My wife and I have been married for 4 years and love each other very much. We dated for 4 years before getting married, and during that time we talked a lot about her reasons for not wanting to have kids.

Before marriage we agreed to have one kid and see how it went before deciding to have more (I'd prefer to have 2). She has lots of fears and concerns about child rearing, but the most insurmountable one is that she doesn't want the responsibility of a child for the rest of her life.

When we got married we were optimistic that her maternal clock would start ticking as she got older (we're both 35 now) but that hasn't happened. If my wife ever did get the urge to have a child she'd be perfectly happy to adopt, while I would not want to, I'd prefer to have my own children.

Growing up I always assumed that I'd have kids and never imagined that I'd have to choose between staying married or having children, but that is the situation that I'm in. 6 months ago we separated so that we could take some time to reflect on the situation. It has been very difficult for me to choose between divorce and the possibility of meeting another woman as great as my wife and having a family.

I read the article Should We Have Children? and we've gone through the first 3 solutions but cannot find an answer for solution 4: "Choose the solution that is appealing to both of you". Whether we have a child or don't, one of us is being forced to do something that we don't want to do.

I'd like to stay with my wife but can't help but feel like a fool if I give up on having children. There's also the very real possibility that I will resent her for not having children. Most of my friends and family are recommending divorce because we can't find a solution that works for both of us. I've read through articles and letters here but have yet to find a way to help our marriage get past this issue of children.

What kinds of things are on your list?

You would need to create a life for yourself that is as fulfilling as having children. You avoid resentment by choosing satisfying options.

I was in your shoes before my marriage was ended by an affair, so I sympathize. I was devastated. Ironically since then I've discovered it's possible to have such a satisfying romantic life that it's 'enough' and children would just be a bonus.

If she doesn't want children, it would be a disastrous move. A reluctant mother won't be a good one. Not having them leaves other lifestyle options open - some of of which may be satisfying to you. Having them leaves only one option - one you know will will cause resentment.

I don't think you want kids with someone who doesn't want them.

I see a few DJs in your post. They are very subtle indeed, but they imply you think your take on things is a superior perspective.

You had done some lecturing/persuading before marriage as though she needed educating. You talk about the biological clock as though her desire is unnatural. Im also puzzled as to why you would feel 'like a fool'.

You either need a situation where she explores being around children to see if she could genuinely like them or you need to explore other types of lifestyle which would be as satisfying. Perhaps the freedom to travel, or volunteer work which includes children.

However I get the sense you view this this as a two option only situation. That if you don't get your side to 'win' you are a fool.

Having one child as a practice run, is a truly crackpot idea and wouldn't be supported by MB principles at all.

All children should be genuinely and truly wanted - they should not be compromises.

MB coaches couples to avoid just this type of reluctant agreement and to only make enthusiastic agreements.

I can't shake this feeling that you don't take your wife's perspective seriously. You think it is 'fear' and that once she has a child - she'll love it.

Not so. The world is full of reluctant mothers who wish they'd never done it!

My husband could have written this post five years ago. We had one, he was born disabled, I spent years in resentment. My body, my career, my freedom - gone. MB saved us, but divorce was likely had we not implemented MB.

Not all women have a "clock", I never did. A lot of women don't want kids. Your wife should not have to sacrifice her feelings about children.

The bigger risk to this marriage - or any other marriage you might enter - is that you are placing something else BEFORE your marriage. As you can see, your marriage is on the rocks because of this. If your wife had a child under these conditions, she would certainly have resentment. That resentment would be felt every time she saw the child, on a daily basis.

Your resentment, however, would disappear as soon as something else replaced your very black and white mindset. I don't see that you are truly looking for any other solution than "I want to have a child," which means the negotiation is over before you ever started. So, you have not really brainstormed anything if you went into this with a "my way or the highway" approach. That is not negotiation, that is brow beating.

I hope that she does divorce you on the grounds that you a) put your own desires before your marriage and b) apparently got married to have kids. That approach will doom any marriage. So unless you change that, I would suggest staying single.

And not allowing you to FORCE her to have children is NOT forcing you to do anything. You don't have to DO anything if you don't have a child. She will have to DO something. You are the only one who is controlling in this decision. You are attempting to win at her expense.

here

Who all have you talked to about it?

I'm intrigued by the separation idea and wonder what the goal was there?

I don't see how that could have helped in the decision making process at all. She wasn't exploring ways to become enthusiastic about children with you, and you weren't exploring ways of having a satisfying romantic life with her without children.

It appears you were playing a 'who misses whom more' game of chicken in which some one was supposed to give in.

Is the relationship romantic? Do you spend 15 hours alone together outside the house on dates or recreation?

Having children and maintaining romantic love is obviously more difficult than being in love without them.

It's worth trying to see how far you could enjoy life by placing the marriage first.

Marriage as a route to something else - children, financial stability or a social circle is doomed. The marriage has to come first.

In fact most of the troubled marriages on this forum come as a result of people being parents first, spouses second.

If having children is this important, will most of your spare time in future go on being a parent or on alone time with your spouse? Think about that ratio and then look up what Dr H advises, I think you'll be surprised.

You have to put your spouse first.

Novice,

I'm confused with the others about the details here. A 6 month separation is a pretty serious event in a marriage, so I'm not sure how you can be so confident about being able to get back with your wife so easily. It would seem like there's more to the story here if you guys cannot manage to live together.

I understand where you're coming from. Having a family is the sort of thing you either grow up wanting or you don't, it's a pretty deeply rooted desire. I can even understand (I think) what you're saying about feeling like a fool...having a family was such a dream to you, that you can only imagine having tremendous regrets if you reached the end of life without one.

But what I don't read in all of this is any explanation for why your wife doesn't want children.

What are some reasons your wife has given you for not wanting children? Just curious how much you've tried to understand her perspective here.

I agree with the others that "we were optimistic her maternal clock would start" sounds like it might actually be "I was optimistic her maternal clock would start and convinced my wife to be optimistic with me". I wonder if she's ever wanted children, some women do not.

Who initiated the separation?

Teaching moment; in a good marriage, if a spouse is asked why they don't like something, or don't want to do something, "I just don't" is a completely legitimate answer.

I'll clarify some things and then reply to individual posts. I completely agree that forcing my wife to have children is a bad move: that's not my goal. I also don't believe that my opinion is superior to hers. I posted this question because I'm trying to reconcile our opposite opinions on having kids and evaluate whether or not we can still have a successful marriage.

My situation is similar to C.M.'s in Should We Have Children? #2 - I'm doing a mid-life evaluation and am not happy with my career. My last two jobs have not been as great as advertised when I accepted them in terms of the quality of work, as well as requiring long hours and being very stressful. We live in a mid-sized city that has some opportunities for my line of work, but I've wanted to move for years to a city with better opportunities so that I can grow in my career. My wife doesn't want to move since she moved several times as a kid, wants to put roots down in our current city, and is building seniority at her job and slowly getting better benefits.

The "my way or the highway" comment is ironic, because I often feel that that is her approach to our relationship. We've talked about it but no matter what examples I give (changing cities, what neighborhood to buy a home in, limiting how often her sister pops-in after work so that we can have time to ourselves, what we can do sexually, having kids) my wife says that it's not like that. But we always end up at her preference in these situations. She also wants me to learn a foreign language so that I can communicate with half of her family that lives in another country. Since I am working long hours my free time is limited to the weekend, and that language/culture isn't very interesting to me. I've tried forcing myself to learn it but because I'm forcing myself I don't learn much.

My wife has given many reasons for not wanting to have kids - the responsibility, the permanent physical changes to her body, the chance of a complicated pregnancy, the chance of the child having disabilities or diseases, basically every possible reason. It's her choice to make and I'm not judging it. We've talked to marriage counselors a couple of times (after much convincing from me that it was worth it) but didn't get much out of it, so I thought I'd try this forum out.

@indiegirl - You asked what kind of things are on our list, what do you mean exactly? I just found this website yesterday and am getting up to speed with the terms and teachings. Having such a satisfying romantic life to the point that kids are a bonus sounds great if we can get there. That's why I posted this question - How do we reconcile the kids issue and move forward? I understand that we have to focus on our marriage first. I would feel like a fool going back because I would be giving up on having kids which I've always communicated to her is something that I want. As I mentioned above I already feel like it's "her way or the highway" often in our relationship, so for me to go back and give up on kids seems like that's it; I've given up on everything I wanted and been forced into doing everything her way.

The separation came about for several reasons. We weren't making progress on working through the kids issue, I was getting depressed because of that and because of work, and the condo we were renting was sold and we had to move. Both of us wanted to think things over since the last 2 years have been rough. Our relationship is romantic, we both do little things for each other. We weren't spending 15 hours on it (I just discovered this website and wasn't thinking about the effort in those terms), more like 8-10 hours per week. Recreation is an issue since we have very different preferences there. She likes to go dancing in nightclubs and spend the rest of her time watching TV and relaxing. I like to do outdoors activities like camping, running, and water sports. She doesn't like my activities and vice versa. There are some activities that we both enjoy like picnics, eating out, and playing cards - we just don't enjoy them as much as our individual activities.

I do understand that my spouse has to be my first priority. As my wife has distanced herself from our agreement to have a kid, having children has become much more of my focus and undoubtedly at her expense. From her perspective she gave our marriage her all and I did not. I agree that I haven't given my all, it's been hard to when I feel like I'm always giving in to her and doing what she wants when she wants. Ever since we started dating she didn't want to hang out with my friends, even if they were doing something recreational that she likes to do like watching a movie at someone's house. My wife said that was because she wanted to go "out" and not be in someone's home. But we end up in her friends' homes watching movies and hanging out so I do not understand the logic. We've talked about it, there's always an explanation, but it doesn't make any sense when we end up doing the exact same thing elsewhere. I think she'd just rather spend time with her friends.

Though I haven't given 100% I have given a lot and get her flowers/signs of affection (randomly in addition to important dates), have taken over more of the cooking and cleaning duties, and try to anticipate what she would like/want more often. Unfortunately it never seems to satisfy her. As an example, even if I did the cleaning and my wife had mentioned that we needed to clean earlier in the week then it doesn't count because I "didn't initiate it". If I cook dinner twice during the week that's not enough since she's also cooked twice. If I don't have the coffee maker ready to go in the morning for her (I don't drink coffee) I'm not anticipating her needs. I keep trying and in her eyes failing, which gets frustrating. It feels like I'm being whipped into her ideal husband, spending the majority of my time on her to the point that I can't have my own interests and hobbies.

@MelodyLane - Hoping that my wife divorces me is not constructive and is the complete opposite of what this website is about. I joined this forum to try to save my marriage. I understand the point about putting kids before my marriage. For me it is more that I always thought of marriage and children as going hand-in-hand. If I don't plan on having children with a woman I don't see the point in marrying her; we could just keep dating. To me marriage is the ultimate decision and with it comes the ultimate responsibility of children. I communicated this to my wife before I proposed and she decided that we could start with one child.

@markos - We've talked to close friends as well as our parents. They all either have kids or don't, none of them have worked through this issue like we're attempting to.

@axslinger85 - A 6 month separation is serious, it was heart-wrenching for both of us. We have limited communication with each other to make it as real a separation as possible and so that we can both reflect on our marriage and feelings for each other. We have had dinner several times to catch up and check in. We still love each other very much and my wife has told me that she's holding on to whatever hope is left that we stay married. We can get back together.

I do think that my wife never really wanted to have kids, but she wasn't completely honest with herself or me about it. She really did think she'd change her mind as she got older. She said those exact words to me when we were talking about our original agreement so I am not making any assumptions here.

What I've been thinking about during this time and that I haven't seen answered on this website is, what if you marry the wrong person? If you aren't as compatible as you need to be for a successful marriage, why should you stay together? From what I've read on this website so far, the impression I get is that a marriage should be worked on and maintained in nearly every situation (obviously not if the relationship is abusive, etc). We don't share many recreational interests, I feel like I'm constantly giving in to her, and no amount of discussion has resolved that. There has to be some point at which staying married is not the solution, and I'm searching for what that point is and if we've passed it.

Then you don't understand what Marriage Builders is about. It is not about marriage at all costs. In your marriage, for example, you have almost destroyed it by putting your own desire for children before your wife. Whenever anything is put before marriage, it will eventually come BETWEEN you, as you have seen. You are separated, which is the next step to divorce.


If children - or anything - are more important than your wife, then you have no business getting married. That is not fair to your spouse. What is happening here is not fair to your spouse, which is why I recommended that she get divorced. That would be in her best interest, rather than staying in a marriage where something else comes before her. Such a marriage will never work. Did you separate from her in order to punish her?


Forcing her to do things against her will is controlling. Objecting to your selfish demands is not controlling. Again, it is bad to force your spouse to DO something. You separated from her because she won't concede to your demand to have children, so it is obvious you do practice "my way or the highway."

The obvious problem in your marriage is that you come to your wife with very black and white pre-formed decisions. When you do that, the negotiation is over before you even start. A successful negotiation requires the ability to put your current desire ASIDE and brainstorm to find a THIRD option that you both like as well.


You have both created incompatibility in your marriage by placing your own desires first. A successful marriage finds solutions that make both parties happy. Instead of creating an integrated, romantic marriage, you have both pursued independent recreational activities. You will be incompatible with anyone you marry because of this practice. We can help you turn this around but you have to be willing to place your marriage first.

If I were you, I would email Dr. Harley at this radio show and get his advice. It is free and you don't have to go on his radio show. He is very creative and might be able to get through to you. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

The above comments would explain why you have an incompatible marriage. It sounds like you are doing a lot of sacrificing and neither of you enjoy your time together. Can you explain why you enjoy your own hobbies more than time with her? Is it because you are agreeing to do things with her you don't like doing? Do you have pleasant dates?

Once again, the persistent thread in all of your problems is the inability to negotiate decisions that make you both happy. It looks like you are in the habit of sacrifice, capitulation, compromise, which are all practices that destroy compatibility. But that is something we can help you with. It is unusual to see such a high degree of incompatibility in such a young marriage. Did you live together before marriage?

See, you said it in that long post: "with marriage, comes the ultimate responsibility of children". You are putting an enormous demand on her to get pregnant, give birth, and raise children.

Now, if you childless folks cannot resolve POJA/UA time now, I promise any children will lead to divorce very quickly. It is a million times harder with kids.

How do you feel about a marriage where neither of you does anything without the others enthusiastic support? Dinner, individual hobbies, and of course, having children? How do you feel about the default - no children - as the standard?

If you cannot accept that without holding that against her like a scorecard then yes, divorce is inevitable. She will resent you anyways, feeling like you married a uterus and not her.

This topic came up on 8/14/14.
Tried to download but had tech difficulties.
(Tammy was the caller that day.)

I should have said, on Marriage Builders Radio.

You CAN get there. That's what this program will do for you. If you followed it, you and your wife would be able to create such a fulfilling marriage that not having children will be okay.

Interested?

If you are, you will need to move back in with each other. Get "Lovebusters," "His Needs, Her Needs," and "Five Steps for Romantic Love," and start working through the program together. I'd start with Lovebusters if I were you. If you write into the radio show with a question, they will send you one of those books for free.

On top of that, the most crucial part of the program is a minimum of 15 hours Undivided Attention time together, out of the house. You need to date your wife. You say you are in a romantic relationship, but small tokens of affection and a few hours together doing things you don't really enjoy are not going to create a romantic relationship -- at least, not what we mean by "romantic."

You will also need to find recreational activities that you both enjoy doing. So she enjoys dancing and you enjoy camping, but those are not the only activities that will fulfill you in life. There are hundreds of others that you both have potential for enjoying.

If your wife were in love with you, REALLY in love with you, she might be more open to having children (or to at least considering it). She has no motivation right now, because she isn't in love with you. Concentrate on making your marriage the best it can be, THEN you can tackle difficult problems like whether or not to have children.

You've both created incompatibility. You would both be incompatible with anybody under these rules.

To be satisfactorily married, you have to be 'together at your happiest' - more than 10 hours a week! You should also not be a source of unhappiness to each other.

Flowers and cleaning. Meh. One is too quick the other something unromantic and a basic self care thing you'd do in any home.

Neither of you understand that if one of you doesn't want it - then it doesn't happen.


If she says she doesnt want to hang out in peoples homes - hang the logic - IT DOES NOT HAPPEN.

If you don't want her relatives coming round. IT DOES NOT HAPPEN.

Find other solutions - don't just go with the 'I really want it so give it to me' angle.


After submitting to so many unhappy agreements - you've gone your own ways socially.

Find ways to be together AND happy. Parting ways to be happy doesn't count!

You couldn't possibly work as a team and successfully parent in this situation.

Other types of lifestyle or life goals that could make you happy aside from kids. How many solutions did you brainstorm? You said you'd completed that part.