I have a suggestion but need to run my kids to school.

Will be back...

14 12 9

I have read the link and thank you for your advise.

Yes I have made all the common mistakes I was lost in my feelings and wasn't thinking clearly at all.

I have finally woken up. I thought I had wrote everything the way it had all happened but finally after my head cleared I reread everything and seen that in my confused state I had left stuff out and rewrote it to clarify everything. I'm sorry about that I was just so emotionally in shambles.

If the children already know about your affairs then I would start by revisiting that since they already have an understanding of adultery and why the AP needs to be out of the picture. Something like:

Remember how I told you I cheated on your mom with OW#! and OW#2 and that I deeply hurt her ....your mom was angry and sad...well she starting talking to a man named Jack Ahole (be sure you identify who POSOM is by name) and started an affair with him. When I found out about her affair I should have tried to stop it but instead I was angry and had my affair with OW#3. Your mom said she had stopped her affair with OM but after that and more lies she went back to him. We were both wrong and have made very bad choices....the lying, cheating, etc. is ALL hurtful and solves nothing.

I would then apologize again for the damage/hurt you have caused and tell them OM is not a friend to their mom...friends don't help friends destroy their lives or support bad behavior. He is just as bad as the OW and you want him to stay away from their mom. Be very careful not to accept blame for WW's choice to have an affair. You can frame it so that they understand she was vulnerable to one given your affairs but it was still her choice to cheat and is wrong...and given that WW could cry you drove her to cheat you take care of that by acknowledging she was vulnerable but it was still her choice. If OM lives/works nearby or if you want to know if they have been around him you may want to offer that info or ask them.

I would also take the opportunity to make sure you put some life lesson nuggets in there...that there are consequences to hurting people and treating them poorly, deception and adultery is wrong, period, and that they should speak up if they see wrong doing, etc.

My two cents

I have probably a stupid question. I have gone two days without bringing up our relationship or the affair. We have been nice to each other but there has been little communication between us. I have expressed that I am open to talk anytime she feels that she would like to about anything and that I am here for her if she needs anything. I still tell her I love and that I miss her and try to express that to her without touching or anything like that and try to talk to her about little things. It feels like she is trying to avoid me though.

is that normal or is that a bad sign?

You need ADs if you are struggling. Talk to a good doctor.

Children have naturally just and fair reactions. Just tell them what's happening and who the man is.

Encourage.them to share any feelings for reassurance with their mother.

Thanks that is good advise. I will work on Putting something together.

I would lay off the I love yous. When my WH would tell me ILY, it would piss me off and I'd feel . Her avoiding you is normal. Your WW is not going to feel good for a long time regardless of what happens with your marriage. You need to STOP expecting to see signs of improvement or change on a daily, weekly, short term basis. That will not happen. Continue with positive actions and making yourself available and accountable. The one promising thing is she is still there.

Oh yeah I have also worked very hard not to commit any LB the last few days and think I have done really well at that.

Okay I will work on that. It's hard though cause when I see her even after every thing that has happened and is happening I just feel so much love for her. She is my best friend and the love of my life. I would like to fix everything.

It may be hard but suck it up.

I have noticed that when WW doesn't talk with OM for a day or two that the love in her eyes for me comes back and that she becomes more open with me and affectionate. We become close again then when WW talks to OM it all goes away and every thing becomes distant. That's the biggest way I can tell that she is in contact with OM.

Has anyone else experienced this?

It's the usual see saw. She needs both of you so she moves you around like pots on a stove top.

You have a very good chance if she realises that she's damaged her children's opinion of her for this silly game.

It may not kill the A immediately but it will take the shine off every interaction with him.

Here there's lots of good information and clips in here.
Exposing to Children

I have experienced very similar activity from my WW. Just before D day but after she asked for divorce, we would talk every night and she would soften up about getting divorced. The next day she would come home from work and be angry and resistant all over again.

A little back story on my oldest daughter. The first time that I had found out about her was when I received a letter for a paternity test. My wife and I her about to have our first child. My daughter was already 6 years old at that time. Her mother had moved away and we had not been in contact since she had moved away. The test came back positive. So I went to court for child support and to see about visitation. The visitation order was unacceptable because it was only a couple of hours every other week supervised. I should have fought it but I didn't.

Well my daughter and I started to have contact through face book when she was 16. First physical contact with her was when she was 17. Which was good except that I had never established firm boundaries with her because I felt guilty for never being there for her. That set it up for us to have an unhealthy relationship which we did. I never fixed that.

Well I would go visit her and we'd go to lunch or the zoo or even walk around the mall maybe about once a month. At this point I only had very little contact with OW related to our daughter. I use to pick her up and she would come stay with my wife and I and our three kids. That seemed to be okay at the time. But you could clearly see that we had an unhealthy relationship. In hind site I can see that she used that to her advantage and still tries to.

The affair with her mom was only 2-3 weeks long.
Fast forward to when I ended things with her mom daughter was 19 at this time. I had told her that I was ending things with her mom and that I had hurt my wife and kids very deeply and that I was sorry for that. I tried to set up boundaries with my daughter telling her that I would no longer be coming to st. Louis and that i didnt want to see or have any form of contact with her mom but that we could still have a relationship we would just have to meet halfway or you could come see me at our house.

She wasn't very happy about this, and still isnt. it had been been 9 months since I had seen my daughter. So when I went to st. Louis for hockey I decided to pick her up to watch the game and go to lunch. We met at the commuter lot which was good watched the game and talked and went to lunch. At which point I should've told my wife about this but I didn't which is beyond stupid and disrepectful. So I'm taking her back to the commuter lot and she tells me I need you to drop me off at my mom's. At this point I am just fuming and should have said no I will not. I let my guilt get to me and did it. Dropped her off and drove off with no contact with OW but the fact I was in her front yard was contact. Which I didn't tell my wife about and that really hurt her I was dishonest by ommission. This happened in Dec.

well I had told my daughter on the way to her mom's that this was unacceptable and this will never happen again. Well my daughter texts me this long text of you don't love me and all this over stuff. Which I show my counselor yesterday. I have been thinking about writing a no physical contact letter to my daughter until we can come to terms with something my wife, I and my daughter can all be excited about. My counselor agrees with me that it would be the best thing to do. My counselor thinks that she is trying to interfere with my marriage because she is angry. It is my fault though and I have to own that. But I will not tolerate her trying to interfere anymore in my marriage. My wife is very important and I don't want to hurt her.

My daughter has used every excuse under the sun why she can't meet me or stay with us. She is 20 and is an adult. She tries very hard to manipulate me every chance she can get. I feel I have finally come to terms with my guilt.

any ideas?

Yes - Expose to your kids.

I'm not being funny but this is my last post until the action is apparent because I shouldn't be taking this more seriously than you are.

Of course you should PoJA contact with your daughter - but currently you have a wayward wife whom you cannot PoJA with.

She is drunk on the affair and cannot be expected to speak truthfully or intelligently with you.

Thats your priority - right the sinking ship. Not chit chat about the port you will never reach because you are going down fast.

So, bye.

It's been awhile since I posted. I have exposed.

Things have been very up and down and I have committed some love busters but that has been greatly reduced.

Last Sunday my wife started to talk to me and opened up and told me that she had seen him about two weeks ago and that she lied to me about where she was going. She said that they didn't have sex though but did kiss. She said sex was never on the table because she was fully aware of this conversation. Also said it wasn't planned he just showed up. She told me she doesn't desire to see him or have sex with him, and doesn't know if it's in her best interest to keep messaging him. I expressed my feelings of hurt and desire to work things out but said it was her choice. She also told she told me because she wanted to and that she doesn't like how she is getting hers feelings of self worth at my expense, that it was weighing on her. Then I asked if she wanted to see him she replied no she didn't and that since she told me it would make it nearly impossible to see him and that was probably a good thing. And that she doesn't feel the relationship will go anywhere. Yet she continues to message him daily.


Well Monday she said she tried to not message him but did anyways. She also expressed a desire to go to counseling on her own. She told me she told him that she was going to start going to figure everything out. She also expressed to me that she was scared to lose him more than she was me. I expressed that I wished she cared for me as much as she did him she replied with I wish I did too. She said that when she told him about counseling he was quite and didn't really have anything to say about it.

I'm at a loss, I don't know what I should do at this point.

It's been awhile since I posted. I have exposed.

Things have been very up and down and I have committed some love busters but that has been greatly reduced.

Last Sunday my wife started to talk to me and opened up and told me that she had seen him about two weeks ago and that she lied to me about where she was going. She said that they didn't have sex though but did kiss. She said sex was never on the table because she was fully aware of this conversation. Also said it wasn't planned he just showed up. She told me she doesn't desire to see him or have sex with him, and doesn't know if it's in her best interest to keep messaging him. I expressed my feelings of hurt and desire to work things out but said it was her choice. She also told she told me because she wanted to and that she doesn't like how she is getting hers feelings of self worth at my expense, that it was weighing on her. Then I asked if she wanted to see him she replied no she didn't and that since she told me it would make it nearly impossible to see him and that was probably a good thing. And that she doesn't feel the relationship will go anywhere. Yet she continues to message him daily.


Well Monday she said she tried to not message him but did anyways. She also expressed a desire to go to counseling on her own. She told me she told him that she was going to start going to figure everything out. She also expressed to me that she was scared to lose him more than she was me. I expressed that I wished she cared for me as much as she did him she replied with I wish I did too. She said that when she told him about counseling he was quite and didn't really have anything to say about it.

I'm at a loss, I don't know what I should do at this point.

Even though she says she doesn't want to see him, i dont think that he will stop coming up here to try and see her. I definitely don't think she told him that either.or he would probably stop messaging her.