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Another quick point...

You undertake these concepts TOGETHER...because not only is she vulnerable to an affair (based upon her behavior...she is susceptible)...but you are too. You are a young husband and father who also has dated pretty much one woman since high school. You would be a strong candidate for midlife crisis type of affair at work and heck, your wife cheated on you once, so evening the score is a quick and easy justification and rationalization.

I'm not trying to insult you by calling you a possible or potential cheater but you ARE human and we all are susceptible to making mistakes (including other marital killers like gambling, porn, drugs and alcohol, etc). It also makes the marriage builder process more complete as you BOTH undertake extraordinary precautions to protect your marriage. You BOTH become each others accountability partners.

MB is not about fixing her....it's about fixing and protecting your marriage. It applies equally to both sides versus being a punishment towards the formerly cheating spouse.



FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Correct, letting a member of the OS meet any of your emotional needs (conversation, recreation, etc.) is just a recipe for disaster!!!!!!

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Where do I find boundaries on this site I have been looking and can't find it.

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People with bad boundaries allow others of the opposite sex to meet their emotional needs and deposit love units in their love bank. People with good boundaries deliberately guard their love bank against outside threats. Good boundaries are not an accident. They are a conscious decision to not allow others to meet the emotional needs that your spouse should be meeting.


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DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
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Good boundaries for a married person would be:

No opposite sex friendships
No flirting
No discussion of personal life with members of the opposite sex
Spend all leisure time with spouse
Never spend the night apart from your spouse

I am sure other folks can add to this.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I hope I am not driving you crazy today thank you for all the advise. I have read a lot on this site and took the love bank quiz. From a woman's point of view and I hope I get a few responses to this one but how important is physical appearance? In other words the OM would be considered better looking by most women. I would be considered a good looking guy for sure so not comparing a 10 to a 2 more like a 9 to a 7 if that makes sense lol. My wife said he avoided really any connection and most of the texting and activities were sexual. She went along because she said she didn't want to lose the attention from a hot guy. She tried a couple of times to get him to meet some of those needs like talking or a sort of plutonic meeting and he had no interest. When you are a happy woman with a husband that cares does an attractive guy still present temptation? Is lust something that can be controlled by a woman who's needs are being met? When a man sees a hot woman he immediately thinks of her sexually, what does a woman think when she sees a hot or cute guy?

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Your wife was attracted to this guy because he was meeting her needs. He probably gave her some attention and was a good conversationalist. A person can see an attractive person and like them/lust after them but they don't have affairs. The key here is that he was meeting her needs in some effective way.




"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Every man and woman is different when it comes to their top EN's. Generally speaking, PA (physical attractiveness), is not a high need for most women. But that is generally speaking, it may be a very high need for your wife.

You can talk to her about ways to meet that need for her, and she should avoid places where she is around a lot of highly attractive men so as not to compare you to them.

This is the same as it would be fore a man who has a high PA need, btw, it is not gender specific advice. You do not need to ask for advice from the women on this forum, because the advice here is based on Dr Harley's concepts, not our own opinions and female perspective.

Last edited by unwritten; 01/28/15 03:37 PM.
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I have to say I am grateful to say the least to everyone who offered advise. There was a lot of content to read, process and offer educated, insightful and thoughtful responses. I have been struggling tremendously with this for over a year and this has been the most painful and horrible experience of my life. I still have a ways to go but you all provided me with valuable clarity with which I was in such desperate need of. I can't thank you all enough as I have had NOBODY to confide in and deal with this in a constructive way. I have to focus on ME now and make improvements on myself as well as my marriage. My biggest fear in all of this is she might do it again. I will keep her bucket full and continue to be the best husband I can be utilizing the information and concepts from this site. If it is purely in her nature and she really is deep down a selfish person and this happens again its over, but I don't want to waste the prime of my life on someone who does not ultimately care and love me the same way I do them. I believe this relationship is worth saving so that is my goal. I can't thank you all enough for giving me what I needed so badly. I needed clarity, support and to be picked up and put back on my feet. You all have giving me the opportunity to move forward and for that I am eternally grateful. Thank you!!!! Especially Melodylane you have really given me a chance to feel human again. Ultimately its me that has to learn to live a happy life, but you gave me what I needed to take that next baby step. Thank you so very much!!!! One last thing, everything I have learned from all of you and this site I will utilize and I will not waste the valuable eye opener that has been provided to me. You can all walk away from this one knowing you helped someone in desperate need and I hope you take great pride in that because I most certainly value and appreciate what I have accomplished with your help. A new perspective.... Thanks again!!!!

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You are very welcome, Burned!! And please don't stop working on recovery, because if your marriage does not recover, your resentment will grow. If your marriage gets better, you won't have resentment. So it is critically important that you don't stop. You have change your marriage into a marriage that is radically better than what you had before. We can help with you that.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Burned13
indiegirl what is your experience? Have you been in this type of situation before?


Both I and my ex husband had poor boundaries. It got me into some trouble by attracting men, but I nipped it in the bud and told my spouse. I then improved my boundaries but I mistakenly attributed it to my attractiveness. Pretty people with good boundaries don't get hit on though!

Neither my husband nor his mistress were very good looking but by consoling her after the death of his best friend/her husband they met shed loads of each other's ENs and had a full blown affair. Lovebank lesson learned!

Originally Posted by Burned13
What do you mean by bad boundaries? Does that simply mean that she allows herself to be excited by what she thinks are good looking men and allows herself to act e.g. flirting and sending the signals she is available? If a guys cheats it is often a matter of lust. Just wanting something new and sexually appealing as far as I know. Is it possible she did it just because she was hot for him and wanted the physical sexual experience?


The PA need rarely causes affairs even for those who are very distracted by attractive people.

Most affairs are with unattractive people the wayward feels comfortable letting their boundaries down with. The affair happens accidentally because they assume there is no attraction.

Most married people avoid the company of the obviously attractive. Most married people don't want affairs yet 60 pc of marriages experience them.

The serial lust-motivated cheat is actually in the minority, but is an obvious one for people to spot.

I'd say in your wife's case she was actively targeted by such a predator who is also an expert in meeting ENs. Waywards are like vampires - they know how to recruit.

Your wife probably felt safe accepting the flattery/EN need because she was NOT attracted to him and found him an obvious cheeseball.

He's a loser; she will have accurately assessed. That initial fact always reasserts itself when ENs stop being enough which is why 95 pc of affairs end quickly within 2 years.


Last edited by indiegirl; 01/29/15 12:19 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Anyone who has affectionate, admiring, conversational or recreational relationships with a member of the opposite sex has poor boundaries.

These needs are very powerful and when allowed, you can fall head over heels no matter how moral you are.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Okay she was definitely attracted to him for sure unfortunately he is a good looking guy. He does pray on the weak for sure I know the girls he has cheated on his wife with he bragged to me about them. She has always had an attraction to him but never really tried to pursue it. When he texted her on her Bday she said she was smitten he remembered and said she was lonely and unhappy. This was exciting to her and I just became invisible. She thought because he liked her she could do better than me. On the middle weekend we were in the car on the way home she had just kissed him in the bathroom area and rubbed him with her foot. I started talking about how we were connected and no matter if our fights were bad or not we had that connection. OH MY was I so very wrong. She started talking about maybe we really are not that connected and I was kind of shocked. We almost started to argue about it and that was the end of the conversation. She said she didn't want to try to fix our problems because that would end the fun and she would lose his interest.

I want to have a talk with her about the boundaries as that is an incredible way to look at how it happened and how to prevent it from happening again. I really want her to buy into it but ultimately she has to choose to enforce those boundaries within. I just don't know if she is mature enough to really know what she has with me. If she knew for sure she would not get caught would she do it again no matter how good to her I am? Would she find a way to convince her conscience it is okay? He has always made it clear he was available to her so yes she knew for sure she could have him if she wanted. How do I assess if her morals are screwed up or if it really did just boil down to being unhappy and low boundaries?

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Why do you say pretty people with good boundaries don't get hit on that is an interesting statement. Before I learned what I have learned here I asked her when a good looking guy is around us to pay attention to me and have a virtual F OFF sign on her forehead. I know not a very elegant way to explain what I was wanting but you get the point.

She has a very playful and cute personality when she is happy and that tends to attract guys interest. I can't ask her to stop being her boundaries or not...

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No but she can choose to have good boundaries for herself. I did and I am still 'me'. I am just as flirtatious and fun but I direct it towards the right man!

Men don't approach woman giving no signals. All studies show that. Your instructions to her reflect that insight.

He's met a need for both affection (remembering) and admiration with one text. He's good but ultimately a fraud.

Don't try to educate her. Go through SAA together and see what she thinks. She will probably be relieved for the explanation.

The love bank is unconscious. If you accept needs they affect you just as heroin would. There's no conscious choice involved with romantic feelings.



Last edited by indiegirl; 01/29/15 01:19 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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The word playful was used all the time by lots of men to describe me. Wow that makes me wince now. These days I only want my boyfriend to see that side.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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I want her to feel the same way. I want her to want to have the F off sign and wince at that kind of attention. About 6 months after there affair ended we went to a festival with another couple. The other couple are our next door neighbours and in their mid 20's. We had a few drinks and their was music playing. My wife loves to dance and we were headed into a building towards the washrooms. She grabbed a wall and did kind of a sexy dance type move. After I told her that was way offside and she was embarrassed and agreed. What does that mean though? Does she do things like that to get the attention. Remember this is 6 months after and 6 months of me being a total rock star husband (and I really do mean that modestly but I have put 110% pedal to the metal to be a better husband). He has made a couple of comments about her looking good on a couple of occasions and the last time we put a stop to it. I suggested she text him and then hesitated. She pushed the issue and sent the message. That pretty much killed the friendship but we are both totally fine with that. If I have filled up her love bank why does she still seem to want or like attention from guys?

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Or was she doing that for me and didn't realize what she was doing? Is it simply a maturity thing?

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Some people go out looking for affairs, irregardless of whether their spouses meets their needs.

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Done the whole sexy dance thing too - it doesn't mean as much to women who can't see it the way men do. Dancing is fun and the way your hips are hinged makes most dancing sexy - especially around your husband.

Originally Posted by Burned13
I want her to feel the same way. I want her to want to have the F off sign and wince at that kind of attention. About 6 months after there affair ended we went to a festival with another couple. The other couple are our next door neighbours and in their mid 20's. We had a few drinks and their was music playing. My wife loves to dance and we were headed into a building towards the washrooms. She grabbed a wall and did kind of a sexy dance type move. After I told her that was way offside and she was embarrassed and agreed.


You as the man had a valuable insight as to how this could look. She listened to that insight and will be better off for using the wisdom which comes from both genders being allowed to share their insights.

If she had brushed you off, been careless about your feelings or called you controlling then it's a red flag. If not, then it's all good practice for a PoJA lifestyle.

The wisdom of PoJA uses the best of the female brain and the best of the male.


Last edited by indiegirl; 01/29/15 02:03 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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