nb - thanks. I don't know if it's la-la land or not. Thanks for the hugs.<P>Sweetpea - I thought about drugs before. But when he went to the hospital after his seizure, they checked - that's the FIRST thing they checked for. Nothing. But a lot of money is going away.<P>Nellie -Funny thing is, on Tuesday, he WAS looking me in the eyes. And I really believed he was telling me the truth. I don't know anymore. Thanks for the good thoughts.<P>lori

Lori,<BR>Don't rule out the drug idea. If he was doing drugs, they don't have to tell you. They don't have to tell anyone. It is the law. Same for teenagers.<BR>Bad law.<BR>Connie

Lori, I think when he looked you in the eye wasthe truth and today is a lie. My H said the same thing. When he left to break up with OW he asked me to go with him, if only. I asked him why he asked me he said to be polite. Does that make sense. No the lies are what they are living now. The truths are how they feel about us. I only wished I had gone but I didn't. I don't understand the hold the OW have over our Hs. But one thing I am sure of is that they are lying to themselves. Because every spouse that leaves becomes mean and hurtful, very unlike themselves normally. I think that is the guilt and th fact that they are now living a lie and the only way they can do that is to lash out at us. I know why my H won't contact me or his family because if he did he would have to admit that what he has done is wrong and he is lying to himself. <BR>I know it really worries about what is happening to his money. I wonder if leaving you and your d if he is trying to protect you both? Since you have ruled out drugs, wha about gambling, or mixed up in sometype of shady deal? <BR> I wish I knew some way to help you but I again I'm here if you need to talk<BR>{{{{HUGS}}}}<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Hi Lostva -<P>OK - What the heck is going on around here? <P>I am away from this board for a weekend and come back to all hell breaking loose all over the place.....<P>Was there a full moon that I didn't see?<P>Have you calmed a little? You know that this is hogwash from a very big bovine!!<P>Simply MR HYDE trying to take over the personality again.....that's OK cuz his visits are getting few and far between!!<P>You know that he is playing mr martyr!!!<BR>It's part of this ridiculous thought pattern of "I'm such a bad boy"....<P>He is trying to make you hate him and get you away from him cuz you deserve better......He thinks that this will do that!!! Weeeeeeee....that's how messed up he is Lori!!!!<P>I know that it is of little comfort when you have to experience the venom and sting of the words!!! Been there...<P>You have a good cry....but cry for the right reasons!! It is not you and you and H did (and will again!!) have a good marriage. That's why he is using this bull.....cuz that will get to you!!!<P>I really think that a lot of this is just his phsychological problems with your dad's death and his own unstable issues with not measuring up (to what? - I have no clue!!!)<P>I think that this hit you harder than it normally would have because you missed out on yesterday's party....that hurt you!!! <P>Have you talked to MIL today?<P>Talk to me woman!!!!!<P>HUGS and PRAYERS for you,<P>Sheba

Long live the Waffle king...... Lori, You know what he's doing. He felt good about being with you and talking with you and now he had a few days to think about it and he is scared...... Waffling. I just E-mailed you. Stay strong and remember we are here for you.......

Hello Lostva,<P>I don't belive it's drugs. Somewhere inside the mess of a man before you is the man you married. The turmoil inside his head and heart explain his erratic behaviour. Trying to seek explaination in drugs, or gambling, is trying to find a simplistic answer where one doesn't exist.<P>Sure money is missing, but it could be just a lifestyle change, a way of seeking instant gratification in movies, dinners out, vactions, clothing etc, whilst the real need, and desires are left unacknowledged. This would leave him unhappy, and if he is not a introspective, reflective type of guy, he might think that one more movie, or trip, or dinner might bring him pleasure. And maybe it does, for a minute or two, but then the unhappiness creeps in, and the cycle starts again.<P>I agree with distressed. Only believe 50% of what he does. I believe that when he encounters you, and you do not castigate, or black ball him, but treat him with kindness and love, it tears him up. How can you forgive him if he can't forgive himself? He will never fully accept your love, or feel free to feel it until he learns to forgive himself and accept what he has done. Until then, he might be angry with you (but mostly himself) for not giving him the anger and pain that he believes he deserves. And as a result, he treats you in such a way that might bring those outbursts. He believes that if he pushes you far enough, you'll agree that he's not worth it, not deserving, and that you'd be better off with-out him. <P>Subconsciously I think this is where he (your H)is at. This is where I belive my H is at. He does the same thing. He can't look me in the eye, and face the pain, and feel the love, without hating himself.....and so he lashes out instead, out of frustration, pain and guilt. Incredible guilt. They believe that it's easier to walk away than to face these truths about who they've become. The long road home appears too steep for them to climb, and at the moment they don't have the energy to even contemplate such a journey. So instead they make camp where they can, and try to make that work (submitting to the OW requests, etc). But the unhappiness, and the failure to deal with this unfinished business is always lurking under the surface. One day they will realise it, and summon all their strength to make the long journey home, to self acceptance and forgiveness. It will be at this point that he will be able to accept and receive your love, and truly love again.<P>Corny I know, but believing this helps and comforts me. I hope it does this for you too.<P>-all the best, Raenbow

You hang in there, Lori. I'm thinking lots about you. <P>Start pampering yourself. Take D with you for a makeover. Rent some "feel good" movies. Pretty up the house. Think about YOURSELF, and start gearing your plans to what makes you happy.<P>When he has his change of heart (and he will), then decide how you feel. But put those thoughts on hold, for right now. <P>Okay? Get all those tears out, and get happy.

Hi, guys, thanks so much. I'm somewhat functional this morning.<P>I'll answer one of Sheba's questions first. I HAD talked to MIL. She called me this morning. Sundays' party. Mom told PT she had our presents, she wanted to bring them in. PT cried, said she couldn't take it, her nerves were too bad. As mom walked away, she said "If he brings ANYTHING to my house that THEY gave him, I'll tear it to shreds!" A little later she saw Robert. Told him about the presents. He said "I want them NOW!" and grinned. She told him what PT had said. "If she ever touches anything from my wife, that's the last mistake she'll ever make!" "What is the present, MOM". She sorta gave him a hint. He got excited. "You understand,don't you, Mom? You understand about Lori and me" and gave her a big hug. "I don't understand anything except that she loves you, H". Then you do understand. He also told me on the phone that he missed our seafood dinner for his birthday. He hadn't had seafood since he took me to dinner on our way home from our last little mini-vacation. Mom found out from PT that he DIDN'T go out of town on Saturday (his b-day). He sat home all day. Mom was SOOOO excited after the party. Said everything he did and said showed how he felt. He said he'd come to her house to get his gifts.<P>OK another reason I was so upset. I got in the mail today an anonymous letter. It was a photocopy of something I had written. Several items were hi-lited in yellow, marriage was crossed out in blue and in red across the whole page it said "The game is over Lory, I know the truth. All over." He and I had also talked about this. That's actually when he started getting mean.<P><BR>TNT - YUK!<P>SDS - think so. Maybe it IS easier to lie by phone. Thanks for all your kind words. And I needed the extra hugs!<P>Sheba - who knows what's going on here??? Sorry, couldn't talk anymore last night. Don't even know what to say this morning. I wrote him a letter after we hung up. Mailing it today. To her place. It's not mean, just sweet, supportive and confused. I talked about the things he said on Tuesday. I sure hope she doesn't open it.<P>Rutger - I like lecturing you better on wafflng than having to deal with it myself! Oh, well. Got your e-mail. Take care of yourself. I'll get back to you.<P>Raenbow - You know I see it sometimes - him, I mean.From what I hear though, they're not going to movies or dinner or anything. He didn't even take her out for her b-day. Just bought her some balloons. I held my own last night. Just kept telling him he had to forgive himself. I believed in him and loved him. Of course it made him angrier. It definitely seems easier to walk away and he's still sticking by that "not look back" stuff. Sometimes it's hard to hope.<P>Lucks - Glad you're here. We'll try to do something fun (as long as it doesn't COST anything!) Working on the other part.<P>Thanks, everyone. Gotta go get dressed for work now. He's coming by to hunt next Monday for opening day. Probably won't talk to him until then. UNLESS PT opens the letters I sent to his place. We'll see.<P>Lori<p>[This message has been edited by lostva (edited November 09, 1999).]

Lori,<P>I don't know the whole story but from what I did get from it he is not sure of himself. I do not want to give you false hopes but the same thing has happened to me and we are just coming out of it....very slowly. <P>What happened to me was that W was just as unsure and I could see that. So could OM. OM had a great deal of influance on her and told her that if she were to make a decision, then make it and make it final. Thats when it got crewel. I want so badly to forgive some of the things that were said but things are very slow. Anyway, OM had caused much of the flipflop as he was threatened but at the same time, was trying to be supportive to her true feelings. In this situation W was also OW to OM's W and they were just feeding off of each other's feelings. I had talked with OM and I think that he may have begun to believe that I had been correct in that though our marriage was not picture perfect, that he was the cause of the pending divorce. Heck, W did not believe that at the time and to this day, I think that she resents that I thought that. I guess what I am saying that alot of what he is saying to hurt you may be prompted from another source other than himself.

Stile - I'm pretty sure the rush to see a lawyer and maybe his reaction toward me was the result of her getting upset (If you haven't yet, read "Sweetie attacked H!!). She definitely was NOT a happy girl when she found out he was here on Tuesday.<P>Thanks for your thoughts. I guess I know what's happening, just wish it made it easier to take. Wish I knew what to do to make it easier on him.<P>Keep up the good work on "getting there". I'll be pulling for you.<P>Lori

Lostva: I would have to agree with the others, your spouse obviously is confused and majorily lost. The sad part is he is(possibly not knowing he's doing it) trying to confuse you too. I am sending you a spiritual hug to comfort you and a cyber Kleenix to dry your sad eyes. It sounds like you have done everything possible to keep the doors open for him. He has refused the opportunity and has chosen a more destructive route. Remember, whatever the outcome, you did your best! He has to accept responsibility for his own actions and the OW will reap the benefits of his behavior(sarcastic remark on 2nd half of statement). If he was truly happy in this relationship with ms.sweetie pie, he wouldn't act so miserable. Believe me it won't get any better with or for her. <BR>Now concentrate on taking care of yourself. I will pray for your life to move forward and upward. As I am trying to do currently to not focus so much on doom and gloom, focus on doing something nice for yourself. I visited with a friend this weekend. We both talked, cried, chuckled at her cute weird dog and ate great ice cream. She was the blessing that I needed to make it through my down time. It may take time before you feel comfortable, but remember you are a special person of great importance who is definitely loved.<BR>I know this sounds bizzare, but sometimes when I am down, I will think of a commercial I caught on TV one day I was not doing well. The scene is of these two children(on a stage setting) lost in the woods and they are talking with each other on how they were going to find their way out. One of them says: I know who can help us. From the upper left hand corner appears a fairy princess swinging from a cord(giving the appearance of flight). As the fairy princess is talking with the children, all of sudden the cord breaks and she falls flat on the stage. It was an advertisement for some sort of string. I know she could have been seriously hurt, but I bursted out laughing so hard that tears came to my eyes. For a moment, I found joy. My love to you and hope that you will find joy.

Lori,<P>I think it is significant that he started getting mean after you discussed the photocopy of the letter. I think this is definitely related to PT's reaction to his eating dinner with you.<P>One day this summer my H came over to visit the kids. It was really hot and they wanted to go swimming, and he hadn't brought his bathing trunks, so I suggested I could come back early and take them swimming in our pool, and he said he didn't have a problem with that. When I left, he was cheerful - when I came home he was on the phone to the OW, and when he hung up he was like a different person - irritable, withdrawn, etc. Two days later he sent me an email saying that he wouldn't eat dinner with us anymore, like he had been doing sometimes. He also stopped visiting the kids at our home. <P>I don't know where the OW's get this power over them. I sometimes wonder if my H is so afraid that he will be left with nothing if their relationship falls apart that he accedes to all of her demands. He certainly never would have let me control him like that.<BR>

Hi Lostva -<P>How are you doing today? <P>Glad that MIL filled you in on the B-Day happenings......(teehee!!)<P>You know, I was thinking that it would be a darn shame if she read your letter about his REAL feelings that he expressed on Tuesday!!!! LOL!!!<P>This letter photocopy...was it a copy of something from OW or H? I got confused on that......<P>And wonder why you would have a reoccurance of this being sent...not very original ....... <P>You hang in there Lori!!! This is going to all go away sometime real soon!!<P>HUGS and STRENGTH and of course, the ever including PRAYERS,<P>Sheba

Sobeit - thanks so much for the thoughts. I could use a good day like that too. You know, I never saw that commercial but I can picture PT falling........ (oh, bad Lori!)<P>Nellie - I also found out that she called him at MIL's right after he arrived (she knew he was coming to get our presents). I think you may be on to something.<P>Sheba - ok, I forget that I don't post EVERYTHING. It was a copy of something that I had written. The only person I know of who could have gotten their hands on it is......you guessed. He keeps all my letters in his car.<P>This better go away soon. OHH, found out something else this afternoon. Mom heard h raise his voice in the other room on the phone. She questioned him "You weren't talking to Lori, were you? You sounded upset." (Well, yes he was, but...) "No, I called PT to tell her I was gonna be late and she gave me a ration of s$$$! I get so damned mad at that b****!" <P>Now, it wasn't true. Mom called her and checked (she's a pip!), but he didn't want mom to know he was yelling at me AND he trashed PT in front of her. Got any ideas why?<P>Lori

Lori,<P>Maybe H is wrestling with loyalty issues. My H has said to me how he has sploit loyalties to me and her and he needs to commit to one of us and devote all the loyalty to that person (guess it is her right now <P>Anyway, I agree with others - PT probably has been giving him a bunch of [censored] over the dinner he ate with ya'll and probably over the BD card and gifts, too.<P>She has the influence over him right now, because he has GIVEN her that power. I don't know a man alive who likes to be dominated by a woman. Their relationship has got to eventually fail if for no other reason in that H will get tired of OW dominating his life and telling him what he can and can not do. Especially when it comes to cutting off his relationship with D. <P>PT is an insecure B!@CH!!! Your H is too confused.<P>He needs to have time to sort out what HE WANTS out of life - NOT what the OW will ALLOW him to have. Any loving fahter will surely want his D in his life, and sounds like your H has been that until the arrival of PT. Especially is she keeps pushing her own child on him, he has to realize how much he loves and wants to be a part of his OWN D's life.<P>I am really HURTING for you. Hope today is better. I have been really busy and not on-line much at all.<P>Thinking good thoughts of you, today....<P>Roll Me Away

Lori, I know that confusion thing well. Don't get sucked in by it. I just read Sheba's post about how she is just going to take things as they come. Hey that's words to live by believe me. Just blow him off. He really doesn't know what he wants and if he's to blind to see what a good thing he has there with you then to hell with him. (please excuse the french) Don't get me wrong, I want things to work for you, but you are my friend and I hate to see just how crappy he treats you. I know that I've been kind of absent lately here but I do think about you alot. <P>love, Jill

RMA - You're right. He says she doesn't just get upset and angry with him, she "freaks out!". He's the type guy who always thought couples should never argue, I know he's just loving that. Thanks so much for your good thoughts. They help.<P>Hi, Jill. I read your thread. I'm glad you guys are doing great, sorry you're having to go through so much. Thanks for stopping here for a minute. I think about you guys all the time.<P>Lori

Gee, Lori, if I had listened everytime my H said it was over...well I wouldn't be hanging at MB every day...<P>Tonight my H came to pick up the kids (his night with them). I feel yucky--bronchitis, stone deaf in one ear (y'all are glad I'm not sneezing on you, aren't you?). So, at 4 pm I was in bed, I didn't expect him until after 5, and he walks in. He laid down with me and asked if there was anything he could do for me...<P>But unfortunately, I do feel wretched and there isn't anything he can do for me. "Move home!" isn't exactly the kind of thing I want to suddenly yell. But he's told me at least a dozen times he can't be the husband I want. Then who was the guy asking me what he could do for me?<P>I'm too unwell to let my head spin this much.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)<P>

HI LORI, <BR> I thought I posted to this last night sorry... I agree with most here. I'm still pretty new here but I know just from "Life Experience that when someone is too much of "ANYTHING" they're lying. <BR> This whole affair think is really a "Tug of War" between good and evil.<BR> Sounds like Evil just tugged back after Tuesday.<BR> He HATES himself right now. He's confused.<BR> Here's what he's wrestling with.<BR> YOUR SIDE:<BR> Tremendous Guilt.<BR> Feelings of being SOOO stupid and selfish.<BR> Fear that things will just go back to the way they were (an unhappy marriage)<BR>Your D's eyes.<BR>Your eyes.<BR>Commitment with a LOT of rebuilding. Lots of PAIN.<BR>The fear you will NEVER (really) let him forget this.<BR>FAILURE<P>PT's side:<BR> The HOPE of something new. A chance NOT to make the same mistakes.<BR> Guilt that (he thinks) goes away with time.<BR>NO PAIN.<BR>Commitment without WORK (so he thinks)<BR>No JUDGEMENT of him.<BR>AND last but certainly not least. POP TARTS AND FROZEN BACON!! Hard to resist isn't it? <BR> Let the GOOD tug back. Don't give up till the toaster POPS!! <BR> You've been a lot of encouragement and help to me Lori. I hope this helps. <P> GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS FRANK<BR><P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

Lor - OOHHHHH, sorry your feeling bad!! I hate that. Thanks for the encouragement though. I need it.<P>Frank - Just what I really needed. A good dose of logic in the midst of this confusion and chaos!! (Seriously, I have that "gotta make sense of it" kinda brain) Thanks a ton.<P>Lori