Hi Everyone,

First time poster. My wife and I have been together 12 years and married 10. We have 2 daughters together and we have part time an older daughter from a previous marriage of mine. I discovered shortly after the new year that my wife had a brief PA this past fall. We've been working on our marriage since then, finding a lot of helpful info here on MB. In the interest of radical honesty, my wife revealed to me that she had had another affair back in 2011-2012. That affair was just Emotional with a man she met online who lives a couple states away. It lasted about 9 months and was very intimate (lots of phone calls, emails, online chats, pics sent back and forth, phone sex, etc). They did meet up once, but my wife decided not to go through with the physical sex, and after that was the end of their emotional relationship - because OM wanted more where my wife just wanted the fantasy. From what I've seen of their correspondence, OM had previous affairs, has kept them secret from his wife, and I would be surprised if he wasn't having new affairs with other women. OM and his wife have 3 younger children.

Anyway, so my dilemma is whether or not I should tell OM's wife after all this time (I've been leaning toward yes), and then if yes, what is the best way to approach her and the subject?

Hi EH, welcome to Marriage Builders. Yes, I would tell this man's wife. There really is no best way to tell her. You might consider calling her and telling her about the affair [disguise your # using *67] and offering to email her the evidence. When you tell her, I would ask her to write down your name, email adddress and phone # for follow up contact. Ask her for her email address so you can send her the evidence. Be sure and tell her your full name and your wife's full name. I would not forewarn your wife.

Thanks for the reply. I just tried to call her but it went straight to voicemail. I did not leave a message. That's the only number I have for her. I believe it might be her work cell or business phone.

If I can't reach her by phone should I leave a non-descript message? Is sending her an email out of the question? I found her FB page and her work email address.

I would send her a work email. Tell her briefly that you are XXX and that her husband had an affair with your wife, XXXX. Ask her to give you a call so you can arrange to give her the evidence.

I would put more detail in the email in case she doesn't respond. Mention the timeframe the affair took place and that her husband admitted to multiple affairs. I would email her what you just posted.

I would include something like this ^^^ and ask her to please contact you.

I sent the brief email, like Melody suggested. I gave her my phone number and told her she could contact me if she wanted to discuss it further. I also asked her to please respond to the email, whether or not she wanted to discuss it.

If I don't hear back from her, should I make further attempts at contact? I would like to know that she has heard me, even if she doesn't care / doesn't want to discuss it. But at the same time I feel this is one of the last steps in me getting over the past. I feel like hanging on to this "evidence" and thinking over what all I'm going to say to this woman are keeping me from just focusing on the present and moving forward with my wife.

Yes continue to contact her until you get a hold of her. I commend you for doing the right thing and letting this BW know about her WH.

Another question for you.

Is your WW living a complete transparent life with you now? Have all the conditions that allowed the affair to happen been changed?

You're getting perfect advice and you sound like you're on this!

You can use OMW to snoop on that side of the fence too. Your wife is likely still addicted to the fantasy and will try to contact him.

Be very sure to try to speak to her. Serial cheats like this OM usually have spyware on their spouse so they can intercept messages. You should be fine with a work email though.

Not sure that I would believe your wife's claim. She travelled all that way for a reason. Lots of women go through with the sex to keep the emotional A - its far more likely he got tired of her.

Remember she will still be very foggy. Switching 'he wanted sex more than I did' to ' I never had sex' is even going to seem truthful to her.

I do believe my wife is being transparent now. She has given me permission to see her emails and phone / texts. I can also see her cell activity on our phone bill. She has stated she wants to have an honest relationship with me now. And she is beginning to demonstrate that; eg, she told me of this EA we're discussing. And she's much more communicative with me regarding her daily activities (who she talked to, what they talked about, where she's been, etc).

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure if all the conditions that lead to the affair(s) have been changed. I can say that I've taken responsibility for my own failings in supporting our marriage. I've made considerable changes in my actions and attitude toward her and our family. The MB site helped me a lot to understand my role in creating conditions which may have lead her to cheat.

For my wife, she has made the decision to be honest with me from now on. She has agreed to NC with the OM from both affairs, and I believe she has stuck to that so far. I can't know for certain, but I can't help but feel that if I'd have been a better husband, and that if she had been open and honest about her dissatisfaction with me and our marriage, that she would not have gotten herself into those situations.

I guess the doubt (the not 100% sure) probably stems from me having trust issues right now. She did have a secret second life for a good 3 years or so. Even when she wasn't directly involved in an affair, she kept herself emotionally distant from me, lied, and withheld information routinely.

And also, though I can say I've witnessed a real change in her behavior, and I can tell she is making an effort to save our marriage, I realize she spent the last 3-4 years slowly falling out of love with me. I think by the time I discovered her recent PA, she had been entirely checked out, emotionally, from our marriage for several months. Thus, though she has been very sweet and kind, and is making an attempt to meet my ENs, she also has her own doubts and can't really reassure me that she is committed to us long term. I understand that, and I get that I need to be satisfied with her being just "committed to trying" for now, but it also makes it difficult on me in regards to trying to heal from her deceptions. Sometimes I get the sense that though she is sorry she hurt me, and sorry she lied, she's not really sorry about the actual affairs, but perhaps I'm wrong about that.

This is all so hard, but I love my wife and am committed to her and our marriage, so I'm doing my best to be patient.

Their EA ended mid 2012. Though they have had email contact since then, I've seen no evidence that the affair is ongoing. My wife has agreed to NC as well.


Does it matter? She already had sex with a different man more recently. And for all their intimate conversation, she might as well have had sex with first man as well. Her past actions do not change my attitude toward wanting to save our marriage. I did dig around quite a bit for some evidence that she was being honest with me about the details of the affair, but I eventually came to the conclusion that it was causing me too much pain and preventing me from focusing on the present. That EA was 3 years ago. I can't change what happened, I can only change myself and ask my wife to be honest moving forward.

Her transparency and changed attitude are an excellent sign - however you also need to have eyes on her that she is unaware of. She would be triggered if he contacted her in some other way - and she would only need a burner phone to resume things. Use methods she is unaware of too.

Good signs from agreeing NC too - did she send the letter?



Not as far as recovery goes but you and OMW may well need STD tests.

Contact is the same as an ongoing affair and will affect her love for you.

EH, this is a good first step, but giving you access to her emails and texts is good, but only means she can hide things more efficiently. Telling you her daily activities is not a protection because she can just tell you what she chooses. If she knows everything you have access to, then it is no feat to find new ways to hide. The fact that she still uses those resources is very dangerous to your marriage.

In order to truly affair proof your marriage, she should remove the environment that allowed her to cheat. That might be a smart phone [texting], social networks, etc. If she has the same email address and phone # then all it takes is one contact from the OM and she is back in the affair. So any contact information should be eliminated. Any resources she used to conduct her affair should be eliminated. If she conducted her affair over the computer, then she shouldn't be on the computer without you.


She still would have cheated if you had met her needs 100% if she had poor boundaries with men. So, if you don't change that, then all of your efforts will only result in another affair.

I would have her clean up her environment to really protect you and in addition, I would add spyware to everything. Add a key logger to her computer and spyware to her phone. That will give you peace of mind.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

EH, you do understand that continuing contact means the affair is still active right? Your marriage cannot recover unless she ends all contact.

In addition to the affair proofing measures I described above, most marriages do not recover from affairs. They limp along in a crippled state of the pre-affair marriage and are MORE vulnerable after than before. If you don't take these steps, I assure you that you will experience enormous resentment that will grow and grow. But you don't have to be like that if you and your wife follow the basic concepts of this program. The program is designed to create a romantic, integrated relationship with you and your wife. A happy marriage where your needs and her needs are being met will erase the tragedy of the past.

Most people make the mistake of thinking they are out of the woods once they end the affair. Please don't make that mistake:

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I want to make another point here. A woman who has 2 affairs is probably not someone who "fell" into it, but is someone who is out looking for action. With her, I get the sense she is using the computer to troll for action. Would you agree?

Thanks everyone for the advice. I have and will continue to work on these things.


No, I wouldn't agree. The second affair had nothing to do with the computer. It was with a friend of a friend, and was essentially just a one night stand (though it happened twice about two months apart). She was drunk and out with friends and ended up having sex with this man. She hasn't had a drop of alcohol since early January. Nor is she going out to parties. She has been home with me every night since DDay.

You are in Denial about your Wayward Serial Cheating Wife's state of mind and intent when she knew she was going out drinking and looking for action.

Alcohol may decrease a persons inhibitions, but she knew the potential, especially for the 2nd Night out. It was NOT a 1 night stand on 2 separate occassions AND those are the only 2 occassions that she has admitted to.

LTL

Waywards tell you just enough to limit their pain, not yours.

A Wayward wouldn't fly all the way out for a meeting and back out of sex and ruin their dream meeting.

Get a polygraph done.

And even when she spills the beans and confesses "the new truth" to get you to let them back out of it ...have her take it anyways.

I would definitely consider protecting your marriage with serial cheat level security. You can email the doc about that if you're unsure.

It's very rare for women to have one nighters. It's particularly weird that she went back for more given how horrified she would be alongside the hangover.

Dr H says serial cheating in women is often a result of having been an OW before marriage. She ever mention anything like that?

Regardless it's an addiction and serial cheating is a level of addiction which requires far more from recovery.