That is because this affair is taking place at work. I was in a very similar situation last year. When I discovered my wife's emotional affair with her boss, she promised to end everything, and I totally believed she did. All that really happened, is she started keeping things a secret. 6 months down the road I was devastated to learn how much deeper their affair had grown. I had no idea my wife was capable of lying right to my face, but when they are in the fog they will say anything to get you off their trial.

I think in your situation, your wife has just become better at hiding it. from what I have read of this thread, I have no doubt that your wife is still involved with the OM she had an EA with 6 months ago.

The hardest thing for me, before I even knew that my WW and OM were still involved, was the intense loneliness I felt, even when I was with my wife. Your wife has disconnected from you emotionally, because her needs are being met somewhere else.

IN ADDITION to continuing with your snooping (and not in place of), you want to be as pleasant as possible. This is 'Plan A.' You want to do your best to fill her EN's in any way possible, and avoid doing ANY love busters.

The way your wife writes about her feelings being rebutted, sounds like you have an issue with Disrespectful Judgements, so you might want to work especially hard to make sure you do NOT DJ.

Whether there is an A or not you want to work to entice her back into your marriage. If there is an A (there is) you need to be the better option. Even though she is getting some needs met by another man and has her love bank closed to you, you can continue to chip away at it by being the better option and showing her what marriage with you going forward would look like.

Do NOT discontinue snooping though.

Is there any way you can snoop on her at work?

A PI should get you the information while she's engaging in her affair at work.

ive tried to think of ways to snoop at her job... best i can do without really breaking the law is see if her car is there which wont prove much, or on occasion if i get to her phone can see work emails. There is really no way of me recording in person chats or phone calls in the office.

A PI would be very effective, because I bet you they leave for lunch together. You need to find out what kind of car he drives, and have a PI, or a good friend watch that car during lunch hours. The reason your VAR isn�t turning anything up, is because they are using his vehicle. Also, the reason you never heard anything suspicious on her calls to friends and family, is because this is a secret she is keeping from everyone. They are being very careful. One thing is for sure in your situation, and that is your wife is getting her emotional needs met by someone besides you.

Another thing that would be effective, is to get a VAR in his car(legal?), or possibly one of the GPS units that tracks real time. Then you could see when they left to lunch.


Don't give up. There is evidence to be found. She just learned her lesson last time you found out, and she is a lot better and keeping her addiction a secret, because she doesn't want to lose it.

I would put a tracking device on her car. The one I bought from Amazon is called the GPS tracking key was made by a company called LandSeaAir.com. They sell several types of devices but thats cheapest device with no monthly fees. Think I paid around $120 for it.

It's so simple to use, you just put two AAA batteries in the device, put it in the car and then retrieve it at a later date. Then insert the device directly into your laptop via a USB port. You can watch the vehicle track in Google Earth.

I know what he drives.. He isn't in the office everyday and I have occasionally driven by during all different hours including lunch. His job keeps him all over the island at times and sometimes in NYC, all while she is in the office. I can not put a VAR in his car, that would be beyond illegal. Only other thing mentioned so far i can possibly do is PI... also as far as GPS... For a few months i had a GPS tracking on her phone. an app that we both had, It updated every 10 min with location. While it was on, i believe about 3 to 4 months time frame after i found the phone calls, She was always where she was supposed to be and hardly took lunch, she usual brings it. Im well aware she could have just left her phone at the office and went out, but her job requires her phone for access to email and phone calls all day. She would never just leave her phone, she is to devoted to her job. as i mentioned before, her job is prioroty one, more so then our marriage and even our kids...

Or she could do what most people do in workplace affairs: just fool around at the office.

So so far all week. I've check the recordings and nothing yet. It's been about week and half now of VAR and nothing. Today I stopped by her office. She is working all weekend cause her office is moving to a new office. I got there and he was there too. We were introduced and shook hands. He was there helping her clean up her area. A few other people were there too. He doesn't work for her or in her department. Not sure why he was helping other then just being nice or more of an attachment. I've been thinking about messaging his wife on FB with a fake account. Saying something like. Just want you to be aware. Your husband is having inappropriate relationship with women in the office I don't want to lose my job so I'd rather stay anonymous. But felt you should know. Good luck. What do you think? And is that what I should say? I just can't have it tied back to me at all. If I'm wrong it will not be good for me at all if its known it came from me. Thoughts?

Dr Harley never recommends "exposing" anonymously. For one thing it's cowardly, and for another, its ineffective. It is not real exposure. The recipient will not take what she sees as a piece of malicious gossip seriously. She will take hard evidence from the other spouse seriously, but what is she supposed to to do with this non-report? And how will you know if she realises that the other person you are hinting at is your wife? How will you ever know if she acts upon it? How is she to report back to you about whatever she finds out?

The point of exposure is to enlighten her, not to confuse her, or worse, make her throw your tip into the bin.

Dr Harley says that you must present evidence that will convince a jury of an affair, and you must say who you are when you give it to her. Don't ask his wife to do the job you should be doing, of spying effectively.

If your means are not turning up any hard evidence, you need to do as we have recommended about a dozen times, and hire a PI. You'll get the goods on this is two days.

The issue is. So far I don't have hard evidence. Just suspicion. And I suspect it's purely emotional and a friendship that isn't all professional. This is eating at me and I want his wife to investigate on her own and even maybe get on him a bit. In hopes he will back off. I do not want my name attached to this. Cause with all the snooping already done. No evidence yet. And I don't know how much longer I can take this.

I know all that. You've explained that before, including in the post above. I responded to that post. Why are you making the same points over again?

I don't know. I'm just so sad right now and heartbroken. I just want to crawl into a whole and disappear. I don't know what to do anymore. I just want her back and right now I'm losing my strength to go on. I'm sorry if I'm a pain in the a$$. But I'm devastated. Yesterday was our anniversary and I'm just crushed.

What are your sleeping arrangements now? Does she still stay at her mother's on therapy days, and are you still sleeping in separate rooms? Does either of you stay anywhere else at any time?

What is the status of her wish to separate from you? Is that still her plan?

It's not clear. I haven't slept out in about 2 to 3 weeks. She has only slept at her moms in Thursday's since she asked for seperation on Dec 30 th. This past Thursday she didn't sleep out. We have taken turns sleeping in a blow up mattress downstairs while the other sleeps in our bed. However this past Thursdsy she said to me she is exhausted and knows it's her turn downstairs but she really wanted to sleep in bed. She said I can too but don't take it the wrong way. She has worked all weekend and we have slept in the same bed all weekend. Last night it wasn't even a discussion. I was in bed watching tv. She came in and layed down. We chatted about everyday stuff and said good night. My aunt and uncle invited us to dinner tonight. I asked her if she wanted to go. She said yes. I also got an invitation for a cousins wedding in april on Saturday and she was interested in going. I got her a card and gift for our anniversary and she loved it. But she didn't get me anything. I didn't really expect anything either. We also skipped this past weeks marriage counseling she didn't want to go saying she had s really busy week with her office move and she feels it just stirs the pot. So I canceled it and asked her about next weeks session. She said we would still go. There is no affection no kissing or anything. But she hugged me to thank me for the gift and the last few mornings we wake up with our daughter in our bed. My arm extended out cause my daughter is laying on it and Ive had my hand on my wife's shoulder or arm. I've rubber her shoulder and she hasn't pulled away or said anything. There was another morning she sat in bed and we talked and I put my hand on her leg a bit. She didn't say anything then either. In our last MC session 2 weeks ago. The counselor said to her... What do you want to do here? Do you want to continue with me and work on this? Do you want to see another therspist to help seperate? Do you want to work on communication? Do you want to see a sex therapist to work on passion? Do you want to go to a mediator? Do you want to continue seeing me while you continue what your doing which is kinda a trial seperation? Her response was. Can I process this? He said of course. We will see you next week. So I really don't know what she wants anymore. That same night her and I talked at home. She said she is just shut down right now and struggling to turn it back on.

It is sad that you are wasting your time with a "counselor" who has no intention of saving your marriage. This is why it is so dangerous to see a counselor when there is an affair involved. Most counselors have no earthly idea how to save a marriage and don't understand the dynamics of the wayward fog. This counselor, for example, is doing nothing to save your marriage but is doing everything to validate your wife's wayward fog. It would be like trying to satisfy the desires of a falling down drunk or a crack head.

This counselor is going to help your wife get divorced, when your marriage could be saved. We can help you save your marriage, but you MUST get the evidence of the affair. You just MUST. The true reason for her desire to get a divorce must come out in order to save your marriage. If you can get the evidence we can help you save your marriage.

I would also suggest that you drop the pretense of this fake "separation." You are not "separated." Sleep in your bed every night and stop cooperating with this silliness. You are NOT separated but a wayward will use this pretense as a justification to cheat on you. All you do is enable a wayward's marriage wrecking behavior by going along with this pretend "separation."

This is helping your marriage? Exactly HOW? A "trial separation" is a trial for divorce. Not that you are really separated.

Can you explain how this "counseling" is helping your marriage?

ESL, what bothers me about all this is how you are allowing your self to be railroaded straight to divorce court. If you will get the evidence, we will help put you back in control of your life and your destiny. You are operating at a huge disadvantage right now because you do not have the facts about your life. You are being played and gaslighted.

Getting the evidence will put you back in control of your life - we will show you how. When that happens, you will not feel so devastated because you will have a CLEAR PLAN to save your marriage. As it is now, no one is trying to save your marriage. The counselor is not and your wife is not. Get the evidences, Sir. We will help you save your marriage if you do. You will feel like a NEW MAN.

No. He was there when he doesn't need to be because he is having an affair with your wife, ESL.

It should be shocking that despite all the red flags and the endless amount of posters telling you this is an affair, that you still don't want it accept it. But it's not.

Denial is a real big problem here on the MB101 forum. I cannot tell you over the years HOW MANY posters come back saying "you were right" or "I should have listened".

You CAN recover after an affair, but you need to address the problem head on and stop sticking your head in the sand. There are countless mistakes being made right after another, despite your posting on these forums because you are following Plan ESL, which as you can see for yourself - isn't working.

We can help you step by step. But are you ready to start listening??

This should hopefully be clear to you by now, but it may not be since you seem to be in such a deep denial.

What you did here is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we would have advised you to do. You put your W on notice that this guy is on your radar and that you are checking her phone records...snooping.

Not only did you have a confrontation with her about this....it has been hashed out in counseling.

In other words, she is communicating with him by other means than her cell phone (when not at work - affair phone, etc). And she is being careful.