I never heard from Dr. H

My biggest issue right now is that we have an 8 month old to raise. I suppose I still feel obligated to give the relationship another chance for the sake of our son. And somehow I still love him and want to help him. Ugh. I disgust myself. I have been sharing everything with my father to receive an outside objective. He helps me see all the ways that he had been manipulating me and is helping me stand up for myself. My dad gave me a much needed lesson on self worth and I am already feeling better and learning how to set standards. In just two days I have already called him out on his crap and have begun setting the rules. I am coming home in my own time not his. He is already responding differently to me and acknowledging his faults. I wish I could just disappear and never look back, but in my state, the paternal father has just as many rights. I will return with my son in two weeks. If it were a reasonable distance to travel back and forth with our son, I would not return. I am tempted to return to the relationship, especially since I will feel alone when I return. But I really wish to start a new life for myself. I will return and set and demand certain expectations. I wish to remain cordial with him but I hope to not engage in intimacy of any kind. I'm hoping that my time away will help me drive a wedge between reality and my faux attachments and dependencies; as well as send him a serious reality check. I may ask him to move out. I hope I can follow through with that... I plan to continue individual therapy and may possibly move foward to couples counseling if that time comes... Whether I want it to or not.... I have contacted a lawyer and will follow through with a few legal preparations to protect myself if I do need to fight for custody.

_________________________
Would would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

That's perfect for me actually. Thank you.

If I were not afraid of the struggle, I would leave him; and that says everything. I will do my best to remember that

You're so right and I have been there myself.

Happier now.

Hit notify and ask the MODS to contact Dr. Harley about your email.

I do not think 2 weeks apart would be enough to make a difference. You need to do better than that. He scared now, yes, but he will not change. You need to stay at your family place for several months. I would also apply for the custody. I don�t think he is capable to take your child when you come back to him, but remember that right now he can take your child away when you are at work and file for custody and make you leave the house or whatever can come in to his mind. You cannot take any chances. It sounds as you projecting your fantasy reunion in to real situation. You made very important step toward better future, do not give up your position. He is not going to do all the counseling- he will probably behave for a while and then go right back to whatever he used to do that you had problem with. Do not trust anything he says right now. Protect your custody. What are your living arrangements? Do you rent or own your home? I do not see him agreeing to move out. If he moves out, he is likely will be back 2 days later, saying- it is his place and he demands to be there. You will have to change your door locks to keep him out. He may become aggressive and try to scare you in to opening doors for him. You need to stay with your family. It is too early to make up with him. No agreement will be followed. And what will you do if he signs agreement with you and then not follow through? I personally believed- your decision to do it was premature- you could plan it better. I see it difficult to come back and ask him to leave. I will be surprised if he does and actually behaves respectfully and give you and your child space. That would be a nice test. But I have a feeling- he will drag you in to the premature reconciliation. I would give it 2 months. At least one month. No two weeks. He ein�t goin� anywhere. Take your time. Or tell him- you will consider to come back in town if he leaves the house and let you stay there without any pressure from him, until he makes reasonable changes. Here is an article for you to think about the custody issues: http://www.lawfirms.com/resources/child-custody/child-custody-basics/custody-out-of-court.htm

He keeps manipulating me. He is trying to pin me against my family. Making me feel guilty about taking his kid out from under him with no warning-- although he is doing this passively by telling me he understands why I've done it and that he knows it's his fault, and guilty about having my son in my parent's house where my mother is still emotionally abusive to my father and my brother and sometimes my baby sister. He is making me feel guilty for abandoning him when he has been doing everything that I've asked and I've only given him a couple months with proper treatment to change himself. He is owning up to all of his faults.. He even used enlistment (given that he knows I'm super against it because I fear it) to guilt me into coming back to him. He calls me constantly and freaks out when I don't answer. He "keeps throwing up" because of the anxiety. Which Im sure he actually has, but he always lies about "throwing up". Another guilt tactic that he keeps throwing in my face. He tells me that if I'm going to stay that I need to just do it and he will see his kid once a month because I will do what I want... And then the next minute he is saying that I can't just keep his kid from him. He cries every time. He is using a lot of empathy for my feelings and what he has done to me to charm me to come home. He aknowledges his faults and admits that he has messed up. But then uses his childhood abuse and his sex addiction to excuse his actions. I have to stop talking to him, because everytime
I do I fall for his crap. I don't know left from right anymore. My head is so messed up. I read into emotional abuse AGAIN and reminded myself on the reality and gravity of the situation. I reminded myself that my son and I do deserve better. I almost texted him this after we skyped and cried together for an hour.... I end every call with "I love you", he apologized for getting upset and for my feelings toward him and had me promise to answer his call after he collected himself. And I promised but I didn't answer, instead I came back here for some advice and support.

I almost texted him this just now:
"
Google emotional abuse. Because that it what our relationship is. Yes it resulted from our childhood, but I've let you emotionally abuse me for 8 years--- that is why I felt like I needed to run away. Because I didn't even have the courage to leave you. Why wait for you to maybe change? EVERYBODY can see it, but me. Because I keep falling for your charm and manipulation. I am away from you and I feel great for the first time in a long time. Do I love you? Terribly. Do you love me? I'm sure of it. Do I feel empathy for you? Absolutely! Do you want me to? Absolutely. Yes you seem to be improving but how do I know that will last? How do I know that it's not part of the manipulation? Sure you are a great daddy for a baby but what about as he grows? Will he suffer like I do? I'm sorry but I can not give into you. I have to be strong for me. I can not focus on you anymore. My focus is now our son and I can not be a good mom until I focus on healing myself. I love you, and there is a good person in you, but you have ALOT of change to enact on yourself and I can not GIVE anymore of me to you because there is nothing left to give. I need to stop muddling my thoughts by communicating with you. I need you to leave me alone for a while. If you love me, you will let me go."

Then I decided that it was best to ensure that I reached a lawyer before things could get ugly...

I feel like once I am legally protected, that I should post that on our Facebook page instead... How else will he be motivated to change unless I expose him?? And I know it's stupid, but I want all our friends and family to understand my choice-- given that I will come off as the home wrecker.
But idk maybe that's not my place.

I will follow up with the custody lawyers in the morning. I don't know how to keep communicating with him and keep the course. But I'm afraid if I don't, that he will know something is up before I protect myself legally as far as custody....
Why do I still feel so much guilt, love, and obligations towards him? Why do I feel so bad taking away his child???

Please help me stay the course, I am in too deep.

The cycle of abuse HAS to stop with me. I can not let it reach my son. My father was emotionally abused, my mother was severely emotionally and physically abused. I just realized that I have been watching my father be emotionally abused by my mother because he feels guilt and obligations towards her. That must be why I think I should do the same. OMG. I want so badly to confront my mother, but I also was emotionally abused by her and feel obligation and guilt to protect her from hurtful realities..... Ugh. I have luckily been able to discuss my childhood with my father throughout the years and how it has developed my siblings and I into very insecure and scared people who let the world step all over them....my brother being extremely unstable as he has a slight mental handicap that my mother never fails to run in his face. But I have never discussed my fathers silent obligation towards my mother nor realized how that alone has impacted me. But I have shared this link with my father so I'm sure he is still following up on it. Sorry daddy I love you but you know writing stuff out is the only way I can contemplate. i do feel guilty raising my son in this environment as well. But this family really has changed, although it has a lot to improve on... But I can create a new life for my son and I here and I can't while I'm living for my SO.

OK, I would stop telling him you love him - nobody could love this amount of whining and manipulation. Keep it brief. You only want to hear about what he is doing to get well. If he starts talking about you and putting a judgement on your fleeing for your life, end the conversation.

I think he is simply proving he isn't husband material.

Casting yourself as a homewrecker is insane. You've been in this guys thrall since you were a teenager. Everyone has been waiting for this!

I don't think you should be going down the route of mediation and negotiation with your abusive boyfriend about joint custody of your child. I think that, no matter what the norm is in your state, you need to engage a lawyer and make your case in front of a judge, that your boyfriend is abusive and that your son needs to be protected from that.

Do not try to facilitate your boyfriend's putative rights. You are staying with your family to protect yourself and your son, and if your boyfriend feels that this is denying him his rights, he can take you to court for that. He'll have to discuss his behaviour in front of a judge, if he does that.

The suggestion that you left prematurely is just another way of saying that you should have stayed to protect your abusive boyfriend's fragile mental state. Ignore that. You did the right thing in leaving, and you need to stay away.

I don�t think you can discuss abuse during a custody hearing. The goal of a family court is to establish the best interests of a child and they will not listen the abuse accusations unless there are material evidences. Courts do not take emotions in to considerations. They need pictures of injuries or bruises. If the police was called during the suicide threat with gun, it would help, just saying that he threatened her will not stand. But then again- I am not a lawyer. Taking it to court without strongly built case puts it at risk that he will get joint 50/50 custody.
PWMS, you need to stay away from his drama. He has a therapist- if he is emotional- he can talk ho him or her. You are not his counselor. You are not separate from him if you doing Skype session with crying together for hours. This is what called giving it and enabling his insanity. Your boyfriend is likely having mental illness. And you may be predisposed to it as well- one way or another you play along with it, engage in hysteria and adding to the drama. He is not likely to take you to court right now- he is not stable. The calls, e-mails, skype- everything should stop. Tell him he is making it worse by acting crazy, that you need a healthy man, and to contact you when he is being stable for 4 weeks with no throwing up, crying and any other pathetic outbursts. Your child needs healthy parents. And let me tell you this: your boyfriend is not going anywhere- you have all time in the world. By the way he acts- I can tell- he is not ready to break up, so you hardly have anything to worry about. If he threatens suicide again- call police and ask them to come to your house. When they take him for 48 hours observation he will stop the threats.

Have you spoken with a DV shelter and received a worker to help guide you through this?

You need professional guidance.

For heaven's sake, Theocracy, I was not suggesting that she take it to court without a strongly-built case. I told her to see a lawyer about this. I presumed that a lawyer would inform her of her rights, and tell her how to proceed in the best interests of her and her child. Do lawyers in your country take cases to court without a strong basis?

I object to your suggestion that she facilitate his seeing his child on a 50/50 basis. I object to your advice for her to go to mediation. I suggest that she stays where she is, and if he wants to enforce his supposed rights, he can take her to court for them. "I don't think you can discuss abuse during a custody hearing" is not legal advice, and I suggest she gets legal advice if he tries to enforce his "rights".

Exactly SugarCane and seriously Theocracy, it is inane to suggest such things if you don't know the laws of her location. I worked with DV victims and things can vary wildly, which is why she needs proper advocacy in the form of social services who can assist her in finding the right lawyer.

Although I'm sure your intentions are good, comments like that are what push DV victims back to abusers. They often find any reason to go back and the belief of custody loss (shared or entirely) is right up there!

Me too. He's palpably unfit to parent and his (highly likely) failure to get legal advice and follow due process will show this.

The only hope he has is to be left alone and given the opportunity to take independent moves rather than have pwms spoon feed him everything and hand him rights he isn't equal to.

That's why the man makes her feel constantly anxious and to blame for his shameful pity party.

She has to say she is in love when she isn't even happy!

The man doesn't deserve a mere 'I love you' never mind 50/50 custody!. An 'I love you' has to be earned. Those are the words a man should hear after a fantastic date, or a soul baring and intelligent conversation about the wonderful future ahead. An 'I love you' is granted when a man cares for his lady and puts her far above any other consideration in his mind.

He has trained PWMS to say it in order to prevent his toddler tantrums. 'Mummy tell me me you love me or I WILL SCREAM and it will be YOUR fault.'

Not manly. Not lovable. Not fatherly.

Same thing with 50/50 custody. The man has to earn the right and he isn't doing squat.

pleasewearmyshoe, we contacted Dr. Harley and he has not received your email. Please send again to mbradio@marriagebuilders.com and to my email address. I will make sure he gets it.

Thank you, Denali

First of all- she is not a victim of domestic violence in a sense of a physical abuse. I never said- she should not get legal consult. And I never said- he deserved 50/50 custody. I said- the court will not take in to consideration accusations of psychological abuse unless there are some serious evidences and even then- it may be separate hearing if she files complaint. I said- if she takes it straight to the court without any evidences, the judge may still give the father 50% custody. At this time she has nothing to prove that he was/is abusive. If claiming abuse was getting women out of joint custody obligation that easy, everybody would claim it. In fact- many women that not abused, report being abused to get better custody arrangement. It is very hard to prove that one parent is unfit. Lawyer is not necessarily will be able to come up with evidences- it is up to her to collect them. The fact that he was seen by the psychiatrist or psychologist is not an evidence of him being unfit. If he was hospitalized for the suicidal threat than it might have value in court, also I am not encouraging to misuse the system, unless it is necessary for his safety. Your overreactions to everything I am trying to say actually distract from the point I am trying to make, so I would encourage you to read what is written and give it a benefit of the doubt.

Did you read her first post?

It has been few weeks since I have read it. I did not forget. This shows that he is in danger to himself and should of been hospitalized then. He needs mental help, and not the one he is getting. I am wondering if he is on medications. He may need a psychiatrist, not counselor. And it is still hard to prove at this point, unless she records his Skype hysteria and provokes him to open up in writing in e-mails. Also e-mails may not be admissible.

I do not believe that my son nor myself are in any physical danger; especially since the guns have been removed. In 8 years, the suicide attempt was the only moment that he put anyone in danger-- and he aknowledges that he had done so. Interesting thing is that he is the biggest advocate of gun safety I have ever met-- he has never been anything but professional with weapons until then.. I do not believe that taking his child away is necessary. And I can figure out the legal stuff with a lawyer. He has really been making an effort to change and I have already experienced major results since he begin therapy.. I suppose my question is, is there hope for him and for us as a couple? Is it worth it after what he has put me through? -- even if he does change for good? Is it wrong to take his child half way across the country with no notice for my own emotional needs?

His insurance will kick in next month for the first time in several years, in which he will see a psychiatrist for medication.