Thanks for your advice BrainHurts. WH fell off the deck and has 20 stitches in his head. So we will deal with that first ! looking for a key logger software instead as I can do that
Many thanks for all your help.

Hi Melodylane

Yes son has been told facts of affair including dates, specific events which were effected, why certain things are triggers and have been removed. wH disclosed email of 6/2/15 and its attachments to DS which we discussed as it meant we would no longer be going to a concert with him. I told him name and locations of OW. He is aware of my level of pain and is very sad. I haven't shown him a picture but his girlfriend has done a search on OW as they live close.

I've seen the thread on spyware ( it's how I found Wondershare) will look for key logger software.

Many thanks

Sorry for not posting an update. H had a lengthy recovery from his head injury and his Dad died 10 days ago. I'm feeling quite overwhelmed and am having difficulty seeing whats really going on anymore. Please can you help me gain some perspective ? All this stuff is tangled up in my head and Im struggling to find the right options.

Ive finally gotten H to update his iphone ( and now have ALL the passwords) so I now have 'find my iphone' on and he loaded a GPS tracker on it for me. I want to install webmaster but I can't use my credit card as it is a joint one. Im not working and can't get a credit card without them asking my husband to guarentee it. I asked my Mum and a friend if they would pay and I can reimburse them with cash. They both refused (my Mum says I should leave and doesnt want me to spend the money, my friend thinks I should just trust H, or shouldnt be in a relationship where i feel the need to spy) Ive explained about marriage builders but they dont get it. I will ask someone else but am still stuck with that at the moment.

H still works at the same company and this continues to be a problem as I havent found work. We have tried where I go with him on the days he goes to the office, but being in this suburb empties my lovebank (big trigger) and obviously him being in the same office is unsafe. We havent sold our house and the renting option has been shelved whiloe we sort out animals etc and with everything else thats been going on.

H is home so I will send more soon !

More from the deepths of the forest :-)

H has changed his behaviour in the past couple of weeks. He seems more withdrawn. I have asked him about this and he has denied it. Our UA time has fallen from 20 hours four weeks ago to 5 and 10 hours. This week he has made a concerted effort to follow MB.

I asked him ten days ago to take responsibility for remembering to initiate and lead the UA timesheet process each week as a sign of his commitment ( H has a history of making agreements and then saying he hasnt or changing his mind, not remembering - so i asked for this in writing and got rewards and consequences in place) On Saturday (two days after it was Due to be filled in but 1 day after his dads funeral) I brought the timesheet out and said that under the circumstances I didnt want to put the consequences in place and would he be up to doing it today.H said it want just his responsibility and I should have done it. I said I was reminding him now and in fact he had taken responsibility, in writing. H then said he can't see what day it is and when it needs to be redone because he can't read it, he said I should remind him. I said that was one option or he could put his glasses on and look at it clearly ( it's on the fridge !). We agreed that this was a better option ( I didn't get this in writing and yesterday he said that I had agreed to remind him)

I think Im getting alot of wayward speak from a lazy H but not sure if Im being paranoid, controlling and have set my expectations too high. Ive asked for reassurance and protection and given examples but I get " I love you, you're beautiful and sexy" (also said repeatedly to OP in texts) I don't feel protected and my lovebank feels the lowest its been since D-day. I am sick of hearing that he has forgotten or didnt understand something we agreed on. He remembered every bloody day for a year not to tell me he was with OP !

Our IC sucks ! This was my 1st EN ( H & O is now) H is usually a good talker, H says this is because he was stoned. I have asked again why he is reticent and reserved the past three weeks and he says because a friend who we went to see for his head injury ( massage, naturopath and my aunt) said that there are no mistakes its just life experience and so he put it all behind him and moved on. I said that was great and what I was trying to do, but if it meant that he forgot or wasn't aware of triggers and situation where I was being hurt then that straegy wasn't working for me.

I'm sorry for the incoherent babble. I'm just trying to get everything out quickly before I have to go out. Please post me your advice and I will try to put it in place. I don't feel I can trust my own judgement and my friends and family don't have an MB stance so Im looking for some guidance.

Thank you all so much for the support,
W

Last week H said that me not knowing how much he loves me is a big lovebuster for him. I thanked him for sharing and told him the next day ( our UA and LB discussion day) that me loving him or not is completely his choice. If he meets my EN and avoides LB then I will eventually love him. Did I do that right ?

thanks,

Wilmak, your husband is not doing much to rebuild this marriage, and there must be a reason for that. I suspect that he and OW are in contact again.

Stop pushing and parenting him to fulfil UA time. You can tell him that it's something you need to stay in the marriage, but don't organise or chivvy him and beg him, the way you have been doing. If he won't spend this time with you willingly, eventually you will have to leave him.

Where you live, would you be able to buy a pre-loaded cash card, paid for by saving a little cash each time you go to the supermarket? You might even be able to pay for the card in amongst your grocery shopping, using your credit card as normal to pay for the shopping, as long as your H does not check the grocery bill. You can use the debit card to pay an online bill (for the keylogger).

I get particularly incensed when a wayward or otherwise abusive spouse exploits Dr Harley's concepts to bamboozle and upset the spouse they are abusing. "Not knowing how much he loves you" cannot be a love buster. Your H is turning Dr H's concepts back on you to make you feel bad and to get you leave him alone. It is a form of gaslighting. It is a particularly cruel thing to do. if you do not feel that he loves you, this is because of what he has done by having an affair, and is still doing by punishing you for having discovered it. Don't argue with him about what is or isn't a LB, but never apologise for this again.

What did you mean by your "IC" not working? Are you seeing an individual counsellor? Is your H spilling his guts at these sessions and talking about his pain, in front of you? If so, no wonder this is not working. You need to stop any form of IC, and you need to stop allowing your H to talk about his "feelings" to you, since, at present, his feelings are dominated by his affair, and thus you are being forced to listen to him mourn your having disrupted his affair.

I think you need to prepare to ask him to leave. Give him a short time - a couple of weeks at most - to get on board with UA and to come out of his funk. If he has been in NC since January, his depressed mood should have lessened by now, not deepened as it has done. Something is very wrong here.

You also need to press on with moving away.

I think she is referring to the EN of IC, not counseling.

WOW so she is a massage therapist, naturopath specialist, AND a marriage counselor??? Quite the credentials.

That is one of those trendy antidotes that people like to say in the world today...'there are no mistakes, only life experiences." Um, no, unless you don't believe in right and wrong and believe that doing something WRONG is a mistake (def: an action or judgement that is misguided or WRONG) then you CAN make a mistake.

I agree with SugarCane that it sounds like he still has contact with the OW.

Thank you sugarcane and unwritten. Yes I meant intimate conversation. Sorry for the confusion. There is no counselor in our city familiar with MB so we aren't doing that. Saving for the home study course.

Thanks for the great idea. I hadn't thought of a cash card ( really am having trouble thinking !) I will get one on Monday. Yay :-)

I agree with you both. I think he's in withdrawal as he hasn't been able to go to the office much in the last six weeks and not at all in the last 10 days. Key logger won't help with that. But at least I can stop the email if it's still happening. OW is supposed to be blocked on his laptop but I will check that again tomorrow. I'm in surgery this morning but after that I will just have to go with him EVERY time he goes until we sell.

I'm working on interrupting my implicit memory but I can't keep it up for 3 hours when we're right in the idle of the scene of the crime ! Any other ideas ?

I have a plan B but I've seen definite improvement. He won't leave the house and I can't make him legally. The house is my only asset and he can make it really hard to sell if I leave. Plan B is going to turn into plan D very quickly I think.

Key logger and constant companion while being cheerful and supportive is my current plan.
Keep up the good ideas and I'll try to implement them.
Thank you

Wilmak, you can probably get him to leave. The first way would be to pack his bags and ask him to leave. Second way is to file for divorce and get him kicked out. You are not perpetually chained to a wayward husband.

I don't understand this. How do you block from a particular device? Isn't it the email account that can be set up to block her - and thus this can be done from any device? (I might be wrong - my knowledge is very limited.)

You need a keylogger for that laptop, also. I don't know if there are any on the market that allow for multiple installations from one piece of software. The one I know about, Eblaster, only allows for one installation per purchase.

Do you have spyware on his phone?

You might need more money than you thought.

Thanks sugarcane. They are an IT company so OW was blocked at the server not his laptop. Key logger will check this but I did ask his employer today and she said there was no contact from OW.
I use find my iPhone and dr wonder share on H phone. Nothing there and no deleted texts or emails since December (which is when I asked for this)
I have cash with a friend in case I have to plan B, so just need to buy a card and load it. Then get around the firewalls on their servers.
melody: I'm sure I can apply enough pressure to get him to leave if I need to. Legally neither of us can force the other to vacate, we have to negotiate. but if I need to make him leave I will.
My surgery went better than expected and H has been very supportive this week. He listened to MB radio and has stuck to UA time. Picked me flowers, bought chocolate and NO independent behavior! Which is a first for him. Lots of thank you'd and gratitude when I do something. Also he initiated SF and voluntarily went to chemist for Viagra. Which he hasn't meeded. So maybe he's coming out of the fog ? Too soon to tell but certainly showing more commitment than in the past four months.
I've asked H repeatedly to tell me when I do LB ( I've been working really hard on these) and he doesn't. Also I've asked h in what ways I can meet his EN ( admiration affection ) but apart from touch he just sayse being happy is all he needs. He says he's not as self aware and doesn't know. This is not helpful ! Any ideas ?
He asked for my login to read my ebook of FILSIL so hopefully he will do that. He has read HNHN only.
H says he doesn't know what to say to reassure me but does want to protect me and our marriage. I've said I will tell him what words and actions I find reassuring and give him a list of triggers so he can help avoid them. H being in bed on his laptop is a trigger and he has avoided this. Last night we were both reading on our laptops in bed and I got up to make a cup of tea. He asked if I wanted him to come withe or shut his laptop and I said it was ok. But I heard him sit up in bed (he was getting up to take the tray for me) and I realized the trigger is the noise of him quickly [censored] the laptop and getting up. We talked about this and now we know what to do.
Recovery is such a mine field and so exhausting!
please let me know if I'm getting any of this right.
Many thanks
W
H asked that we create a safe zone around his office which I'm happy to be in.

I would focus on getting in 15-20 hours of UA time every week and during that time, focus exclusively on the 4 intimate emotional needs.


The correct book is Surviving an Affair. Do you both have that?


What does this mean?

This was posted this month and you also posted that the last contact was the beginning of February, 2/6?

I am sorry to tell you that there has been more recent contact that your H is not telling you about. Given that the OW can easily contact him through the workplace (blocking her email is not adequate) then that just confirms the suspicion.

Thank you for your reply MelodyLane and SusieQ. Yes I've read SAA H has not but now he has my kindle login he can read it if he wants. He knows it's there.

UA time is 16 hours this week. That's planned time. Unplanned is time is 8 hours. My problem is how to meet his need for affection and admiration. I tell him things he says or does that I admire or respect, massage his back, cuddle, kiss, touch him him when I walk past him. But he doesn't know specifically what I do that makes him feel loved. Just if I'm happy, he's happy. I'm fairly good at that but sometimes I'm just so sad. Am I over thinking this or should we do our EN questionnaire again ?

H would like me to go to the office with him once a week and help work so we have more time together. I am happy to do this but I get very upset driving around OW house and office so he asked that we draw a line on the map of where I won't go and where he can't go. Does that make sense ?

I've asked if he had contact with OW or was upset about his Dad passing away. He says no he's fine and happy and being totally honest. Loves having me with him all the time.
Its a national holiday here this weekend and shops are closed but I'm getting that cash card and key logger on Tuesday !

I think I need to bring up renting the house out and moving again. This discussion was shelved after his accident and the funeral stuff. There is also discussion with his employer about moving the office to another town which would affect where we moved to. This would really help but will take time.

I hope I answered your question ML. I'm on my phone as my laptop is busy searching H's. Very tricky even with my glasses on :- )

Thank you for your help.

Sorry SusieQ I didn't reply properly. I think there has been email but I can't find proof yet ( key logger in 4 days yay) so I think I have to wait for proof before a plan B. he can't have seen OW for at least three weeks as he hasn't had time away from me or his family ( who are supporting our marriage) it's an email if at all. I may be paranoid. There's nothing on his iPhone and he employer would hear if he used the office phone. No money unaccounted for. Nothing on home phone. He could have another phone but I've searched thoroughly and regularly. I know there have been gaps in surveillance but I'm plugging them now.

Working on UA time today. Thanks for clarifying where I'm up to in all this.

"H would like me to go to the office with him once a week and help work so we have more time together. I am happy to do this but I get very upset driving around OW house and office so he asked that we draw a line on the map of where I won't go and where he can't go. Does that make sense ? "

You go by the OW house and office??

What have you done in your 16 hours? Could you give us a list, with the hours spent each time?

If he says you are meeting his needs well, then accept that. Don't badger him about it.

If you do the whole MB programme, then one of the concepts you will cover is radical honesty. You will be encouraged to be radically honest about your feelings about each other and the marriage (the subject of the affair will forever be off the table, though), as well as about your past lives (again, affair excepted). If he is not being honest now, as you begin to practice that in your marriage, your husband will see the benefits of being honest with you about everything, including how well you are meeting his ENs, and what else he would like you to do.

You should redo the EN questionnaire from time to time, as needs change as we go through life, but do not redo it as a way of pressuring him to tell you something that you suspect he isn't telling. Implying that he is not telling you the whole truth about his feelings is a DJ.

Yes, why not do that? You shouldn't be asked to go anywhere that bring OW to mind, ever again, so why not tell him where those places are?

Is there an alternative to actually going to his office, such as working online at home, or doing some sort of foot-slogging outside the office - with customers?

Don't ask. You should not be bringing her up, and also, you cannot trust him to tell you if he does have contact. Instead, you need to quickly bring about conditions in which contact is impossible.

Yes, bring up renting the house, urgently, again. Living where you are is stalling your progress.

Hello Again,

It�s been a long time since I posted so a lengthy update;

Our farm finally sold in August. We had planned to separate finances and live together in a house I bought to renovate together, while H would buy a house with huge garage for his office and vehicles etc and rent his house out. 5 days before moving he informed me he had secretly seen a lawyer and changed the financial settlement. So we moved independently into our own houses. My friends and family want nothing to do with him. Our son is angry and aloof with H, uncomfortable with me.
Since then H has been reliable, considerate, attentive and supportive. We spend most nights together. He travels to head office once a month still. Sometimes I�m able to go with him. H has made no effort to learn how to have open honest intimate conversation despite my requests (and his agreement) to do marriagebuilders, go to counselling, read books. I am unable to move forward without this.
H wants us to buy a house together to live in ( neither of us want to live in each others house) he says he is committed to the relationship, but won�t learn how to communicate intimately. I don�t want to live somewhere I can�t have my friends and family over as I miss real conversation and this is something he is unwilling to supply. H wants to have one night a week at his own house as he says he needs the space as the relationship is too intense. Other things seem very good most of the time.
He says he�s happy and has no need to talk about the relationship, but happy to listen to me if I need!
Sounds like a renter attitude still and my own fault for not sticking to my boundaries :-/
What do I do now ?

Plan B.