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She told my 18 year old daughter that I mentioned a polygraph test, and my daughter was angry at me, and told me that I was way out of line also. That's quite an aggressive move on your W's part and really makes me wonder what she is hiding from you... x100
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You can remind her that it is her responsibility to make you feel safe again, it is not your responsibility to just blindly trust her word. If she has nothing to hide and has been radically honest about her A, she should *welcome* the opportunity to put your mind at ease and help heal you, and the opportunity to back up her own word.
She seems to be calling the shots to recovery. She is not willing to change jobs. She is not willing to take a polygraph. She is not willing to protect your marriage by having airtight boundaries around men. Yet you are the one who is being insulting and degrading?
You seem to have some wishy washy boundaries in the sand, and she is taking full advantage of that.
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It would ease my mind greatly, even if she would just agree to the appointment. Even if I just scheduled it and drove down there, it would help me heal, just knowing that she is willing to do whatever it takes to rebuild the trust. The fact that she just adamantly shuts me down, and tells me how cruel and degrading it is of me to even ask that, makes me feel like she is doing as little as possible, to coast into complacency. She told my 18 year old daughter that I mentioned a polygraph test, and my daughter was angry at me, and told me that I was way out of line also. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can explain to her why this isn�t the big deal she is making out of it? Here's the thing though - it is a big deal. It would end her secret second life forever when her lies come out and she can't contemplate that. Thank goodness she hasn't worked out what most of them do when their back is against the wall. What most do (when the BS gets tough) is agree, then when driven down there, spill something juicy so they don't have to sit it and reveal everything. It alarms me that you say this would be just fine with you! Your daughter's reaction is also very scary. She makes me think of the girl in the 'what children learn' article. I think your WW has had you both gaslighted and brainwashed into blind acceptance of her behaviour for a very long time. She should be glad all her belongings aren't on the kerb. There is no sense of remorse, or responsibility or of compassion for what she's done to you. All focus is on whether you will allow enough wiggle room for her to do it again.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Here's the thing though - it is a big deal. It would end her secret second life forever when her lies come out and she can't contemplate that.
Thank goodness she hasn't worked out what most of them do when their back is against the wall. What most do (when the BS gets tough) is agree, then when driven down there, spill something juicy so they don't have to sit it and reveal everything. It alarms me that you say this would be just fine with you! Well, If I got her far enough to actually driver her there, I would definitely be following through with it. My point was even seeing that she was willing to do whatever it takes to help heal me would be great. Your daughter's reaction is also very scary. She makes me think of the girl in the 'what children learn' article.
I think your WW has had you both gaslighted and brainwashed into blind acceptance of her behavior for a very long time. When my W told me that my daughter was not happy that I suggested that, I said � Did you tell her all the details�? She said �Well not everything�. So the next day my daughter confronted me, and told me I just need to let go of the past. Well we ended up having a wonderful conversation, where I told my daughter how much I love her mother, and that I am sorry she has had to witness the struggles we have had in our marriage the last year. My daughter has always known the majority of the story, but she didn�t know some of the more �Juicy� details. Once I told her a few more things that went on, she was more sympathetic to me. She should be glad all her belongings aren't on the kerb.
There is no sense of remorse, or responsibility or of compassion for what she's done to you.
All focus is on whether you will allow enough wiggle room for her to do it again. This is what I have struggled with for so long. It has never seemed like she is remorseful. The sense I have always got, is that she is sorry that her actions hurt me, but I don�t feel like she is sorry for what she did. She is more sorry that I found out. So, something that I never mentioned on here, because when I originally posted my story back in June, I didn�t realize that it was still important, but it is just another example of my wife�s terrible boundaries. Back when my wife and I were only married for less than 2 years, and before she got her current job that she has had for the last 16 years, she started a part time job doing telemarketing. After a few weeks of working there, she told me about a Mexican guy that kept telling her how beautiful she was. So I told her to stay away from him, and she told me I was being paranoid. (Sound familiar) Anyways we became friends with a gal she worked with, and had a couple game nights at our house with her and her husband. Well one evening, when my wife was working, her friend from work shows up at my house all frantic, and says. �Do you know where your wife is�? I said �Yeah, She is at work�. She proceeds to tell me that she got off a few hours ago, and left with this Mexican guy Edgar� I knew exactly who she was referring to, since my wife had been telling me about all his compliments. We only had one kid at the time, so I threw her in the car, and headed to my wife�s work, which was about 5 miles away. I sat there in the parking lot for a couple of hours, until finally the guys car comes pulling in, and heads over to my wifes car to drop her off. So I drive over there, and pull up to the passanger side window, and my wife has this complete look of panic, and the guy has this cocky look on his face. She starts babbling off how they got off early, and went for a drive, and at this point I see another girl in the back seat. I was in complete disbelief. The next month was ugly. I was very hurt. We were newly married, and I was shattered, even though she swears up and down that nothing happened. Well fast forward a couple weeks, I find out that after work she has been meeting him at a grocery store parking lot, and he gets in her car, and they talk. After much interrogation, she finally admits that he convinced her to let him kiss her, because she was refusing to kiss him. So instead she says that she would sit there with her mouth partially open, and let him kiss her. She said she would not kiss back, but he would kiss her. Needless to say, I was completely devastated, and she ended up quitting this job, and I started into a downward spiral of pain. All my hopes as a young husband were shattered. I felt completely un wanted and devastated. After many months of consoling, she was able to convince me that nothing more happened between them, and over time, I forgave her, and we went on with our marriage, which for the next 15 years seemed like everything was great between us. Looking back now, I realize how stupid I was. I never told anyone about this. I completely swept it under the rug, and put it in our past. So the point of this explanation, is that if I could ever convince her to do a Polygraph test, I would definitely be gearing some questions to this event, because I want to know if anything more happened. Even typing this now, I realize what a doormat I have been. My W has no respect for me, and obviously never has.
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I'm liking where your mind set is.
Onward!
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Roughrock, do you know if she ever had an affair with a married man before she was married? I am just curious.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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RR, I am really sorry for your pain.
Have you and your W ever had STD testing?
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[Thank goodness she hasn't worked out what most of them do when their back is against the wall. What most do (when the BS gets tough) is agree, then when driven down there, spill something juicy so they don't have to sit it and reveal everything. It alarms me that you say this would be just fine with you! Indiegirl, that is the beauty of the polygraph!! That is how we get the most information. Most waywards don't like to flunk the polygraph, so they spill their guts all the way to the appointment. It is awesome!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Roughrock, do you know if she ever had an affair with a married man before she was married? I am just curious. I was her first, and she was mine, but I have learned that I really don't know anything anymore, so who knows. I very highly doubt that she had an affair with a married man. Curious as to why you ask though???
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Roughrock, do you know if she ever had an affair with a married man before she was married? I am just curious. I was her first, and she was mine, but I have learned that I really don't know anything anymore, so who knows. I very highly doubt that she had an affair with a married man. Curious as to why you ask though??? The reason I wondered is because Dr Harley said one time that many serial cheater wives had affairs with married men before they got married. He views it as a big red flag.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[Thank goodness she hasn't worked out what most of them do when their back is against the wall. What most do (when the BS gets tough) is agree, then when driven down there, spill something juicy so they don't have to sit it and reveal everything. It alarms me that you say this would be just fine with you! Indiegirl, that is the beauty of the polygraph!! That is how we get the most information. Most waywards don't like to flunk the polygraph, so they spill their guts all the way to the appointment. It is awesome! Did I miss the point? RR, were you going to fall for this ruse and cancel the polygraph if she gave you some crumbs?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[Thank goodness she hasn't worked out what most of them do when their back is against the wall. What most do (when the BS gets tough) is agree, then when driven down there, spill something juicy so they don't have to sit it and reveal everything. It alarms me that you say this would be just fine with you! Indiegirl, that is the beauty of the polygraph!! That is how we get the most information. Most waywards don't like to flunk the polygraph, so they spill their guts all the way to the appointment. It is awesome! Did I miss the point? RR, were you going to fall for this ruse and cancel the polygraph if she gave you some crumbs? Melody, My wife refuses to do a PG test. All hell broke loose last week when I brought it up as a way to help me heal. She says there is no way she will ever do that. It is hard right now, because things seem so great between us. How do I convince her that she needs to take a PG????
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My wife refuses to do a PG test. All hell broke loose last week when I brought it up as a way to help me heal. She says there is no way she will ever do that. It is hard right now, because things seem so great between us. How do I convince her that she needs to take a PG???? I don't think you should try any more to convince her. Your trying to convince her is not the issue. The issue is that she knows that you badly want her to take one and she won't. When I wrote to you several days ago, I said that it was a bad idea for you to push this now that you are in recovery. I have been meaning to come back ever since your reply. I read your thread again, and I listened to the radio clips, and I now think that my response focused on the wrong thing. You are not in recovery and you never have been. Some people have spoken of your wife's lack of remorse. Well, having listened a great deal to Dr Harley, all regular posters should know that a demonstration of remorse is not typical of a FWW, and should not be the test or a focal point when in recovery. Instead, what we should be looking at is what Dr Harley alluded too all to briefly during your radio segment, which is the building of a lifestyle that makes both of you feel secure. That is what is missing from your wife's behaviour, and the flat-out refusal to polygraph is just part of the evidence for that. Her refusal to change job is another piece of evidence. It's not the polygraph per se that is the issue; it is that your wife wants to be left to live her married life as she pleases. She doesn't think that her life when she is away from you is any business of yours. As for the affair; she is just lying to cover for what she really did, which is what all affairees do until and unless there is is concrete evidence. I don't think that many confess to all that they did. Your wife is just lucky that you have no concrete proof of a PA and so she can get away with continued lying. Many of us on this forum were lucky - or unlucky - enough to come across emails and text messages - and in my case a box of condoms - that showed beyond doubt that the affairees had sex. You were not able to do that. As far as I can see, your wife isn't interested in creating a new marriage of transparency, and that is your dilemma. I don't think your wife is having an affair with the last guy at present - but I think that he might well contact her at work to see how she is one day, and you will never know. That is what happened in my own case, and I sympathise big time with your unhappiness. I've heard Dr H talk about the problem faced by men when their wives refuse to make changes, where the men do not want to leave, for kids or whatever reason. The advice I can remember amounts simply to "you might have to suck it up". You might have to live with a difficult marriage forever, or until the kids are grown, or until whatever is holding you comes to an end. If she has another affair you might well find out about it by luck. At that point, you can take a decision to leave if your recovery conditions are still refused. Until and unless that happens, you can't force your wife to be transparent, you can't persuade her to be transparent because she blows up at you, you can't force her to take a poly and you can't find out about the past. So you can leave, or you can suck it up. It stinks, but there it is.
BW Married 1989 His PA 2003-2006 2 kids.
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So you can leave, or you can suck it up. It stinks, but there it is. Thanks SugarCane, I think what you just said makes a lot of sense on many levels. I think I am going to have to just take the road of sucking it up, and trying to continue to be the best father and husband I can possibly be. I will say this though. Right now I am in a situation, that if she ever starts an EA, or anything of the sort, I will file for divorce, because I refuse to go through the gut wrenching pain again.
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Thanks SugarCane, I think what you just said makes a lot of sense on many levels. I think I am going to have to just take the road of sucking it up, and trying to continue to be the best father and husband I can possibly be. You should check again with Dr H, though. I would hate to give advice that is in fact NOT what he would say. On listening to your segment, I thought your email was not clear enough. Either the email gave the impression that you were asking what your wife needed to do to make you feel secure, or the Harleys mistakenly took that from the email.That's why they told you what she needed to do to make you feel secure - but you already know that. I think another email would be in order, stressing that you understand what she needs to do, but you cannot get her to agree to it, and asking what are your options in this situation. You need to mention your not being convinced that the affair was only an EA (Dr H might actually say that this isn't relevant, as long as she takes EPs today; I'm not sure about the relevance myself, although it would kill me not to know), her flat-out refusal to leave a government job that does not allow you email access, your worry that he can contact her easily at that job because it's where she worked during the affair, and her current flirting.
BW Married 1989 His PA 2003-2006 2 kids.
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Thanks SugarCane, I think what you just said makes a lot of sense on many levels. I think I am going to have to just take the road of sucking it up, and trying to continue to be the best father and husband I can possibly be. You should check again with Dr H, though. I would hate to give advice that is in fact NOT what he would say. On listening to your segment, I thought your email was not clear enough. Either the email gave the impression that you were asking what your wife needed to do to make you feel secure, or the Harleys mistakenly took that from the email.That's why they told you what she needed to do to make you feel secure - but you already know that. I think another email would be in order, stressing that you understand what she needs to do, but you cannot get her to agree to it, and asking what are your options in this situation. You need to mention your not being convinced that the affair was only an EA (Dr H might actually say that this isn't relevant, as long as she takes EPs today; I'm not sure about the relevance myself, although it would kill me not to know), her flat-out refusal to leave a government job that does not allow you email access, your worry that he can contact her easily at that job because it's where she worked during the affair, and her current flirting. I get the same impression from listening to the show as Sugarcane. We know what your wife NEEDS to do. The problem is that she is not willing. You need Dr. Harley's direction on where to go from there.
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How old are your kids, again?
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How old are your kids, again? We have 6 kids, and they are ages 18 down to 3. 4 girls, and 2 boys. They are all amazing kids. They all excell in school, and my daughters are beautiful. I want my daughters to learn while they are young how important it is to have good boundaries. I also want to build a marriage that my kids will look at and one day, and say "that's what I want my marriage to be like". After the rough year we had last year, I am sure they are not impressed...
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RR, I am really sorry for your pain.
Have you and your W ever had STD testing? roughrock, I never saw an answer to this.
FWW/BW (me) WH 2nd M for both Blended Family with 7 kids between us Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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RR, I am really sorry for your pain.
Have you and your W ever had STD testing? roughrock, I never saw an answer to this. If I had any sort of evidence that suggested that she had a PA, then I would. As far as I know, I am the only man she has ever had sex with, and I know she is the only woman I have ever had sex with.
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