Hi,

I am 4 months post D-day.... My wife and I have married in 2000 and our twins were born in 2008.

In Oct 2013, i found an odd email thread on her account about meeting someone for coffee, but never confronted her about it, but my suspicions were aroused

On Dec 18th 2013, I found texts from a man who was planning on meeting her later that evening for drinks. I was 99.9% sure that when she left that night, she was going to meet another man for sex

On Dec 19th, 2013, I found pics in her text app of her in another man's shirt over her naked body, on a bed whose sheets didn't match any of the sheets in out house. I knew 100% that she was having an affair. I confronted her that evening.

She admitted to 4 different affairs dating back to June 2013

On Dec 20th, I asked for all her mail account passwords and access to her texts, and asked to hack into her phone to retrieve any deleted correspondence.

That night, she admitted that it was 8 different affairs dating back to Nov 2013 for the first sexual encounter with a man who she began texting/sexting w daily in Sept 2013

She answered every question I asked her. I know names, locations, dates, acts, etc...i know more than i ever want to know.

I think after the disclosure I had a total mental breakdown. I had divorce papers drawn up and had her sign them on Jan 2nd. Sitting across from me in our living room, she texted a former lover of hers for support.

I began attending S-anon meetings Jan 5th, and she began attending SLAA meetings that week as well. I started individual counseling as well.

Feb 4th, 2pm , i decided that i could no longer live with the pain, and decided I was going to kill myself. I decided my note would simply say "NOW, WE ARE EVEN", and i felt it would be the best revenge as every time she looked at our children , she would know that I killed myself because of what she had done.

She, along w my sister and best friend and best friends wife, took me for a psych eval the next day and I started Intensive Outpatient Program DBT therapy for the next 12 weeks.

Last session was Thu Apr 18th

I am no longer suicidal..... i have learned some coping skills to manage my thoughts and emotions....but the pain is still huge.... the fear is huge...the anger is huge...the hurt is huge....i want to forgive for my own sake, but i can't. i don't understand how i can trust her again, but over the last 4 months, she hasn't given me any reason to not trust her.

She has shown deep regret, remorse....sorrow...patience..empathy...sympathy....

We are in couples counseling and have been for months.....

I just want to talk to someone who understands what its like.
some days I think "i am here...i breath..i get up ..i go to work...i function...i am not being defined by my wifes actions....i am not accepting blame...she did this...she chose..... and i get to chose...i choose everyday ...i choose every moment.... and i choose to deal with it...to manage my thoughts and emotions..... but somedays..... i just wish it would all go away and i'd wake up and it would be a bad dream..... somedays i love my wife and want to forgive her because i know that is my first real step in moving forward in healing, but other days i can't even look at her

Your thread should be in SAA.




Are you divorced now?

No WS is worth killing yourself over. I hope you think of your children and pull yourself together for their sake.

Welcome to MB

With all due respect, none of that will protect you from a repeat of her affairs. Every cheater knows how to cry crocodile tears and show great "remorse" when it serves their interests. That is cute, but it will not protect you. What will protect you is a radical change in her behavior that makes it impossible for her to cheat again.


Talking yourself into ignoring your valid fears will not work for long. You can only bs yourself for so long and then it stops working. A better solution would be for your wife to change her behavior that led to her affairs. THEN you will begin to feel safe and trust her again. This program focuses on changing BEHAVIORS because if your wife does not change her BEHAVIORS, your feelings will not change.

You won't ever trust her again unless she earns that trust back.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Was it 4 or 8 different affairs with 4 to 8 different men?

Were these affairs via a website like Ashley Madison?

Is your wife bi-polar???

thank you all for your warm welcome.


my wife is in individual counseling as well, and we both attend couple therapy
she has been working on herself these last few months.

The first thing that i did after D Day was tell her she needed to start going to Sex-Addicts-Anonymous meetings
The 2nd thing I told her was she needed to get a STD test, and I got one my self.
Thankfully, both of us came back clear. Will go for a 6 month check in in June to make sure nothing else came up

The first month/s were the worst. Lost 10 pounds in 2 weeks.... was a wreck..anxiety attacks...panic attacks...suicidal thoughts.... my intensive therapy helped tremendously...but I know now that no therapy will provide a WHY, or an answer...the therapy just gives me some clarity of mind and skills on how to cope with pain in life.

"Pain in inevitable. Suffering is optional"

But....even w my coping skills....... I am still suffering. I know it's going to be a rollarcoaster. I tell myself even when I fall down....i am not falling backwards....i may fall down...but its all part of the journey forward and I'll be picking myself backup again

I was diagnosed w moderate to severe depression in 2006. I had long though I suffered from depression for years, but never did anything about it, until my cousin who was 1 year younger then me, killed himself.... at the funeral we found out he had suffered from depression for years. I make a dr appt the next day, started CBT therapy and Celexa

I used to use a benchmark of WORST DAY in my life... i was 23 and found out my 25 year cousin died in a motorcyce accident. That was the bench mark for me. After DDAY...... i have a new bench mark

Some days I feel NORMAL.... and then i start to ask myself "why do you feel normal....you shouldnt feel normal at all....ever..... your wife had 8 affairs in 15 months...you should never be normal again"......

My Pysch moved me to Prozac a month or so ago, and that seems to help...but now, even though my thoughts dont obsess about the details and visions of the affairs...i do get consumed by the emotions day to day.
Some days its SADNESS....some days its FEAR...some days its ANGER..... its 4 months after dday, and post intensive therapy...and its ONLY NOW, that I am starting to be able to get in touch with the emotions I am feeling...

I endedup hacking her phone and mail and found tons of nude selfies she sent to the guys she actually met and had sex with, and other photos she sent to guys she never met, and read all the texts/sexts/mails etc...

I have quit going back to those, although i did make a backup off all of that stuff in case i do decide to proceed w divorce.

She admitted to me, that one of the guys she was with from June-Sept, that she actually "Fell in Love with"...and she "fell in love with him" because of all the guys she was with...he reminded her most of me??????????

She is working thru it...I am working thru it. We both want to save the marriage and not have our children suffer for her mistakes.

Its maddening for me somedays.... one day I feel I LOVE HER....the next day i feel NOTHING for her

The DBT/IOP therapy was life changing and life saving for me. DBT is a therapy developed by Dr. Marsha Linehan and involves four main modules
Emotional Regulation
Mindfulness
Interpersonal Effectiveness
Distress Tolerance.

Higher recommend her books or websites

Mr Wondering
Your handle made me laugh...as my wife used to refer to one of the 8 men as "Mr Wondeful" to her other lovers.

it was 8 different men.... 8 different affairs
some thru Ashely Madison
some thru Craigslist

Therapists dont believe she fits the profile for Sex Addict, or BiPolar, but there is definitely some borderline personality disorder there. we just havent dug deep enough yet...

Gettingintune, read all the articles on this site. There is a link to click on.

This will help you start the path to recovery. Then today order the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley.

I doubt she is a sex addict...most serial cheaters are not sex addicts.

I would encourage you to write Dr H given your mental and emotional health.

her therapist , and our marriage therapist agree that she does not fit the profile of a sex addict..... some hypersexuality for sure, but doesn't fit the sex addict criteria..... doesn't seem to fit bipolar as well, but very well may have some aspect of borderline personality disorder, and fall somewhere within the autism/asperger spectrum.

i almost wish there was a medical diagnosis that could explain her actions, but there isn't it. we are only in the beginning of our path of discovery

Are you going to write Dr. Harley or get onboard with the MB Program? Blog threads will end up locked. You can talk to Dr. Harley and it's free.

It's not mentally abnormal to have affairs. There's no such thing as a diagnosis for affairs. Humans are wired to connect to anyone they have lots of contact with.

You need to take action. Counsellors and blogging here is not action. It is just standing around describing the problem.

I highly recommend you take action to make your life happy by actually affair proofing your marriage. You should not be discussing the A so counselling is the WORST thing you could do.

It is absolutely the worst pain in the world. We know.

But to stop it take ADs if necessary and solid action. Like the recovery program here.

There is absolutely no need to wallow in the pain and make it your life.

I'm confused by this. You say talking about the A and counseling are the worst things I can be doing?

I believe I have taken some action, but it would seem not the correct actions according to this site

2 days after disclosure, i informed my best friend , who is also a lawyer. he drew up divorce papers, had them proofed by the best divorce lawyer in town, and I had my wife sign them a week later

I knew i couldnt manage this on my on, so I started S-anon mtgs and individual therapy asap

i told my wife i'd sit on the divorce papers for 90 days and see what comes of the time I give her

i told her words are meaningless, and i need to see real change and action....saying im sorry to me, doesnt mean anything to me

i had her disclose to her parents, but she only told them she had been have A affair for the last year. I told her, she needed to tell her parents the WHOLE story, or i would tell them myself. I had long discussions w her parents after that.

she has disclosed to her two older brothers about her infidelity

i've told my sister (my parents are both dead)

i've also confided in two other of my closest friends, and one close co-worker

ive talked to my cousin about this who is a minister
part of that exposure was to build my support network

there are quite a number of people in our circle of friends and family who know about her exploits

i insisted my wife begin attending SLAAanonmous meetings

i have access to her email and text apps.

she hasn't been out anywhere with out me knowing where she is

we both go to couples therapy

i insisted she go to individual therapy as well to see if there is some borderline personality disorder

i insisted she be tested for STDS, and i was tested as well

i disclosed the story to my PCP (who is also her PCP) as I needed an increase in my SSRI after disclosure

she did not send a letter to the men, but she did send emails/texts to all of the men saying
"i have been found out. do NOT contact me again"
she hasnt had any contact w these men, as far as I know of.... i do know that the day i had her sign the divorce papers, she did reach out via text to one of the 8 former lovers for support as she believe divorce was imminent and the marriage was over. i blew up over that and told her that was unexceptable.....if i was going to sit on the papers for 90 days, then NO CONTACT means NO CONTACT. she agreed to that

she revealed details about names, times, dates, ,locations, acts....etc.

ive read many of the articles on MB site, and other sites

i attended intensive therapy so i could learn how to manage the extreme thoughts and emotions that would become obsessive those few months after disclosure

what else should i be doing?

should i not be posting or participating on this site, unless ive agreed to adhere to the dogma of the site?

i posted to the infidelity/saa thread because i am trying to learn how to Survive an affair.....

am i doing this all wrong?

GettingInTune,

Sorry for your pain.

You should also find out who the spouses and girlfriends of these OM are and expose to them.

Your WW need to take a polygraph.

Gamma

gettingintune, it sounds like you have taken many of the right steps, however, it really is a waste of time for your wife to attend support meetings. Nor do marriage counselors have any idea how to save marriages. What is their plan? Typically it is to sit in a room and rehash tragic events, which just keeps you both angry and sad about the past. I do think it is a great idea for you to get counseling to help with your depression. Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, says that depression is the easiest thing to resolve.

My suggestion would be to focus entirely on taking steps to a) affair proof your marriage and b) create a romantic marriage with your wife. Anything else is a distraction. That will help alleviate your depression in addition to the anti-depressants and your counseling.

Now some questions.

Have YOU exposed her affairs?

Have you and your wife REMOVED all of her methods of having an affair? For example, has she got rid of her phone? Changed her email address? Removed all social media? Has she changed the environment that led to the affairs?

Can you go through the checklist below and tell us what has been done and how?

Because unless all that changes you will not be safe and you will not FEEL SAFE. In order for your feelings to change, HER BEHAVIOR MUST CHANGE.

You are spending too much time on therapy/counseling vs putting EPs in place. Have you removed social networking and access to the internet from her? Changed emails/phone numbers of whatever else was being used to meet these men? Have you exposed to your children? If not you should...they are old enough and I imagine it would be quite scary if they see you falling apart before their eyes. What have you told your children?

Given that her words are meaningless you should have a poly done. You have no idea if her admitted eight affairs is the real number or not. For all you know it could be double, triple or her cheating could go far back before 2013. Counseling and therapy will never give you these answers but maybe you don't care or want to know. Eight affairs would be a deal breaker for most people.


It's been over 90 days so did you tear up the divorce papers? That she contacted her lover in front of your face...amazes me that you would not sign them then and there. I understand your life as you knew it has been blown apart with your wife's adultery but the impression you give me is that you will stay with her no matter what happens.

You do realize you will have to babysit/monitor your serial cheating wife for life don't you?

Melody, I agree that the SLAA anonymous meetings are a waste of time for her. We've talked about those, and I don't insist she attend those any longer

in fact, its feeling like a waste of time for me to attend the S-anon meetings as well, and i rarely do these days.

re: .me EXPOSING her affairs?
are you asking if I have exposed the men she had affairs with to their friends, families and wives? ...No I have not.

I know Facebook pages for 4 of them. 3 of them are married. 2 of them seem to be serial cheaters. 1 of them is a self confessed sex addict, and fits Narcissistic Personality Disorder and has cheated on his wife for decades.

But, no I have NOT exposed their involvement with my wife to their families, friends or spouses

2 of the other men lay low on the online world so its like they are ghosts on the internet, but they also appear to be serial cheaters

1 of the other men is no longer living in the the country, moved to France w his wife and family..but again....seems to have a history of mistresses

the other is married and I don't know anything much about him other then where he works.

I'm reading the Exposure 101 article... so if I understand that correctly, the recommendation is to OUT their involvement publicly. Is that correct?

She still has her phone and same number, but is no longer on social media. She disabled the other computer accounts she used to make these connections as well. Our marriage counselor asked if I wanted her to change her phone number, and my response was, if she is going to decide to change, then she has to make the decision herself, and whether or not she has a different mail address or phone number, is no guarantee of her not starting up communication with any of those former lovers or new lovers.

Removing ALL methods of her having another affair? I am not in control of what she does. She drives to work. She has a job. She goes shopping. I know where she is as I track her phone. She calls if she is running late. Since the disclosure, I have no reason to believe that she has not been where she said she was, and no reason to believe she hasn't been doing what she says she'd been doing.

She hasn't been out for "girls night out" since the disclosure.. which was a cover for her activities. In fact, the only times she is out by herself would be shopping errands, going to work, or doing stuff w the kids.

We have been rebuilding our emotional and physical and romantic connection. doing things together...going on dates ... getting alone time by having someone watch the kids for an evening....

regarding the marriage therapist....our therapist isn't making us rehash the past.... her approach is "What do you want to do with the marriage? Do you want to end it or try to save it".....we opted to work on saving it....

right now, we are both being as honest with one another as to what each NEEDS from the other. What do I need from her...what does she need from me...what needs did we each feel were NOT being met pre affair.

As far as changing the environment that led to the affairs. Yes i believe that WE are both changing the environment that led to the affairs as we have very long , deep honest conversations daily about the situation, the 15 months, the 8 men, but also , we talk about what was going on in the relationship pre affair, and what was her perception pre affair, and what was my perception pre affair.

we have uncovered quite a lot of baggage and issues that we both had and repressed, and a lot of issues that we never death with or avoided and ignored.

one of the things that has changed in her environment is that she no longer associates with a former friend who was doing the same thing.... she is no longer part of a social relationship that condoned and encouraged infidelity.

Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

YES...full disclosure. she was very upfront and open..and answered all my questions multiple times

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

YES. she has made that commitment. she broke off all communication to her former lovers and to her friends that she was involved w that encouraged and supported that behavior

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

No. she never wrote letters to the 8 men, but she did either text or mail each of them saying "I have been found out. Do NOT contact me ever again" I have seen them messages. I have seen them in the sent mail folder. I know they were sent. I have verified the email addresses they were sent to

She deleted all contacts from phone and mail accounts so she no longer has immediate access to those addresses

She deleted all mail (after I made full backups up everything) so that there is no easy way for her to find the email and phone numbers for any of the 8 lovers


_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

2 of the men aren't from town. 1 isn't in the country. 1 she broke if off before I ever found out. she has taken precautions, yes.... are they extraordinary precautions? can you define extraordinary precautions? we aren't planning to move to a new house, city or state.. we are staying in our home.

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

she closed the social media accounts that i know about, and closed the mail account she used to make the connections,. she still has her normal emails account and work email account....i have no access to her work email account.

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

We know where each other are during the day. we know where each other go if we aren't together. we minimize the time we are not together. we have made an effort to spend more time together

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

as far as I can tell, no money was spent other then gas money for her trips to the rendevous

_____Spend leisure time together.

we spend more leisure time together then we have in years. we go out by ourselves for "dates" and entertainment....watch movies together, sit and talk over a glass of wine, have daily check ins on what each of us is thinking and feeling

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

at this point, i do not believe that is necessary

_____Avoid overnight separation.

i was out of town one night since dday and I know 100% she was at home taking care of our children

_____Allow technical accountability.

i have access to her mail accounts and phone and texts and check them, and make backups of her phone, so i can check/recover any deleted message.
at this point, there has been NO communication with any of the OPs other then the "do NOT contact me again" message

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
her family knows..parents and brothers
my family knows ..sister (my parents are dead)
one of her good friends knows
a handful of my friends knows
clergy is not an issue... we were not church goers, but I do have members of the clergy in my extended family and have talked to them about the situation

as far I believe, those who NEED to know about her activity, KNOW about her past activity.....

the only ones who don't know (as far as I am aware) are the spouses of the the men she was with between sept 2013-dec 2014

i appreciate your reply, respond and direction and help.

I'm just trying to understand the MB plan/process more

thank you

I would expose to the wives of these men where you are able. I would also make sure you have exposed her affairs to your own family and friends, including your children over age 4. This information should be factual, accurate and should come from you, not her.


Changing her # is a safeguard for you. You should not rely on a wayward to be in charge of the necessary precautions. This is a very basic extraordinary precaution. While it is no guarantee, it does guarantee that former lovers have no way to get ahold of her.

Your guarantee comes having spyware on everything so you can watch her.


You have every reason to not trust her. Blind trust is not a virtue, Sir. It is what leads to affairs. You should be tracking her every move in ways she is not aware.


Well, girls night out is not appropriate behavior for married people in the first place. That destructive activity should come off her list forever. All of your leisure time should be spent together anyway.


Perfect!!!! It takes 15 hours a week to maintain and 20-25 to CREATE romantic love. Dr. Harley recommends 4 - 4 hour dates. This is the KEY to saving your marriage. Without this step, this program does not work.

The time during those dates should be entirely devoted to meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment.


My point is that your MC does not have a PLAN to save your marriage. Sitting in a room talking does not save a marriage. Having and following a PLAN does. Very few marriages ever recover from infidelity for this reason. They may stay together but are a crippled version of the pre-affair marriage.

We can help you avoid this if you follow this PLAN.


With all due respect, none of that will save your marriage. Changing the environment means removing the MEANS she used to have her affairs, i.e.: computer, phone, nights out, etc. That means she changes her phone #, email address and eliminates her nights out.

Talking about the past won't save your marriage. We don't care about your perceptions. What we care about is that you change your CURRENT BEHAVIOR.


More time wasting.


Very good step!!! All enemies of your marriage should be given the boot.

Checklist for How Affairs Should End



Do any of these men live close by?


I would have her give you access to her work email account pronto. There should be some web based method or you can access it via an iPad.



We have a weekly schedule that we use at Marriage Builders. This step is so critical to the success of a marriage, that we sit down on Sunday afternoons and schedule our dates for the upcoming week using this worksheet. Time that is scheduled is much harder to put off. Couples who don't schedule it, tend to never get enough time and as a result, don't fall in love again. Any time that is spent watching movies, TV is not counted though. worksheet



This loophole should be closed. Having access to her devices will not stop OM from contacting her and that is what you need.


The only gap I see here is that the wives of these married men have not been informed. That is something I would resolve on your own. They need to be informed so they can protect themselves and their children from your wife and their husband. Some may need to get STD testing.


You have a great start and have made many of the right steps. I would strongly suggest you get 2 books, because they will help you immensely: Surviving an Affair and Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook. [they sell them cheap here or you can get them on amazon.com] You have have the added free resource of the MB radio program. Listening to that radio show will help you immensely. There is a free MB radio app that you can download on your phone.