I don't KNOW what my conditions are. That's why I want him to call Sandy.

Very true, let Sandy tell him the plan of reconciliation.

While you wait to if he acts or not, will you be seeing a lawyer?

Oh man, guys. Today was quite a day...

I asked H to stop texting me when I had to erase the AO I had typed. He then emailed that he wanted to talk to me. All this was while I was at a child's birthday party with my kids and close friends (that he is also friends with)

So...I hear a knock on the door and open it and it is my husband! I was shocked but I simply closed the door and walked into the other room. I didn't talk to him.

He didn't realize there was a party going on. He emailed later to apologize and said he wanted to make a big gesture to show how serious he was. So, yes, his big gesture was to, not honor my respectful request to communicate via email. Of course you can believe it

He also asked via email to go over my conditions again, to clarify. There were two and I texted him about it this morning. I did not clarify.

Oh man. He acknowledges that his actions have drained my love bank and led to sexual aversion (I know that I contributed to the aversion) Among other things he texted that since I wasn't meeting his need for SF it was the same as me not meeting ANY needs (I've been meeting ALL the other needs as well as I know how) because "sex is the only need that matters to a man" AND that he showed affection by taking care of stuff around the house etc. This is coming from someone who has read HNHN, and has been exposed to MB for 5 years. And has been coached on affection. I am not sure I have the stomach for any more of this. It's madness.

It's interesting that he doesn't own that sex is the only thing that matters to him he attributes it to all men. He did the same thing when I asked him a while back if he had been enthusiastic about having kids (he said no man is ever enthusiastic)

I am not sure about meeting with a lawyer this week. I want to meet with our lawyer first...I do plan to meet with a lawyer either way.

I would go forward with an IM. You don't need to hear anything that he can't tell your IM.

He knows the conditions.

I think you were badly let down here by a lot of abuse-enabling hooey. It's staggering they have put the blame on 'both of you'. The fact is his behaviour was heart-breaking and cruel and they should have let him have it while you put him on a notice period.

A blank check of forgiveness is a white card of 'do whatever you want'.



This is not news. He wants sex, OK. He's willing to take care of the place where he lives. Big woop.

He doesn't want to be a married man who cares for his wife. So very, very soon he is going to trial run that wish and see how well he likes it.

I don't know what Dr H advised specifically but I would be tempted to file because I see this as a lost cause. Perhaps not if he truly gets you can't be railroaded and he is looking at the last chance saloon.


Stand firm if any enablers tell you to offer him more forgiveness. You've eaten dirt for long enough.

x 2

I was simply in no position to defend myself. It was only marginally worse behavior than the previous months and years so it seemed "normal". Also I had spent a week in the hospital on a drug that left me unable to shift from side to side or see or get up to go to the bathroom. Then I had a baby who we were told had a better chance of dying than living (and we couldn't start mourning because it was just weeks of limbo "he will probably die) and I was waking up every two hours to pump milk because you have to mimic a newborn's eating habits in order to produce milk properly and...It was all my fault for wanting a stupid baby in the first place. Also, I did not tell anyone what he was saying or doing. I am only doing that now. It's just that at the time everyone was telling me to give him grace etc. I guess no one was telling him not to expect/demand SF...

The only time I've cried or felt emotional this last week was when I sobbed for THAT woman that I was and how unacceptable and horrible that was. Don't worry, I went to a therapist and psych for PPD to get therapy (to fix my flawed thinking-patterns) and to fix my messed up brain chemistry and I never explained any of my H's behavior to any of them. (and there is more, as you can imagine)

He is not happy being out of the house. Since I am not feeling willing to do the coaching yet I think he is going to counsel with Steve?? I know I am bastardizing Marriage Builders and that nothing is as bad as an affair. But I feel like we have to eliminate the conditions that led to this behavior. I don't totally know what they are. I know I had a part to play and I can only hone my "will-not-put-up-with-it" skills if I stay separated from him during this process.

He is not handling the separation well (according to him) but I am.

Feeling kinda dumb... but

What do you mean by "bastardizing Marriage Builders"?

Sorry, I was just using concepts from recovering from an affair. I know this is different.

Typical gaslighting results in feeling as though it was your fault. I hope these days are truly over for you and I wouldn't allow any direct contact (opportunities to gaslight) unless the Harleys tell you he is 100 pc on board.



I'm so glad you see all this now. I would consider short term ADs in the near future as you come to grips with it all. It will keep your thinking level while you rebuild yourself with proper care.

As you say, it isn't an affair, but it is a LOT of dishonesty and you will have a similar, painful, rewriting of the past.

To be quite truthful the only thing worse than a Dday is an affair where there is no Dday and I cannot see any reason to assume he's been faithful to you.

Gaslighting usually means 'big, bad secret and I have to control you to keep it'. It is also highly suspect that he wanted to go touring with a band and was so irate about missing it...

The comments about your body are also slightly worse than a mere 'I expect SF at all costs' H would make. It sounds wayward or at the least, like that of a porn addict in tone.

I just get the impression he thinks certain things are expected from men in public (a grudging father and husband act to satisfy conventions, or to get the woman he wants). I think however he also feels that all men (who don't want monogamy and fatherhood) do whatever sexual things they want to do in private. I'm not certain but in your shoes I would have hired a PI and not trusted any 'transparency'.



You will feel like a lead weight is lifted. Everything will be easier for you.


You will be OK no matter what his choice is.

Did Dr. Harley encourage you to file for divorce?
He usuAlly encourages a separation of up to 2 years prior to divorce.
Divorce doesn't end everything but having lawyers involved certainly doesn't help.
Dr. Harley encourages those separating to seek legAl protection through an attorney.

I'd follow Dr Hs advice to the letter. Did he suggest an intermediary?

Him saying there is no hope if you even start the divorce precedures is just him trying to bully you into submission again. If he were serious about his marriage, he would not use words, he would use actions to show you how much he loves you.

Instead he is looking to preserve the status quo without having to accommodate your feelings.

Dr. H did not advise me to divorce or use an intermediary. My husband has been in contact with Sandy and has an appointment with Steve tomorrow.

Cocfeegirl,
How is divorce part of this conversation?
Do you want to divorce him or try separation first?
Who advised you to separate and communicate by text?

Jedi those were all things that I suggested while asking what Dr H had advised.

CG, what exactly has Dr H advised since your H has spoken to the coaches before?

Does he feel the separation will motivate him? Is he to give your coach an answer as to your conditions? Are you to date during this separation or hold out for more commitment first?

Just wondering what his guidance was here as to the plan.

I think Steve Harley's involvement is promising as I imagine your husband would respond well to him.

My husband spoke to Steve and liked him. Steve wants to talk to me and we have an appointment Monday.

Dr. Harley advised that we stay separated and gradually spend more time talking and then together. Once my H is meeting my needs and avoiding Lovebusters I would have him move back full time. So, yes the plan would be to date during our separation.

Sounds excellent. Your husband will stay motivated with Steve's plan, taking away need for control and you won't be lovebusted as he'll stay away until coached.

Very clever.

Are you still only communicating through text? Is he still at his parents or did he go somewhere else?

How are you doing?