying to yourself about the "success" of your lifestyle. That is a lie.

Roise, you are breaking my heart. For you and your children.

I don't think people are telling you to end the "open" in your marriage because they are invested in "traditional" anything. I think they are telling you to do it because you cannot have what you are asking for - a happy marriage that is not exclusive. It simply is not sustainable. You are asking for something that cannot be.

I am very new to MB but what I have learned so far is that there is a psychology to humans in general and men and women in particular. Just like we cannot deny laws like gravity and centrifugal force, there are certain "natural laws" to how humans behave and react to certain situations and no one is so special that they are unaffected by those laws.


Maybe he is this selfish and unwilling to be an equal partner. (If so - why be married to him? Are you really so worthless you can't ask your husband to pay some attention to you?) Then again, maybe all he needs - all you both need - is direction on how to behave toward each other.

The lack of value you show for yourself by allowing these outside relationships must be unattractive to your husband. Your husband may have originally thought he would be living the dream - but it sounds like he's not happy either. This lifestyle certainly isn't challenging him to be a man any woman can admire.

You're using the language of MB with IB, DJ, etc. so it seems you recognize the wisdom in some of this.

I once had a neurologist give me a diet plan that included some strange things that made me think - what difference could THAT make? She saw the look on my face and said "Feel skeptical and do it anyhow." I did and it turned out to be a miracle for me.

With MB I think you should feel skeptical and do it anyhow. The feelings and understanding will follow. You will either save your marriage or get out of an incredibly toxic situation.

Radio clip on Swinging
Segment #2

My heart is broken for you that you do not see that your marriage is so completely unhealthy for you that you've been brainwashed into thinking this is a good lifestyle for you . Your marriage is a shell.

Rosie,

Perhaps you are too close to your own situation. It seems you are too much in your own head and used to the 'role' and dogma of your lifestyle and can't connect with how much its hurting you and your young children.

If you can just step back and view where the energies (which has a lot to do with time) are going in the various relationships both yourself and your husband are centered around.

Do the math. Add up the amount of time you are each spending with your 'other' families. Now add up how much quality time you are spending with your children. You know, actively playing w/them and helping w/home work etc.

Now take the time you or your husband are away attempting to meet someone else's emotional needs and as well also attempting to put energy into providing family support with care and attention w/other children and lovers.

Conclusion: From a child's perspective your time and energy investments outside their so-called safeharbor (family home) is being depleted. You are taking from them in order to fulfill a storyline you decided to dedicate yourselves to. On top of that they get to witness your demise which is totally debasing their world.

This is reality. You know, its not a dress rehearsal. Put it all together. Your heart, your intuition, us on this forum are all trying to inform your head. This stuff you are telling us is also called betrayal blindness, around here its called 'affair fog.' Your husband is checking in with you to see if his gaslighting you is still working. Yes, he is gaslighting you and you are reciprocating. Its not good to entrench yourself so deeply you don't recognize the alarms and the danger aspect. You've probably heard the story of the frog jumping into the pot and the heat source slowing heating up, therefore he (frog) does not realize he is being cooked before its too late.

All the issues you have described scream out your lifestyle no longer suits you and its gotten so bad you do not have the energy to properly fight for your own life and your children's wellbeing. We don't have a magic pill to help you. This requires a total redirection one way or another and if you believe in a higher source, it appears you are being called to make changes.

This program is a realistic resource for you. somehow you landed here and many are volunteering to help you.

Probably honey works better than a stick for you.

Just a thought, but if you don't want to change your weight or the way you're messy, or the way you nag and argue at him, AND get your emotional needs met by another man ( you refer to your partner in a very loving tone), why would your H want to come back?

Have you ever thought that your emotional attachment (and not just physical) to your partner has made your H jealous and so he spends the time with the other woman because he is exclusive to her?

Hope you're still around.

Old thread and Rosie may not check in, but from someone who also did the swinging lifestyle and thought as she did, it just can not work long term. It crosses so many boundaries, blurs lines, desensitizes you to sex and intimacy, affects trust, confuses emotions. I just spoke with a friend today I knew from "the lifestyle" and that marriage crumbled, her hubby left for a swing partner and that woman broke up her family. I don't know any of the people I knew then who are still married today. I have no judgement of people wanting kinky sex and out of the norm adventures, I have just found what a big mistake open marriages or swinging is to the goal of having a happy marriage and a healthy family. I agree completely with Anywife. It isn't a matter of judgement, it is a matter of choosing what works over what doesn't work.