AM, I've been reading through the FR thread and it's good to be aware of all of this now. I have not have seen your post yet. I'm so happy to know that for both you and Goldenyears the outcome has been positive, that it is possible. I'm hoping that one day I will truely admire my H, and that he will be happy that needed attention comes from me.

armymama's story is a very good one to follow. I learned so much from her story. Goldenyears is another good story to follow. You will learn so much from both of these strong ladies.

Here are some good clips in here What is Just Compensation?

My post is from 2010, all the way on page 17.

BrainHurts, I read Just Compensation and listened to that radio clip. I will have my FWH read/listen also. I know you and everyone else here on this forum volunteer your time... Thank you

You're very welcome, friend.

Armymama, I've begun reading your posts from the beginning. You've been through so much. I'm so glad to know that you and your H now have a good marriage and can enjoy your retirement years together. It is so encouraging for me to know this.

Here's another good story.

LongWayFromHome's Thread

lightwalker,

Yesterday, I was sitting on the couch and H came over, knelt before me and said. "You are so pretty". (remember I am 62). I said the same thing I have said for more than 30 years: "You wear glasses" and then we laughed as we have done for all that time.

It is possible IF you husband will commit totally to a passionate marriage and follow the MB program. No shortcuts!

AM

I love it!!

What great stories I've been reading. I'm so impressed and encouraged by the character and the courage shown by these BS's in facing down incredible amounts of pain and fear in order to try again...

PA is indeed a high EN for most men and also for some women. Dr. Harley has found that most of the emphasis on PA is about weight gain. PA is also about good grooming. So if a wife was to stay fit and healthy and keep a nice-looking hair style, makeup, and dress in attractive clothing, that would usually be enough to satisfy this EN. There is a worksheet for this in the Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook.

A very important requirement for a great marriage, though, is that you shouldn't have to compete with any other woman out there. Your husband should never view porn again, nor should he gawk at women - either in real life or in magazines or catalogs.

One of his EPs should be that he must never flirt. He will have to learn an entirely new way of interacting with women. If this is a problem for him, he should probably avoid working with women.

It takes a couple of years to recover a marriage - MINIMUM - and your resentment will fade once your marriage is romantic, passionate, and safe.

Thank you LongWay for your response. I don't know if I will have the kind of character and resolve you, Armymama and so many others on this forum display. Some days I am so angry, hurt and resentful, some days I feel hopeful after reading the forum, and some days, like yesterday, I feel downright crazy--seeing a young woman with a slight resemblance to OW and feeling such contempt for this innocent young woman I didn't even know, that I wanted to bash into her with my grocery cart! the feeling was so visceral, and I felt so depressed afterwards...

As far as the PA, it is my FWH who has the weight issue. I have always been petite and have kept myself in pretty good shape and looking younger than my age. I feel resentment because my husband knew exactly who I was when he married me; I presented myself honestly--a petite natural blond. I'd chosen a lifestyle for myself; I was a country girl in jeans and T-shirts who was no longer interested in the quest for fashion. Though I had been attractive to the opposite and had dated a lot, I was specifically looking for a mate with lower PA needs. I thought my H was that kind of man. It wasn't until after we were married that his criticisms of me began. Even then when I tried to please him, I was punished rather than rewarded for my efforts. Example: When I tried to change my hairstyle in the way he wanted me to, he got angry and frustrated with me because I didn't look like the young model in the picture. Those kinds of hurtful, unrealistiic attitudes and comparisons to other women of course had the opposite effect he wanted. I became emotionally and physically adverse to trying to please him. I never felt safe, and I stopped trying. Now his admitted obsession with young, voluputous exotic-looking brunettes--things I can never be, makes me so upset. The OW had some of these qualities. I was a woman who could have grown older gracefully and now I seem to be obsessed with his obsession. And I can't seem to get away from it. Everywhere I look are those kinds of images--magazines, tv,movies and everywhere I go. They are all triggers.

To my FWH's credit, I know he does not want to be this way and really regrets his behaviors (every LB in the book). I know he cares for me and has always been attracted to me for other important EN's he has. I was the stable adult. He says he knows he has been extremly childish and selfish, and wants to change. He has not displayed any of those LB's for a very long time, but it is lack of the UA time that is still the hold up in my ability to move on. My fear that he may not be able to change is driven by the fact that he has some MH issues such as depression and OCD-both having been treated for many years. I forgave many of his behaviors because of this, but now that I learned of that long-term EA I can no longer tolerate him and feel cheated that I might have had a life with someone else who might have appreciated me. I'm angry at myself now that I realize how my Giver contributed to all of our problems.

We have recently completed the EN inventory and addressed the PA issues, and I do feel better that my H now understands my perspective and accepts responsibility for the pain he has caused me. I'll keep trying, thanks to all of you...

I went through this with the PA EN also. I like you am a t-shirt and jean wearing outdoorsy girl, and have always been this way. I didn't get my nails done, tan, or primp even for my wedding. I do always do my hair and makeup every day and am fairly fit, practice good hygiene, etc. I just am more of a tomboy. This is one of the things I thought my H liked about me, until he indicated his PA need wasn't being met. I felt the need to be glamorous and fancy, and felt like a fish out of water when I tried to be. A LOT of people tried to help me on my thread, with workout advice, clothing advice, blah blah blah. It did feel unnatural and I got very resentful.

One thing I try to focus on now is POJA. In other words, you change things about yourself to try and meet a PA need, but only in a WIN-WIN way. This means that the changes are negotiated where both your H and you are happy with the result. You have to be enthusiastic about making the change, and not sacrificing for him. So for example, my H likes fancy nails. To make him happy I got french tips put on. Every moment in a nail salon is pure torture for me and fake nails are a lot of maintenance, not to mention the fact that having tips is very inconvenient and does NOT go along with my lifestyle at all. So I sacrificed by doing this and was resentful about it. But, that being said, I DID like having my nails done all the time, it just made me feel a bit more put together even when I was dressed down. So to compromise I am now getting regular french manicures with my own nails. I can go when I want and not when I need a fill, and they are short and manageable, but they still always look good. Win-Win.

But none of that will help if there is a contrast effect and your H is comparing you to other, younger women. He needs to stop doing that.

Hi Unwritten, Thanks for your thoughts on the PA issue.You and I sound like two peas in a pod when it comes to fashion! As a young woman I was very into all of that, probably overly so, but found I was much happier when I wasn't obsessing on my looks. Also like you, I've always worn makeup and attended to the grooming, and dressed well for work, but at home I just wanted to be comfortable. Your approach seems balanced. When my H and I did the PA worksheet, he wasn't very specific which is part of the problem. I'm asking for specifics, and I'm working on trying to be less sensitive about the whole issue. I remember reading some of your thread now, and I'm going to try to find your story. As far as the contrast effect problem, My H seems to have stopped the internet activities and says he is working on the flirting issue. But I don't know how other men deal with the fact you can't get away from the contrast effect in the society we are living in. My husband once told me just standing in the grocery line with all the magazine covers caused him to view me more negatively. Plus everywhere one goes there are young provocatively dressed women everywhere. I know my H is obsessive, but I wonder how the average man manages it? It would be interesting to know.

I have had that issue too. It has been an ongoing struggle for H to be specific about any of his needs, including the PA need. We are a constant work in progress, so I'm not sure if reading my thread will enlighten you in any way.

As far as the contrast effect, I understand your problem. I agree that it is everywhere, how do you refrain from 'seeing' it. I know Dr Harley has answered this question before, perhaps someone can link you to a radio broadcast or link that might give his answer. If not, maybe you would want to email him this question so he can give you specific ways to avoid the contrast effect in your situation.

He needs to STOP internet activity that compares you to other women. You need to monitor him to make sure that has happened. I can't remember if that is looking at porn or some other activity, but it needs to stop immediately and he needs to never do that again. It should be part of your extraordinary precautions to recovering from his A.

Forgot to add, he also needs to STOP the flirting. Not 'working on it' but just stop.

UA time is the cornerstone of recovering a marriage. Dr Harley recommends spending 20-25 hours together each week fulfilling the 4 intimate needs, to restore love in a marriage.

Believe me, I had many of the same strong emotional reactions you are now suffering. I was extremely angry and often lashed out at my H in anger. It took a lot of MB for me to learn that I HAD to stop the anger. But I was still very sad and very resentful and completely hopeless that I would ever feel better. We're four years post D-Day and have the best marriage we have ever had. It wasn't my character that brought about the changes; it was a decision on both our parts to create and maintain marital habits.

I have also had the same illogical reactions to women I randomly see while I'm out and about who remind me of the OW. (We live far FAR away from the OW.)


I am also, and have always been, petite and fit. My H was the one with the weight problems throughout our marriage. I was repulsed by his weight gain - fifty pounds gained after we married! I wasn't attracted to him, but certainly other women were. Once my H ended, flirting, porn, and masturbation he is very happy with me. He uses the "2-second rule" and does not even look at catalogs portraying women. He lost his excess weight and is now extremely handsome so I am happy with his appearance, too.

Your H must stop all flirting, porn, and looking at other woman for the rest of his life. He will find you attractive once he eliminates all competition.


He sounds a lot like my H who also had heaps of love busters. I very much disliked being married to him but I believed that being a Christian, I was supposed to put up with it and love him "unconditionally." Now I know that's simply enabling crappy behavior. My H has changed drastically and has become a man I care for and am in love with. It takes time and effort to create new habits, but once they're in place, the rest is pretty easy. I never thought my H would be able to become a great husband but he did. And yours can, too, if he builds and follows MB habits.


Make sure you and your H don't discuss the mistakes of the past. I know that in a long marriage, this means not talking about many years in a marriage, but we stick to talking about the present and future mostly and enjoy great, safe conversations. My H knows he will not be hit with reminders of the kind of man he used to be, although even that took a while to overcome. He felt he deserved it, but it's a love buster, so I asked him to always stop me with "Honey, let's not talk about the mistakes of the past. Let's stick with the program." And I HAD to zip up that comment and talk about something else. Now I rarely even think about those "bad old days," except to marvel inwardly at what we have now.

Longway, You are right--I will need to "zip it" as far as rehashing the old issues. This will be a challenge as it is my biggest LB behavior. I like how you handle it, and will remember the words you've asked your H to use if you slip up.

That "2 second rule" approach to the contrast problem--I'll suggest to my H!