Is there any success story of an unhealthy relationship that cycles back and forth between "nice periods" and then the angry outburst followed by the sorry stage, going back to nice period, but falling again and again in the same same same same cycle? Is there any story who has achieved this without the need to separate? What are the odds of the couple being able to survive and change this into a healthy relationship?

These cycles are typical in renter-type relationships, as described by Dr. Harley in his book Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders.

Regarding separation, Dr. Harley discourages cohabitation outside of marriage in order to avoid these types of unhealthy circumstances.

Most marriages that show up here in crisis experience exactly what you describe. That is what this program serves to eliminate. The program teaches spouses to develop good habits that are used consistently.

I'm married, cycle is within the same roof, read HNHN and Love Busters, am pretty familiar with concepts, have written to Dr Harley who advised to separate until my husband eliminates all angrty outburst. The problem is that I am too weak and return always at his first Im sorry, lets restart. What I want to know is that if I dont separate when I was advised to, is it still possible to break our unhealthy pattern to a healthy one. My husband is also trying to apply the concepts. He is just way way to slow in making changes. We are starting therapy again, but we are doing individual each. I just want someone to reply YES, it is possible.

Your husband will not stop his angry outbursts if you do not set the bar high. If all it takes to keep you is an "I'm sorry," then that's as far as he will go.

You should separate like Dr. Harley advised you to do. Plan on the separation lasting at least a year until he can prove that he has eliminated his angry outburts.

No, it is not possible.

I was trying to apply the concepts, too, but our marriage still did not get better until my wife separated from me. She is posting to you now. Listen to her, and listen to Dr. Harley.

x 2

Your H knows he has to do very little to keep you so NO he will not change his behavior and the unhealthy craziness will continue. If you choose to be weak then you are signing up for more craziness.

Prisca and Markos, first of, congratulations on MB baby first birthday. Best wishes to baby.

Prisca, I am so glad you posted. I did separate, but it lasted only a day before I got extremely anxious and ended up calling him. But in less than a week, he got another big angry outburst. Despite our long twisted history, deep down inside, I know he wants the best for me too, just as I want for him.

So, if I am to separate, I need to know ...

1) How do we not get even further away emotionally while separated? We are already at a very tense period.
2) How do I deal with anxiety from separation. It is not like I want to be separated. I just reasonably know that it is probably the best way to go.

Have you exposed his AOs and angry behavior to your family and his? Do they witness it themselves?

ETA: How long have you been married and how old are you and your H?

Separation or plan B will help you keep the love you have for your husband safe. If you stay and experience more of his AOs your love bank will only suffer withdraws

Is your H in anger management?

You are getting further away emotionally because of his angry outbursts. The longer that goes on, the worse your marriage will get and the harder it will be to recover. Separation is intended to stop the bloodletting so you can recover. You can't recover like this.


How do you deal with the anxiety from the fights with your husband? It doesn't seem like you are taking this too seriously. There isn't much hope when we take this more seriously than you.

Oh man... All of this is exactly what I am struggling with. Separate not separate... Begging, apologies, outside advice, etc. A willingness to go to counseling on his part now. So much craziness!!! How many chances does one give. AlienGirl I feel your pain!!!

But I think we need to take this advice seriously. People who tell us to stay are not in the situation or strong enough to do it. It's hard because when things are good they are very good, aren't they. But when you cross that unknown line it's beyond horrible, isn't it. I keep reminding myself that women in abusive situations whether verbal or physical return for more. We can do this!

Mom, just so you know, this is not frivolous advice. It is a tried and true tactic that can work to save marriages that is suggested by Dr. Bill Harley. Check this out: When to Call it Quits

With respect - I don't think that you and AlienGirl are dealing with the same situation.

AlienGirl has separated from her H more than once,and she has gone back to him when he wheedles her around. As far as I can see, you haven't yet separated from yours. However, you do need to ensure that you go ahead with separating from your husband, and that you do not go back until and unless his anger has been stopped for a significant period of time.

AlienGirl, you know you need to do this properly this time, and not go back to your H after one night apart.

He cannot manage his behaviour by simply resolving to do so, and we've yet to see any detail of what this therapist is teaching him to do, and what his or her view is on the abuse you are suffering. If this therapists thinks you can ride this out for a while even though your husband continues to abuse you verbally, he or she is actually a danger to you.

In all due respect SugarCane, I have left my husband three times. The first for a week the second and third times were overnight. Always returning with promise of change. I guess it's time to make things more permanent for awhile.

I apologise - I must have not read your first post properly.

I

No you did, it's just when I am trying to think about what to write I don't add maybe everything that's pertinent. I guess in a way I wasn't thinking of those times as a separation because they were so short - but I guess they are.