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Your maturity comment is a tad DJ-y.

She listens to your perspective. She 'pushes the issue' when she knows you're unhappy. You could have run the guy off yourself. It was mature of her to listen to concerns and act on them.

She's learning from her mistakes where I stand.

So- checklist done?



Last edited by indiegirl; 01/29/15 02:19 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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It concerns me that exposure is undone.

As a couple you have such potential to recover but you can't do it under a cloud of shame and secrecy.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by Burned13
I want her to feel the same way. I want her to want to have the F off sign and wince at that kind of attention. About 6 months after there affair ended we went to a festival with another couple. The other couple are our next door neighbours and in their mid 20's. We had a few drinks and their was music playing. My wife loves to dance and we were headed into a building towards the washrooms. She grabbed a wall and did kind of a sexy dance type move. After I told her that was way offside and she was embarrassed and agreed. What does that mean though? Does she do things like that to get the attention. Remember this is 6 months after and 6 months of me being a total rock star husband (and I really do mean that modestly but I have put 110% pedal to the metal to be a better husband). He has made a couple of comments about her looking good on a couple of occasions and the last time we put a stop to it. I suggested she text him and then hesitated. She pushed the issue and sent the message. That pretty much killed the friendship but we are both totally fine with that. If I have filled up her love bank why does she still seem to want or like attention from guys?

She may have been doing the dance for you and she may not have you need to ask her not just assume who she was doing it for.

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And don't keep worrying about the why, it really was just poor boundaries, most affairs start that way.

And if you keep recovering (as Melody Lane stated) and filling her love bank and she has good boundaries, it won't happen again. Just stick with the MB program and you will have a much better marriage.

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The key word is embarrassment; she's learning the hard way that her social manners are inappropriate and I found it embarrassing when that fact dawned on me. What's appropriate for the unmarried isn't OK for the married.

I'll always remember a young intern we had to send home because her clothes were more suitable for a party. She was mortified but it was good that we were honest with her.


Last edited by indiegirl; 01/30/15 03:03 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Burned, I'm going to jump in a tad here. There are several parallels that I can sense here, and where I was five years ago this month.

First off; calm your mind a bit. Don't think; DO.


Originally Posted by Burned13
I really want her to buy into it but ultimately she has to choose to enforce those boundaries within. I just don't know if she is mature enough to really know what she has with me.

I'll give you the secret to this part right here. For just three monthly installments of... just kidding.

I chose these two sentences because they are more related than you think (tossing aside the dig at "maturity").

If you want her to enforce boundaries "from within," then you have to SHOW her what she has with you. You have to MAKE something between the two of you. And that something is Romantic Love.

You are going to do that by eliminating habits in which you are using Love Busters, and creating habits where you are meeting her emotional needs. Most importantly, you are going to spend as much time as possible meeting the 4 intimate emotional needs of Intimate conversation, Recreational Companionship, and Sexual Fulfillment.

This means that you are going to take her out and have FUN. And talk. And dance. And talk. And hold her hand, and kiss her cheek. And tell her you love her. It means that you aren't going to ruin that time by "talking about your problems" or chiding her for doing a little shimmy.

Instead of chiding her, you could told her you loved her... and then if it really bugged you, bring it up LATER. AFTER you have had a good time, you could say "You know, it bothers me when..."

If YOU become her favorite companion, and make her feel treasured, she WILL begin to enforce boundaries.

Originally Posted by Burned13
If she knew for sure she would not get caught would she do it again no matter ow good to her I am? Would she find a way to convince her conscience it is okay? He has always made it clear he was available to her so yes she knew for sure she could have him if she wanted. How do I assess if her morals are screwed up or if it really did just boil down to being unhappy and low boundaries?

Overthinking again.

She didn't think she would get caught the first time. And by the time they are over the edge, they don't CARE if they get caught.

Boundaries are only PART of the solution here.

The majority of the solution lies in creating a transparent, interdependent marriage where there ARE NO opportunities to develop an affair, where there are no shrouds of secrecy for another man to meet her needs while you are unaware.

If you are spending every spare moment with each other, being each other's favorite companions, or fulfilling family time with your children (if you have them, I'm short on time) then there is very little time for an affair (the less, the better).

Focus on getting that UA time in, and you can shore up the boundaries along the way. The more in love with you she is, the more cooperative she will be in protecting what you build.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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I second the UA time advice. Im concerned that you were out with another couple when post-affair your UA should have been 20-25 hours a week. Leaves little time for friends.

Also if you had done exposure right it ensures you are only surrounded by people who support the marriage. I don't think that couple would've made that cut.

Your wife needs to feel surrounded and enclosed by you. Its like in Far From the Maddening Crowd "whenever you look up there I shall be� and whenever I look up, there will be you."

There's a great article on this I'm going to root out for you..



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by Dr Harley
I use a house as an illustration to help husbands understand how their wives feel. Each room in the house represents one of the husband's roles in life. There is a room for his job as a production manager, there is another for golf, another for his new sports car, one for his garden, one for his children, one for church, and, yes, one for his wife.

As he makes his way through an average day, he visits various rooms when he is faced with the role the room defines. And when he's in a certain room, the others are blocked out of his mind so that he can focus his undivided attention on the role he plays at the time. He does his best when he's not faced with distractions, and prefers to deal with each problem with all his energy and creativity so that he does the best he can in each role he plays.

The wives of most men are only one of many rooms in this imaginary house. It represents the "husband" role. When they are in that room, they usually try to give their wives undivided attention and make a special effort to meet their needs. They also go to that room to have their own needs met, particularly the need for sex.

What frustrates wives most is that they are relegated to only one room in their husbands' imaginary house instead of every room. In other words, they want to be integrated into a man's entire life, not relegated to one corner. Without such integration, there can be no emotional bonding, no uniting of the spirit, no feeling of intimacy and, in many cases, no sex.

To help husbands learn to avoid this unpleasant outcome, I have tried to show them how to become and stay emotionally connected to their wives by inviting them into each room of their house. They learn to become more than the role of "husband" to their wives. They learn to integrate their wives into every aspect of their lives.


Here:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html


Women are multitasking, holistic thinkers. We don't understand why a man needs to block us out in order to focus on other tasks. Even if we do understand, it doesn't solve the horrible sense of loneliness.

In no way does your independent lifestyle excuse or cause her affair. Even if you were in a coma she needs to block her love bank to others.

However the lack of an integrated lifestyle and undivided attention causes a great hunger. Most women fall victim to depression. Her choices were: endure the depression, tell you about it and the highly likely possibility of separation (which she probably did not want while hungry for ENs) or get a top up of attention elsewhere.

Its easy to see what the best choice is. But she chose the worst and regrets it.


Last edited by indiegirl; 01/30/15 05:02 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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To clarify the maturity comment was not a shot at her. It was meant to express a fear that she may not want to commit to good boundaries because she likes the attention. The dance was not an innocent shimmy she grabbed the edge of a wall at the end of it and ground down and back up in a very sexual manner. I suggested I was sure she didn't mean to do it but that kind of thing might invite unwanted attention from the guy or guys in general.

We had the boundaries talk last night. I started by explaining what good marriage boundaries are and how I have shown bad boundaries a couple times recently without realizing. Then I expained what we both need in terms of boundaricontinue he was a little short with me at one point like she was not committed to the conversation. I addressed it and she reeled herself in and apologized. We finished the conversation I think constructively. I am trying to put my insecurities at ease a bit and create a positive feeling so we can move forward. i will continue to encourage these MB princples and see how things progress.

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Originally Posted by Burned13
I am trying to put my insecurities at ease a bit and create a positive feeling so we can move forward. i will continue to encourage these MB princples and see how things progress.

SHE needs to stop doing things that make you insecure. When she does something inappropriate, you should tell her right away how uncomfortable it makes you feel. Ask her to stop. Don't be rude, but inform her of things that make you uncomfortable.

From what you describe, it sounds like she is looking for action. Where did she do this grind? Was she in a bar? Drinking?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Burned13
To clarify the maturity comment was not a shot at her. It was meant to express a fear that she may not want to commit to good boundaries because she likes the attention. The dance was not an innocent shimmy she grabbed the edge of a wall at the end of it and ground down and back up in a very sexual manner. I suggested I was sure she didn't mean to do it but that kind of thing might invite unwanted attention from the guy or guys in general.

We had the boundaries talk last night. I started by explaining what good marriage boundaries are and how I have shown bad boundaries a couple times recently without realizing. Then I expained what we both need in terms of boundaricontinue he was a little short with me at one point like she was not committed to the conversation. I addressed it and she reeled herself in and apologized. We finished the conversation I think constructively. I am trying to put my insecurities at ease a bit and create a positive feeling so we can move forward. i will continue to encourage these MB princples and see how things progress.


This was a trickier conversation than it needed to be because of the lack of exposure. If full exposure had been done she would be DYING for tips on showing improvements and restoring reputation.

As it is, she is quite un-foggy considering. There's a bit of fog and defensiveness there but usually without exposure the reaction is to call you controlling and jealous and stomp off to the nearest bar.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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We were at a food truck festival and yes we had some drinks. She did not grind with him or me she just was dancing and grabbed a near by wall end and did a very sexual grind down and up. It seems she tends to be a little more promiscuous when alcohol is involved. There was one other incident that made me uncomfortable. We were at a party with a lot of people we did not know. She got talking to a woman and of course we were all drinking. She was outside with this woman and her husband and they said they were leaving and I saw her hug the husband. She was going to hug the wife after but she saw my face and came to me immediately. It is not common for her to hug someone she just met and it was her that offered the hug not him. I talked to her about it and we both agreed it was not appropriate.

Our sex life was not spectacular previous to the affair. Since the affair it has become 10 times better and we have experienced things we have never before.

What do you mean looking for action please clarify. Also why would she be looking for action after what she did, all of the effort I have made to fill her love bank and make her life better?

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She was exposed to her family. Her Mom Dad and Sister all know about it. I decided I did not want my family to find out and have life long resentment towards her. Seeing how bad emotionally things get when the guilt hits her hard usually when we talked about it. Like I said near nervous break down type extreme emotional reactions.

She has made efforts to make me feel better at times. She has done a few very special things for me to try and show she cares. A lot more in the beginning. When we get into discussions about what she did or something related I keep asking why are you not begging for my forgiveness and treating me better. It feels like I have been the one begging for her forgiveness going so far to make her happy.

She has been struggling to get a hold of her anger and has lashed out at me a few times like the old her. I told her when I see those old bad anger habits it makes me feel like I am looking and talking to the person that decided to have the affair. She felt really horrible when I put it into that perspective and has tried hard to avoid that. I still just don't get the gut feeling that I am so important and valuable to her that she would do anything to keep me. That's a big reason why I am still struggling to feel comfortable inside.

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I should also add I found out after the affair that they had kissed once before years ago. We were all out drinking and apparently they kissed in the back of the cab while I was in the front seat. We had A LOT to drink that night. Our relationship has had ups and downs so I can't say her bucket was full back then either. Maybe that's the reason why she kissed him or just drunk and really really had a huge attraction to him. Thoughts???

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Originally Posted by Burned13
What do you mean looking for action please clarify. Also why would she be looking for action after what she did, all of the effort I have made to fill her love bank and make her life better?

Her behavior around men sends the message that she is very much OPEN FOR BUSINESS and is actively seeking attention. Hugging men, flirting and grinding in public is intended to send out that message.

You can fill her love bank all you want, but it won't make a difference if she is trolling for action.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Burned13
She was exposed to her family. Her Mom Dad and Sister all know about it. I decided I did not want my family to find out and have life long resentment towards her. Seeing how bad emotionally things get when the guilt hits her hard usually when we talked about it. Like I said near nervous break down type extreme emotional reactions.

That might not be a bad thing. I would suggest that she is a big girl and can handle this. It doesn't help her one bit to protect her from the consequences of her affair. As the mother of a 31 year old married son, I would not appreciate being left out of a such a serious event in my son's life.

Not sure, though, why you assume they would have "lifelong resentment?" Most family members just want to see you treated well.

Why don't you ask her to tell them?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Burned13
I should also add I found out after the affair that they had kissed once before years ago. We were all out drinking and apparently they kissed in the back of the cab while I was in the front seat. We had A LOT to drink that night. Our relationship has had ups and downs so I can't say her bucket was full back then either. Maybe that's the reason why she kissed him or just drunk and really really had a huge attraction to him. Thoughts???

I would avoid parties, drinking and most especially, old boyfriends/romantic interests.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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It seems she tends to be a little more promiscuous when alcohol is involved.
Everybody is. You may have answered this already, but I don't see it: Have you given up alcohol?


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So what does this mean? Why would she be wanting to troll for action and what can I do about it? We have talked about what to do in the event one of us sees the other crossing a line and that we will talk and refocus our attention on each other. What happens when I am not around? Do I have something to be worried about and what do I do? This is boiling down to the real reason I am reaching out for help. I DONT WANT TO GET BURNED AGAIN!!!! (not yelling just passionate)

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Originally Posted by Burned13
So what does this mean? Why would she be wanting to troll for action and what can I do about it? We have talked about what to do in the event one of us sees the other crossing a line and that we will talk and refocus our attention on each other. What happens when I am not around? Do I have something to be worried about and what do I do? This is boiling down to the real reason I am reaching out for help. I DONT WANT TO GET BURNED AGAIN!!!! (not yelling just passionate)

What you can do about it is eliminate the environment in which this happens. That means stop drinking, stop going to parties and avoid old romantic interests. Stay out of the environment in which either of you "cross the line."

She needs to make radical changes in her boundaries around men. She is a loose cannon.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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