It's a vicious cycle that can easily be reversed.

She feels others are the priority, she withdraws to the point she doesn't want to be competing with them anymore.

If you're her priority over and above everyone, she won't need to withdraw from that cycle.

Please answer this question:

So do you want to begin now living as you will do when you are divorced?

THIS is the problem!!!

Until she knows beyond a doubt that your will prioritize, defend and protect her around your family, it IS an either or situation. This happened because you didn't protect her in the first place. Probably hasbe little or NOTHING to do with travel etc.

Any further discussion about this with her is confusing you. Just stop it!!

"there is no animosity on their side" sounds like you judge your family as being reasonable and your wife as being unreasonable.

Because I think 'hatchets were buried' 5, 6, 8 years ago. Because they invite us up there often. Because my wife is missed if/when I go without her. Because I've cut way back on my trips and closeness to them.
I'm between a rock and a hard place where they don't know they're not as welcome here as we are there.
I HAVE cleaved to my wife and Appreciate her position. So don't think it has to do with that.
Because I believe God calls us to be in relationship with loved ones.

Remark

I didn't say that. I just don't think hold any animosity from years ago. Now, it is true that they offended her as opposed the she offending them.

Remark

You are right. In fact, they didn't say anything to offend her that I hadn't shared with them. Indeed I caused this long term debacle.

I've learned not to do that, repented,, and don't do anymore. I've distanced myself from them without cutting them off altogether.
Remark

No, of course not.
Remark

Is this your answer to my POJA question? (If you quote the post you are replying to, that helps.)

I don't think you've quite understood what I am asking. I am asking whether you understand what Dr Harley's recommendation would be on this issue. I am asking what you don't understand, because you said something about being confused on what to do.

Tell me what you think he is saying, overall, in those responses.

Do you understand why I asked you this question? Do you understand the implications of doing what your wife says, and going to see them on your own?

She is, but I can't convince her when other things get in the way.

Remark

Saying she is your priority then doing what you want is SHOWING HER she is not your priority.

I know that, repent of that, needs months of proving it to win her back.

This isn't the way a guy talks when she's first priority. You are looking at the argument her vs them. You are talking about what *you* think God calls you to do.

Cleaving does not mean standing in the middle assessing both sides as a third party. It means standing at your wife's right hand and looking at the way this situation does not work for you and your wife. Resentment has affected your marriage because they have been given too much precedence.

If you were stood next to your wife you would see that hatchets aren't buried from THIS angle, that mere invitations simply don't go far enough, that your wife may may be missed, but she isn't visited either.

You would see that 'cutting back' is a very weak kneed response. The kind of thing a middle man does. Who made you a middle man? YOU did. You put yourself 'between a rock and a hard place' instead of staying OUT of the middle and by your wife's right hand.

'Cutting back' is nothing to pat yourself on the back for. It means you are still sneaking away from your marriage to commit IB whenever you want to. It also sends the message that you know better than she does about being a good person (particularly with that crack about God).

The husbandly thing to do would be to tell your wife that you DONT WANT TO GO because it would mean either being without her or upsetting her. Not with a hangdog face either, but like a husband who would miss his wifes happiness too much for such an idea.

If one day she wants to invite them over, great, but you have LISTENED to her objections about traveling out to them.


You really do have to be that all in.

It would probably be a lot easier to be around them AFTER they stop being the all-out priority she either had to drop everything for to travel to see - or lose her husband to.

Indiegirl,

I hear you. I agree with you. They were never a priority in that way. We just went up there much more than they came down here and in our early years, when we had conflict, I shared too much with them. More like me, they sided with me. I screwed up big time when that occurred.

In fact, it doesn't matter if I have you, the entire forum and Dr H on my side, if she feels like leaving the marriage, she's going to leave the marriage.

My parents didn't alienate her. They are not the issue. My stepmother is the one my wife IS comfortable with. (My bio-mother passed away 35 years ago.)

It's interesting that your byline talks about fear. Because I fear I'll never see my dad again even with my seeing him occasionally. I fear losing my wife over things like this and fixing toilets.

If my wife's happiness is more important than my own, perhaps I should move out. Dr Harley talks about the final stage of when a woman is so withdrawn, she cannot prevent her resentment from being ever present.

We're there because of my bad decisions for 20 years and I fear she has mentally left the relationship despite whatever I can do now.

It would be much easier to make that commitment, too, if I we were on better terms, not committing LB's and meeting each others' EN's. But, I'm hanging and will convey how important she is to me yet again tonight.

Thanks,
Remark

Yes and no. It's not my preference. Though not excited about it, I'm not making a selfish demand that I go or she come along. Of course, she is more important to me.

Maybe I just have a weird sense of family. How often do normal people see their extended family when they live 5-6 hours away?

Ironically, when she died, my mother said something like "Maybe me dying this way (of cancer) will keep our family close" or something like that.

I love my wife, regret all my foul ups and want to do the right thing. If we stay together, I'll defer my family for as long as it takes.

Remark

Apples, I understand that, repent of that, which means I stop doing that. She is my no. 1 priority. It disappointed her Saturday that I didn't get on the forum when she requested it. I waited 2-3 hours until I got some other things done. When she communicated that upset her, I've been on the forum almost every waking hour using my phone to keep current as I haven't mastered the e-mail thing yet (where it emails you when you get a posting response.)

I'm still dedicated SHOWING/PROVING to her how important our marriage is to me.

Remark

It interests me that she requested you post to the forum again. I really think that this is a sign that she is giving you a chance. If she begins to see consistent effort and commitment from you, she might just give it another day, and another.

I can see that you are trying now. What you must not do is fail to honour your commitment to her. Your task, for now, is to eliminate all love busters, and not to make any decisions unless you have her enthusiastic agreement. If she won't POJA something with you, do nothing. If you do anything without POJA, you are killing your marriage.

My impression is that your biggest love buster is independent behaviour. The incident with the toilet involved dishonesty, but what motivated the dishonesty was your desire to do what you wanted. You did it, and lied about it.

The long-standing issues with your family, and with going to church and other activities, seem also to stem from independent behaviour. You have basically lived your life the way you wanted to, without taking your wife's opinions and desires into account.

Therefore, I would say that IB is your biggest problem, and, as we know, POJA is the solution to that. You also need to eliminate your other faults, such as not giving your wife your full attention when she talks to you, and not following through on your commitments, but I think IB is making the biggest holes in your love bank balance.

Do you agree?

Yes, I agree that IB has been my Achilles heal for many years.

When she started sleeping in the other bedroom a few years ago, noy doing few things with me, and complained of my softball playing with my adult daughters, I argued back saying, 'don't even think of taking about my last joy in life away from me'. I didn't really consider it IB as she was invited to come along and play too, if she wanted. I was wrong, I screwed up. I'm not defending, just not leaving you short of information about my marriage.

I've had a some bad habits much of my adult life. It's time for me man up and be the Harley husband I'm capable of being.

Did you happen to hear the MBRadio show today? He was referring to us at one point.

Thanks for your encouragement,
Remark