I was just going to lurk (mostly) until I figured out what I needed to ask, but since I was called out on another thread, here goes:

I bought the book "Fall in Love, Stay in Love" yesterday and have read a little less than half of it so far.

My History: I was married at 17, he was 19.
We have three children: 16g, 12b, 10g.
We have been married 18.5 years.

I was a very wild teenager, drinking and partying started at 14.
He was very similar but had graduated school and was working in a local factory.

Basically to make a long story short, I do not love my husband. I have not loved him for a very very long time. I care about him as a person and I can enjoy his company for short periods of time as long as neither of us gets into anything deep or serious. He gets angry and is a very stubborn bully and I hate confrontation so I back off.

About 13 years ago I cheated on him with one of his good friends. I left for about a year, we had D papers filed and before they were finalized I stopped them and moved back in.

I was not going to give up my 3yo daughter and that was his condition for signing a no-fault, there were no other grounds at the time because I had no clue there was such a thing as emotional abuse.

I have told him many times over the years that I do not think I love him. That I want to leave. His replies have varied but he basically just ignores me and goes on about his life.

I have only recently been in a position to where I could leave and support myself and three kids. So I've felt like I have had to fake this life I have been living, just to keep the tension out of the household. I have been miserable.

There is a lot more story to tell but I don't want to write a novel.

I know this site is about saving marriages, and I didn't want to move out before giving this all one last shot to work. But I don't even know if I want to anymore. I've told him so many times over these years what I need from him and he always says that it's just not him and he won't do it.

He told me once that "this is who I am, take it or leave it". I'm tired of taking it and I'm tired of the way he acts towards the kids.

Did your H ever find out about your affair with his friend? Was this an emotional affair or physical affair?

If your H is unwilling to improve your marriage, then you are correct to prepare to separate and possibly divorce. Leaving may be the only thing that wakes him up if he has been dismissive of your complaints over the years.

Welcome to MB

Yes, he did know of the affair. I had left him already (because of other issues) and moved in with my mother and was still visiting my home, and this friend was there all the time also.

It was both physical and emotional and lasted about 9 months.

The other issues were that I had spent the past two years working my tail off and he (I now believe he was depressed) just sat around playing his guitar.

I was going to school full time, working full time, and then had to come home at midnight-ish only to take care of a baby and the household because he wouldn't.

Welcome to Marriage Builders.

While MB is all about saving marriages, it is not about saving all marriages under any conditions. MB is about saving marriages based on romantic love between the spouses.

Your marriage is a long way from meeting this standard. Your husband is clearly a freeloader. He is not going to change willingly; that is clear.

You should plan for a separation. When you are prepared, you should propose to your husband that the two of you follow the MB plan to restore the romantic love to your marriage. That means stopping love busters and spending a minimum of 15 hours each week alone with each other meeting each other's most important emotional needs. If he refuses at that point, then execute the separation plan.

Agreed!

Have you seen these articles yet?

When to Call It Quits (Part 1)

When to Call It Quits (Part 2)

Dealbreaker.

Would you be interested in Plan Aing him briefly or are you just done?

It's best if your affair has been exposed to your loved ones. They can help you avoid doing anything like that again and it prevents it being something your H can hold over you.

Plan Aing, followed by a separation is effective at motivating a stubborn spouse. It works best if you don't care much and have nothing to lose!

The family on both sides all know of the old affair. I have read the when to leave articles, and I will need to refresh myself on the plan A, My only problem with any of this is that even though I have told him I am having trouble (that this marriage is in trouble), If I pretend everything is good, he will think everything is good and do nothing.

I feel like i should say, he has had a job now since that bad year of our lives. He definitely knows how to work, he just does not know how to be a husband and father and refuses to take advice.

Once, about 6 years ago, when I was trying to tell him I was not satisfied with our marriage, he said I could leave, but that he would take the kids away from me and tell them I left because I didn't love them. This is the type of man I am dealing with; but no one see this face but me. Everyone thinks he is a great man.

This is why you shouldn't pretend everything is good. You should complain, and complain often. But complain without lovebusters -- without angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments or demands.

This is typical (and sadly common) manipulation, CJ. Your H could not take your children away from you. It doesn't work like that. Stop listening to this sort of foolishness from him. He uses idle threats to scare you. Stop reacting out of fear.

Mmmm.

It would be interesting to see what effect it would have if you were to shrug and continue speaking of your requirements for staying married when he does this.

He's trying to keep you - with unacceptable tactics, yes - but it shows your bargaining power.

If he doesn't know, tell him. If he doesn't do, lose him. The option remains his to get on board at any time.

Yeah, I know that now, but even then at 30yo, I was jobless and had no where to go and I was still trying to work through a lot of self-esteem issues.

I really have no idea what I want to do. I just know that at the moment I have no patience for anything from him. I don't want him to touch me. I don't want him to be nice, I already have such guilt for not loving him and I believe he loves me, whatever it is that he calls love.

I don't want to damage my kids, and if that means I live in misery then so be it.

But they are learning very unhealthy things about marriage. They also have an awful relationship with him.

My mother was always ready to go if she wasn't my father's queen. Guess what? He worshipped her. He expects me to have a similar husband and I do too.

Can I Plan A even if there is no adultery?
Can I Plan A if I move out?

He's not abusive physically and I don't think he would be if I left, He would probably yell and curse and such but I don't think he would hit me.

I do want my kids to have a healthy view of relationships.

I really want to get my son out of hubby's path of irritation. My son is not a stereotypical boy who likes outdoorsy stuff. My husband is and he gets so very mad/irritable when son does not want to do things with him. and then he yells and/or threatens son with punishment if son does not joyfully participate in whatever he is being forced to do.

It doesn't always happen this way but it's often enough.

Non PoJA is relationship cancer. Plan A is the best way to sell it.

If you read the call it quits articles it outlines Plan A in a non-infidelity situation.

Plan A also involves not taking any nonsense. If your husband gets angry and abusive leave the house with your son or call the police.

Simply unacceptable. He needs your perspective using PoJA - not to make unilateral decisions about your son.

I would ask Dr Hs advice on separation. Describe your Hs anger level and how it makes you feel.

Dr H takes a very dim view of anger in marriage.

You don't sound like you are in the frame of mind to get through even a short Plan A while living in the same house. You can be open to dating your H during a separation.

Given what you describe, I don't think Plan A will make any difference...especially since your H takes out his frustration on your boy when he doesn't want to do what his dad wants. H needs a major attitude adjustment in several areas. I would make plans to separate and not bother with Plan A.

x 3

When you separate, will you be moving out or having him move out?

When we separate I will be moving about 10-15 minutes away into a house my mother owns and will let me rent cheaply.

I have had a very small chat with H last night and told him we need to make a "date" to sit down and talk.

He works nights so I don't really have any interaction until Saturday (if he isn't working) and Sunday, but even then we have errands and things to get done that don't always involve us being able to be together.