Hello, I am brand new here and I am not sure if I am posting in the correct area so, please let me know if I am not.

Does anyone know of a good source (website or book) that discusses what different decisions / actions can mean from a physiological viewpoint? For example, why would my wife keep pictures of the guy she had an affair with (or other items), keep him as a face book friend and answer his texts / phone calls after SHE decided to end everything including the friendship?

I welcome anyone's opinion as long as it is constructive, but I am primarily looking for a source that is credible to educate myself.

Thank you in advance.

Welcome to MB.

Dr. Harley is the leading expert on recovering after an affair.

Get the book Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley.

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I will tell you why she keeps all those items and stays in contact with her affair partner. It is because she's never ended the affair and she is keeping the affair alive.

Hi DNC, welcome to Marriage Builders. The answer to your question is that she did not intend to end her affair. For example, if an alcoholic tells you they intend to stop drinking but they go to the bar every day and drink, how would you interpret their intentions? Wouldn't you, of course, conclude that they had no intention of quitting?

Your confusion stems from the fact that you are going by empty words instead of actions. That is a critical mistake. Talk means nothing in relation to affairs. Only actions count.

The key to saving your marriage is to a) first affair proof your marriage using the extraordinary precautions check list and b) creating a romantic relationship using these concepts. I will post the checklist for you.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Thank you all this far for your responses. I believe you all are correct, but of course she says differently. Let me expand incase it makes a difference. The guy she had this with has been a friend since high school. At the time of the affair in 2011, they had been friends for about 15 years. They were usually flirty and even made out one time that I know of in those 15 years, but never actually dated. Late 2010 / early 2011 things were rough between us and we both were not giving the other wha we needed. I remember this time clearly because I remember thinking divorce was looking like a real possibility. She turned to this guy for support and it turned into an emotional affair only (he lived out of state) until he came into town one time. She met up with him for dinner and drinks and ended up getting smashed and unable to drive home. I have has numerous conversations With this guy recently including texting him from her phone (all done with her full knowledge) pretending to be her and essentially baited him into sharing the details of what happened. He confirmed how drunk she was and a lot of the rest of her story. I have also had phone conversations with this guy and I believe that this was the only physical contact they had since we were married. Fast forward to a couple weeks ago. We were again having difficulties (not terribly serious) and I sensed there was something she was hiding. After pressing her for a few days she knew I knew something had happened and that the only way to move forward was to tell me. She asked if we can talk one night and that is when she came clean. Mostly clean anyway as she didn't tell me everything that night. Since the actual physical contact in 2011, they stayed in touch for a few months. Initially she admits she still wanted attention, but swears she never wanted anything more. She also says she was extremely regretful since day one, but kept in contact as she didn't want to loose a long time friend. Eventually she said she made a decision not to remain friends and in contact with him. I have gathered what emails and texts I can and for the most part that is true. He did contact her a handful of times over the years (all initiated by him that I can see), but she did respond and admittedly accepted a phone call once (20-30 convo. she thinks) last contact I know of was about 2 years ago. All of it that I can see was very platonic. We have had 2 kids in that time and overall good times. It hasn't all been roses, but some of our best times were in this period. Having said that she still has pictures on our computer of the night in question, the dress she was literally wearing when they had sex (never took it off) still facebook friends and his number in her phone. Also, in the weeks after the night they had sex she added a picture of them to her old phone so when he called the picture popped up. To be clear it was taken the night they had sex. Now that was in her old phone and not any new ones, but would someone who was truly regretful and living with this guilt for 4 years still have these things or keep avenues of contact open? Does the fact they were long time friends change anything?

No them being long time friends doesn't change a thing. Matter of fact, it makes it worse because you are allowing that to be an excuse for her remaining in contact with her OM.

Have you read what Dr. Harley says about opposite sex friendships?

Who all knows of her affair?

Is OM married?

What have you done on the list that ML posted to you?

Have you both been tested for STDs?

DNC, the fact that they were "friends" for a long time makes no difference. They are not "friends" and have not been for a very long time. Her affair will continue in varying degrees in the future unless and until you take a more serious approach. The only way to protect you from endless repeats is for her to never have anything to do with him again.

What she is doing is the equivalent of an alcoholic changing the name of his drinks to "business drinks" and pretending to be sober while going into the bar every day. The end result is that she goes on the occasional drunk because she is perpetually tempted. This is why alcoholics stay out of bars. This explains why the only solution is complete abstinence. Every time she sees him on Facebook, his pictures, etc, her feelings will be triggered.

Your only hope is for her to end contact for life. You can do that by insisting she cut off contact and by running this piece of crap off.

Is he married?

Couple of questions:

1. are you married?

2. how long?

3. any children? how old?

I want to assure you that the reason she has affairs is not because of you. It is because she is extremely poor boundaries around men. As long as that is the case, she will always have affairs. You can meet her needs 100% and never have any difficulties again, but as long as business is open to other men, she will have affairs. This won't be the last one, I assure you.

Here read this.

The Risk of Opposite-sex Friendships in Marriage

Answering a few questions.

1. He was not married at the time, but was in a relationship. He is married now and when he thought he was texting my wife a couple weeks ago agreed to "have sex" again. I called him from my wife's phone and once he realized it was me he quickly changed his mind. Imagine that! Since then he has been pretty cooperative in giving me information and his version of what took place. I essentially " interviewed" him and my wife separately in order to more likely get an accurate picture of what happened. For the most part, things matched up. None the less, his wife now knows he agreed to secretly see my wife and keep it on the "down low".

2. I am married and have been for 8.5 year.

3. We have two small children (2 years old) whom we both love dearly. This of course makes it much more difficult.

FYI. Now that I know and they both know I know ending further contact is not a problem. I just wish she would have cut off any possible contact and get rid anything that could trigger memories before I got involved as I don't know when if ever she would have done it on her own.

Also, my wife has voluntarily started counseling and I believe she is extremely regretful now. But none if this that has occurred since I found out helps me gauge her state of mind before, in the months after the "physical" part of the affair or after she supposedly ended the friendship. I know what she tells me, but these other things I previously said tells me something different. Obviously it's hard for me to believe her. I really want to know where her head was at different key points in life like when we decided to start trying for kids again and to be able to see something that illustrates how regretful she was immediately after.

Dnc, I would expect the affair to continue until you expose it. Please go read my exposure thread linked in my signature. It will enable you to turn this around.

Very sorry to hear she is in counseling because that will make it harder to save this.

Will you expose her affair?

Will she write a NC Letter and let you send it?

Will she change all contact information?

How do you know that the OMBW knows that he was going to meet your WW for sex?

The affair is exposed to those we are comfortable telling.

I believe she will do anything I ask of her.

I Believe the other guys wife knows because she responded to a text I sent him. I wasn't positive it was actually her on the other end until he called me back that night. At least there was another girl with him who acted like a hurt wife. I guess it's possible it was someone else, but I doubt it. They did however send me old emails and facebook messages. For the Facebook messages he even videoed the screen so I could see both him searching by my wife's name and the results. All that leads me to believe the woman who I heard speaking was actually his wife. She was visibly upset and disappointed in him. I do not excuse his actions at all and they were certainly wrong, but I do not believe the emotional affair was two sided. I don't think feelings were involved on his side. He did take advantage of the situation though and I will kick his [censored] if I ever see him!

Why is my wife Seeking therapy a bad thing of us?

Did you read the exposure thread?

What has been done on this list?

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Did you read who Dr. Harley says the affair should be exposed to?

You need to contact her yourself and have a conversation with her. I would strongly suggest you call or visit the woman in person and give her all the evidence. She needs to know the full truth. This is in all your best interest so she can be on alert from her end. She doesn't have the truth unless it came from you.


Secondly, your close family and friends need to know. Keep in mind, our goal is not to make you "feel comfortable," but to save your marriage. The more people who know, the more people to hold them accountable and support your marriage. You do yourself and your wife NO FAVORS by not exposing. That hurts you both.


An affair is always "two sided." There may be different reasons for entering the affair, but an affair is an affair.


I will explain why. First off, it is a distraction at a critical time in your marriage. It takes valuable attention away from your struggling marriage. If the Titanic is sinking, do you go off to counseling to discuss your childhood, or do you right the ship?

Independent counselors [IC's] serve to help their clients achieve PERSONAL goals, versus marital goals. Since they have no earthly idea about the dynamics of an affair they don't understand the FOG that comes with the addiction. As such, they help their client achieve destructive goals that are based on a very TEMPORARY state of mind. For example, would you help a falling down drunk achieve his "goals" while bombed? Because that is what an IC does, at the expense of the marriage. They validate marriage wrecking ideas because their goal is NOT to save the marriage, but to help the fogged out wayward achieve personal desires.

What often happens is the IC will suggest that the wayward spouse "get some space" to "clear her mind" to see what she really wants. We have had many IC's recommend that the cheater stay in touch with the affair partner for various reasons. We have dealt with such destructive advice from "counselors" for years around here and it is doubly hard to undo that reckless advice when it comes from a "counselor" and just happens to be what the wayward wanted to hear.