My H and i have been making a lot of progress. So much has gotten better. It's only been 5 weeks since i found out about him, and i know it will still take quite a bit of time for the big wounds to heal. This is the "wound-of-the-week" that is biting me on the a**. He is trying very hard to be completely honest with me when i ask him any questions i have about the whole thing. The question i asked him was, DID HE EVER FEEL AND GUILT OR EVEN BADLY THAT HE WAS DECEIVING ME, AND PUTTING OUR MARRIAGE IN DANGER. His answer is NO. He states that he had completely seperated the two lives, and one didn't have anything to do with the other. That is devistating to me. I find myself falling in love with him again, and then think, how could he have put me soooo far out of his heart to do this? How could he when we were out having fun, out to dinner, camping, having sex on picnic tables in the middle of the night, been carring on such a dual existance? How could i have mattered so little to him to allow him to do that to me? how could he look right into my eyes and say "I love you with all of my heart", and be screwing around? Input....ooh, please, some input.

I am experiencing the same thing you are. My husband said that the two were separated. That he loved what the woman did from him. That he still loved me and wasn't about to give me up for anyhting. Its amazing how men can separate the two. Well that statement isn't true because some women can too. I know there are those of us out there that only have sex with someone because we are in love, but there are also those out there that does it for the feeling it gives them.

Hi Jily-<P>First of all-don't tell anyone I might be sticking up for my H-LOL. I too have dealt with the question you ask. It is the most hurtful part of the situation-although add your best friend to the picture and it hurts a bit more. After reading so much here at MB and talking with others and listening to my H what he says is true. But the way you are taking it isn't the way it was. I think all of us can easily get caught up in attention from someone other than our spouses. It DOES feel good to know another man or woman finds you still something to look at and even desire after you ahve been married years, had a few kids, all that. Men think with the wrong head-and that is NO joke. Men love attention!! And your H got it and without thinking about you he was caught in the trap. It doesnt eman you weren't fullfilling his every need-it doesn't mean what you two were doing at the same time didn't mean something to both of you!! It means.............that the guy just lost track of the right thoughts for awhile. I can't believe I am saying this after being told by my H of his two year affair with my best friend-by the way-I don't want her any more if you know anyone who can get her out of here for me But honest to God-it is the truth. My H did many many stupid things with the OW-drives an hour away and all that. And in fact-their affair started on my 40th birthday-and you want to know how he wasn't thinking of me??? I can't say why it is this way-but I do KNOW that your H isn't trying to hurt you. It is almost certain that he doesn't understand it himself. If he is with you now and wants to make the marriage work then please try. If he is anything like my H he means it with all his heart and regrets every stupid mistake he made. Give him a chance.<P>HUGS<P><P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<BR>"Loyalty Is A Two Way Street"<BR>

Hi Jily -<P>Yep, it's the truth....of course, with infidelity - the mind gets a little out of whack so it makes perfect sense to our H's!!!!<P>When they're in it, it's like they are in a bubble!!! No thoughts of life in the bubble being connected with life outside the bubble... Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde is a good reference for me!!!<P>It is needed as a self-preservation mechanism for their consciences!! <BR>Otherwis, they could not live with themselves for causing so much pain and devastation....<P>It allows the brain to have justifications for their actions.<P>It is only when the conscience finally overcomes the mental block that they start seeing the reality of these two lifestyles actually being not so separate like they thought!!!<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba

jily...i am a betrayer like your h and <BR>repeated those words that your h said <BR>verbatim to my w...from what i have read <BR>and you can check most affair books on <BR>this it is called <BR>compartmentalizing...and i don' want to <BR>get bashed on this point but the <BR>literature seems to point out a distinct <BR>gender difference about how men and <BR>women engage this cognitive process...i <BR>find from most women's responses a <BR>difficulty in understanding men's <BR>ability to completely separate the <BR>affair and the marriage...and from men <BR>me included that it is this ability to <BR>compartmentalize or separate that <BR>enables or helps basically honest people <BR>become very skilled liars...now ladies <BR>don't get mad at me yet because i am not <BR>saying i repeat not saying that this is <BR>an excuse for my/our behavior there is <BR>absolutely no excuse to justify the <BR>hideous actions we betrayers undertook i <BR>am merely pointing out how we separate <BR>in our minds and most of the times it is <BR>unconscious it's not like we sit and <BR>plot to keep it all separate...in fact <BR>until i read about it i couldn't <BR>understand how i did it so well because <BR>i didn't know what it was i was doing... <BR>make any sense? i hope this helps...<BR>much peace and love...trying hard

On a very good day, i can see the compartment thing the one guy is trying to describe, i had heard of that before. But, when H and i are trying to re-build, and i realize that while i was working my a** off to make our marriage better, he was actually taking steps to get even further into the cheating ie, when we were finally getting to a better place in our relatinship, he escalated the cheating to actually include sex. When good things happen, it seems to hurt worse. I know that doesn't make much sense, but i think that's when i start to trust again, and am so very afraid of being hurt again that i put up walls. Special things i planned and things we did i know i'm going to be faced with again, and i just don't know how to face them knowing what they really meant to him the first time. I was so stupid. I don't know if any of this makes sense, i know i'm rambling, but it's hard to put these emotions down with they are so HUGE. Thanks for listening<P>------------------<BR>jily<BR>

Hi there,<P>I too, am in the same boat. H tells me that he never wanted marriage to end and that his affair with the 19 year old OW was seperate and had nothing to do with me. My question then: How does something like this keep from happening again? He was a good man, but he did some very unforgiving things, without the guilt. I have always believed in working hard at the marriage and begged during his affiar time that we needed more time together. What a joke. He took the time that we needed and spent it anyway he could to get away from me to be with her. Our lives were far from perfect then, but I felt we were going through a slump. I was newly pregnant and tired!!! But now, that slump seems to be an impossable mountain to climb. Certainly, a mountain that I do not want to have to face.

I wonder how our cheating husbands would feel if their wifes started "compartmentalizing" a<BR>sexual relationship with another man...how do you "compartmentalize" an emotional relationship...how can you keep the emotions separated between wife and other woman....I am sorry but.....this "compartmentalizing" is basically being an excellent liar.....until the wife starts to see the light....then....the liars change their tune because the wife is rocking the boat and the normal, quiet home life is disrupted....its no fun being caught....I know that I made my husband's life hell when I first discovered what he was up to....we either had to split up or he had to get her out of his life....suddenly he realized how much his family meant to him....."compartmentalizing" is just a way for a cheater to deal with the double life<BR>without feeling guilty....its a way to deceive their own filthy conscience.....and it is filthy.....filthy.....filthy.....

Gosh, Jily, you sound so much like me...about 10 months ago....It is true, alot of betrayers say that they separated the two from each other, the marriage and the affair though without a marriage, it wouldn't be an affair, would it? I know this may sound bad and hurtful to you but it really woke me up when someone said this to me....So, what can you do about it? You have him, you need to drop the "little" things like the hurt and work on the "big" things, like the committment he is now giving you. .....This hurt when I first heard it. I had to say it to myself over and over again, that was then, this is now. Does having that hurt and holding on to it do anything for me? No..My H was the same way, we had wonderful sex during the time of the affair, the counsellor said that is normal, he was trying to make up for the affair, and he was separating the two and telling both of us he loved us. He even took off the wedding ring when he was with her, though she was my friend supposedly and knew everything about our life together. But what does that do for us? it's time to move on and decide to stay married. Decide that it won't hurt you anymore, this was the hardest thing I had to do in recovery, I will pray for you and hope you understand what I am trying to convey...God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P>

sadforever...i would be interested in hearing from women betrayers to know if they did compartmentalize during the affairs...also if it is a tool for us to use to deceive our consscience from feeling guilty then how come i feel so guilty and remorseful for what i have done? i feel more guilt than one could imagine for hurting the one i love so much and knowing i have to live with that pain that it was my selfish actions that caused the pain to her...<BR>

I have a comment about this.<P>My H was the betrayer. He never tried to justify his actions. All he would say is that he was selfish. The other W even told me it really confused her because when she would ask him why all he would tell her is that he was just selfish. According to him and her he never said anything bad about me to her. He insisted the affair didn't happen he thought I was bad, it happened because he felt he couldn't make me love him the he needed to be loved and he couldn't live without that feeling of importance.<P>He also said the same thing as the other Hs. He said it didn't have anything to do with me. That is such an infuriating comment. His entire life should have to do with me, I am half of him, because we are supposed to be one.<P>He told me that the "compartmentalizing" (he did not use that phrase he referred to it as detachment) began very gradually and a long time before the affair. He began to lose spiritual strength. He began to stop sharing events and his behavior at work. He began to take pleasure in a little firting here and a little flirting there. He said it made him feel good to have women flirt with him because he didn't think I found him attractive anymore. (That part of it is a long complicated story)<P>He then began thinking more and more what it would be like to be with other woman. Maybe my dissatisfaction sexually was his fault. Then he found that he could share less of his life and actions at work with me because he was concerned and ashamed of them.<P>When he bagan to be tempted by the OW he was forced to detach even more. How could he come to me with this problem. I am not real good with dealing with any conflict and did not have a history of being very rational or understanding. He also felt that he had already committed adultery in his heart. He had grown so spiritually weak that he felt condemned and that led to more spiritual weakness and the "there is no way I can live a good enough life to go to be saved" attitude.<P>He said that over the years, his conscience had become so hardened because he had already been living a lie due to his spiritual weakness. He has no idea how he was able to come home to me, especially the first few times. <P>Another interesting point is that he was amazed that I couldn't tell and took this as even more evidence that I didn't care.<P>He told me that he had felt for many years that I would love scriptural grounds to divorce him and that I never loved him. My answer to that was, "then if you still cared about me so much, then why didn't you tell me I had scriptural grounds to leave, you said you felt that is what I wanted".<P>He says that he still cared for me, but she made him feel good. You was lost because of what he had done, and couldn't be forgiven unless he told me about it and asked for forgiveness. If he did that he felt that I would definitely leave him and he didn't want to lose me because I gave him something the OW could never give him.<P>As time went by this became easier and easier.<P>I feel this is a form of justification. Never did he think he had a right to do what he was doing, but he allowed himself to feel that the cast had been set and he would have to give up an aspect of his life enjoyment if he gave up either one of us.<P>This still hurts and infuriates me. He admits that it was selfish and is very relieved to be released from the burden of guilt and deceit.<P>Their ability to detach does not mean they don't feel guilty or even feel "justified" they just have no choice but to keep up the lie in order to preserve the life enjoyment system that they have allowed themselves to be trapped into by weakness and selfishness.<P>I didn't start suspecting anything until after he had ended it with her (the second time) the first time he ended it with her his mood changes were masked by job trouble and insecurity so I misread things. When he stopped seeing her he became very hateful to me. Prior to that I had begun to feel and had even told his mom that we had finally gotten into a groove. He finally accepted me for what I am. In a sense he had because he was getting what he previously pressured me for from someone else. I say pressured because he was expecting me to satisfy his needs when mine weren't being met so this was a point of pressure. I had settled into a life feeling that I wasn't going to ever have all of my needs met, but atleast I had a H that was honest, faithful, a good father, and would never hurt me. Okay, I'm getting off subject and I am also getting myself upset so I will stop and make my typical lists of why I shouldn't be upset, but rather thankful.

jily, Let me see if I understand what you are say. While you were trying to saving the marriage and you thought you H was too, he was still having an affair? Is this correct? <BR>I am a lttle slow to day and in a hurry so I am not sure I read as carefully as I should. <BR>If I am correct I have no words of wisdom for you. Just wanted to let you know I spent the entire summer in the same situation. I thought we were doing good, but the whole time he was lying and seeing her. NOw he is with her. Really cheers you up. Sorry But I just want to tell you that you aren't alone. I don't understand either.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Jily, I was the betrayer and I did live two seperate lives for a while, in a way. One with H and one with OM but I could never fully seperate the two. When I was out with OM I would have feelings of guilt and I always tried to push them to the back of my mind. But when everything came out and H learned of the affair I was so very sorry I put him and our marriage through that. It really didn't register with me while the affair was going on that I was doing that to him, or to our marriage. I guess I didn't see it becuase I probably didn't want to. But then when I realised what I had done to H I felt so horribale. I can't even describe all the terriable feelings I had. If I were in your situation I would be a bit concerned that he doesn't feel bad. He devesated you and he should feel horriable about that (I know I do). Having been in his shoes I don't see how he could say that one life had nothing to do with the other. It is impossible to live two totally seperate lives unless you are two different people. His life with OP had to affect his life with you and his life with you had to affect his life with OP. Take Batman for example, Bruce by day, Batman by night. But these two very different aspects of his life affected each other. Whenever the bat signal was lit Bruce had to disappear to become Batman and therfore affected the things he was doing as Bruce at that moment. Maybe thats a silly example, but I guess I am just trying to politely say that I think it is pretty messed up he is using that line on you. And I think thats what it is. Coming from someone who was in his situation, its impossible to totally seperate the two. Maybe he is telling you that to try to make you feel better, like it wasn't anything you did. Maybe he's telling you that to try to make himself feel better, to try and justify his lack of guilt. The thing I would worry about if I was in your situation is if he doesn't feel a bit guilty or bad about what he has done than whats to keep him from doing it again? I know that is a very hard thing to think about and I am very sorry to bring that up but you do have to protect yourself. I know that I would never, ever do that to my H again and one of those reason (believe me there are many, many more) is because of the guilt and how bad I felt seeing that pain I caused him. I am sure you are going through a lot of pain right now and I hate to be the one to say negative things and I don't know you or your H so it is hard for me to say anything with any amount of certainty. But I do know my thoughts and feelings being in his situation, so I hope maybe that might help you. Best of luck, I hope things keep getting better and just make sure that you look out for yourself.

Hi Jily and Everyone,<P>I don't know if anyone has thought of this and there is another site where it describes the types of affairs people have.<P>I have a client who's husband has had 3 affairs. Her counselor says her husband is a sex addict. <P>From what she has told me her husband is more of a "Falling in Love Addict." I think there are many people who like the feeling of falling in love so much that they risk the mature love they have to feel that again and sometimes again and again and again.<P>I don't know if your mates fall into either of these categories or not but, maybe that is why they can separate the two. <P>Also Men seem to have a much better ability to separate and categorize things then we women do. I don't know why but they do? Maybe it is the part in us that God put there so we could be the nurtures, and the part he put in them so they could provide when it always isn't a tasteful thing to do.<P>Anyway just food for thought.<P><P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR>

Jily<BR>I can relate to much of what you said, my H separated the two in the sense that he was able to meet with her (heartache, she was also my best friend)and then come home to me and we had some good times together. It is hard for me to look back and see a picture or have a memory and not wonder "what was real". He said he truly had good times with me at the same time he was seeing her but it is a very difficult concept for me, and I think that is a gender specific kinda thing. Our Pastor described it not as "compartmentalizing?" but as aquariums and rivers. Men put all the different emotions or subjects in separate aquariums and women let everything run together in a river. Make any sense to you at all? I find it hard to accept he could separate the two but apparently he is not alone in the way he feels. I know this might sound a little sexist but...I am feeling a whole lot better about the EA between my H and my best friend than about the betrayal of the friendship thing. I think part of that is because I am seeing my H trying to make an effort at this marriage and doing a pretty good job and I feel like he's being totally honest (even when, like you, I ask the tough questions) and OW hasn't even apologized or awknowledged anything (other than she feels like she was a victim because of depression). Is that wrong? Am I expecting more from her than him?<P>I wish I understood this depression thing. I know I feel like crap sometimes but does that make a person "depressed". What exactly does the medication do and is this a justifiable excuse for this kind of behavior? Sorry didn't mean to horn in on your thread.<P>I keep telling myself that time will help heal that wound of memory and I try to pick out the good stuff and throw out the bad stuff. Some may call that selective memory but I call it housecleaning of the heart. I started a box of "happy stuff" that when I am feeling down I can go to that box and pull out mementos of happy times since discovery and it does help. I also remind myself daily about what I read about Carol and Glenn (didn't know anything about them until that day) and no matter how bad things seem they could always be worse. Then on the other hand in looking at the overall picture I have to say the worst day in this situation is definately behind us and it only gets better from here, not easier, just better. <P>I used to get angry when I thought about all the wasted time and effort of those two years but then I started trying to put in the context of how 2 yrs seems insignificant if we can be really happy for the next 20 or 30 yrs.<P>I know we've been given a second chance and I will do what has to be done to not pass this way again.<P>I don't know how you feel about God but the words to this song by Ginny Owens (christian artist) have been an extreme comfort to me.<P>"If you want me to"<P>The pathway is broken<BR>And the signs are unclear<BR>And I don't know the reason why you brought me here<BR>But just because you love me the way that you do<BR>I'm gonna walk through the valley <BR>If you want me to.<P>'Cause I'm not who I was<BR>When I took my first step<BR>And I'm clinging to the promise you're not throught with me yet<BR>So if all of these trials bring me closer to you <BR>THen I will go through the fire <BR>If you want me to.<P>It may not be the way I would have chosen<BR>When you lead me through a world that's not my home<BR>But you never said it would be easy<BR>You only said I'll never go alone<P>So when the whole world turns against me<BR>And I'm all by myself<BR>And I can't herar you answere my cries for help<BR>I'll remember the suffering your love put you through<BR>And I will go throught the valley<BR>If you want me to.<P>My friend all tell me they can't believe the strength and poise I've shown through all of this and I truly believe I've had to pull that strength from somewhere beyond my human self.<P>For what it's worth, I hope I helped at least a tiny bit.<P>LF<BR>

Hi Jily,Little late in responding <BR>because I took a break from my life and <BR>went away for awhile with friends. My H <BR>is "trying hard" and quite honestly, the <BR>bullsh___ about compartmentalizing does <BR>nothing for me. I wish to god I could <BR>understand his motivations and his <BR>ability to do what he did. I am trying <BR>but I still could never separate a life <BR>like he did to lie, cheat and deceive. I <BR>wish you and all of the betrayed and <BR>even betrayers luck at our lives. This <BR>really stinks to be here. Maybe someday <BR>it will all mean something. For now, <BR>luck and love in making your life work.